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District of Columbia to become a state....kind of - 2/6/2009 8:36:04 AM   
slaveboyforyou


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I read this in my local paper today from George Will.  It's interesting. 

http://daily-journal.com/archives/dj/display.php?id=434947

quote:


WASHINGTON -- One answer is: Six rows of stars -- the top, third and fifth rows with nine, the second, fourth and sixth rows with eight. The question is: How might the nation reconfigure its flag to acknowledge a 51st state. Or "state."
The question is pertinent, or would be were Congress inclined to adhere to the Constitution. Both the House and Senate are moving toward pretending, as part of a disgraceful bargain with Utah, that the District of Columbia is a state.
The D.C. House Voting Rights Act will give the District a full voting member in the House of Representatives. The problem is, or should be, that although the Constitution has provisions that allow various interpretations, the following is not one of those provisions: The House shall be composed of members chosen "by the people of the several states."

But the District is not a state. It is (as the Constitution says in Article I, Section 8) "the seat of the government of the United States." That is why, in 1978, the District's advocates sent to the states a constitutional amendment requiring that "for purposes of representation" the district would be "treated as though it were a state." Only 16 states ratified it, 22 short of the required number. So the District's advocates decided that an amendment is unnecessary -- a statute will suffice because the Constitution empowers Congress "to exercise exclusive legislation" over the District. They argue that this power can be used to, in effect, amend the Constitution by nullifying Article I, Section 2's requirement that House members come from "the several states." This argument, that Congress' legislative power trumps the Constitution, means that Congress could establish religion, abridge freedom of speech and of the press and abolish the right of peaceful assembly in the District.

And, of course, Congress next could give the District two senators. Which probably is the main objective of the Democrats who are most of the supporters of this end run around the Constitution. In the 12 elections since the District acquired, by constitutional amendment, the right to allocate presidential electoral votes, it has never cast less than 74.8 percent of its popular vote for the Democratic presidential candidate. That amendment, the 23rd, stipulates that the District shall allocate the number of electoral votes to which it would be entitled "if it were a state." If.
Senate passage of the D.C. House Voting Rights Act is assured, partly because under the Act's terms, Utah, which has two Republican senators, will be awarded a fourth House seat. The state came close to qualifying for a fourth after the 2000 census and, because it is growing like Jack's beanstalk, would have been awarded a fourth after the 2010 census. But why wait for 2012? The Constitution, that cobweb, is all that stands between Utah and instant gratification. So for the first time in 96 years, the size of the House will be permanently increased, by two members, to 437. Last year, as a senator, Barack Obama supported the act, so when it flutters onto his desk, he will sign it, although a veto would seem to be required by the recent oath he swore to defend the Constitution from threats, presumably including Congress.

Still, a freshly minted adjective describes this unseemly handing out, like party favors, of seats in the national legislature: Blagojevichian. He had an unsavory plan for filling one Senate seat for a while. Congress has an anti-constitutional plan for creating two Senate seats and one in the House forever.
When the first modification of the nation's flag was occasioned by the admission to the union of Vermont and Kentucky in 1791 and 1792, respectively, Congress stipulated that the flag have 15 stars -- and 15 stripes. But by the time the second modification was ordered, in 1818, there were 20 states. It was clear -- because of Manifest Destiny, "Westward the course of empire takes its way," etc. -- that the flag was going to resemble the necktie displays nowadays at Brooks Brothers (founded in 1818) -- too many stripes. So the flag went back to 13 stripes, and only stars have proliferated.

When the 51st star is added for the District, Congress should make at least a limited nod to the Constitution by stipulating that the star be bracketed by quotation marks, or have over it a small asterisk. This would be a way of saying: "As if it were a state." - George Will


I am in total agreement with George Will on this.  The Constitution is being completely ignored.  All of this is passing quietly under the radar, and it should provoke outrage. 

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 2/6/2009 8:45:51 AM >
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RE: District of Columbia to become a state....kind of - 2/6/2009 9:06:27 AM   
aravain


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~FR~

I agree entirely. I would support a ratification brought by the people of D.C. for them to be considered a state (a full fledged one, actually), and I think now-a-days it'd actually be passed.

But completely ignoring the constitution on this matter is disgraceful.

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RE: District of Columbia to become a state....kind of - 2/6/2009 11:23:44 AM   
DomKen


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D.C. should be a state or it's residents should not be required to pay federal taxes. Taxation without representation is something we fought a war over 233 years ago.

As to Utah since it is in violation of it's agreement with the Congress that was the basis for its admission as a state it should be returned to territory status and a governor should be appointed by Congress until such time as Utahans will obey the first ammendment.

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RE: District of Columbia to become a state....kind of - 2/6/2009 11:31:57 AM   
Nikitaa


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If DC become state then Porto Rico should become starte. This makes 52 stars and is easier to make new flag. I saw picture of 52 star flag and it looks okay.

Maybe instead of making Porto Rico a state America should let DC replace a state. Maybe remove California. CNN says California going bankrupt. California pretends they are their own private country so they not mind.

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RE: District of Columbia to become a state....kind of - 2/6/2009 11:44:43 AM   
slaveboyforyou


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Well Puerto Rico has been offered statehood many times.  The majority of the residents have declined.  D.C. is a different matter.  D.C. is our capital; it's not a state for many good reasons.  But that's not the problem in this case.  The Constitution is being completely bi-passed.  You can't have a voting representative in the House unless you are a State.  Utah can't have an extra congressman before the census determines they have enough to allow that.  It's the law, and they're completely ignoring it.  As Will said, Obama is sure to sign this.  It's a payoff to the D.C. interest groups for their loyal support.  However, they had to get a compromise to avoid scrutiny.  So they threw Utah Republicans a bone.  It's not a Democrat or Republican issue.  It's a violation of the law, and they're going to get away with it. 

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RE: District of Columbia to become a state....kind of - 2/6/2009 11:47:29 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikitaa

If DC become state then Porto Rico should become starte. This makes 52 stars and is easier to make new flag. I saw picture of 52 star flag and it looks okay.

Maybe instead of making Porto Rico a state America should let DC replace a state. Maybe remove California. CNN says California going bankrupt. California pretends they are their own private country so they not mind.



District of Columbia
American Samoa
Guam
Puerto Rico
Northern Marianas
Baker Island
Howland Island
Jarvis Island
Kingman Reef
Midway Islands
Navassa Island
Palau
Palmyra Atoll
U.S. Virgin Islands
Wake Island
Micronesia

Bring em on. I have a few more states I'd like to replace!

Firm

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 2/6/2009 11:48:08 AM >


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RE: District of Columbia to become a state....kind of - 2/6/2009 1:36:03 PM   
aravain


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If I understand correctly they're taxed as residents of VA, not DC...

then again, High School US Government was LOOOOOONG ago (and I didn't pay much attention to that part of the class)

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RE: District of Columbia to become a state....kind of - 2/6/2009 2:16:22 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aravain

If I understand correctly they're taxed as residents of VA, not DC...

then again, High School US Government was LOOOOOONG ago (and I didn't pay much attention to that part of the class)


They don't get to vote for congressmen or senators from VA. They only get to vote for a non voting representative to congress. Anyway if D.C. were to be made part of a state it would Maryland. The Virginia half of the district was returned to VA many years ago.

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RE: District of Columbia to become a state....kind of - 2/6/2009 2:25:40 PM   
Vendaval


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Fast Reply -
 
There is a movement within Washington D.C. for statehood.  The issues concerning this are listed here -

http://grc.dc.gov/grc/cwp/view,a,3,q,461422.asp

One of the main issues is the same as DomKen mentioned, namely representation and taxation.

"The District is the only political and geographical entity within the United States whose citizens bear the responsibilities of government without sharing in the appropriate privileges of government.

District residents bear all the burden of citizenship, but do not share the most cherished right of citizenship—full representation in the Congress. In addition to paying federal taxes, District residents also pay local taxes, and are subject to all the laws of the United States as well as treaties made with foreign governments.

The United States is the only nation in the world with a representative, democratic constitution that denies voting representation in the national legislature to the citizens of the capital."



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RE: District of Columbia to become a state....kind of - 2/6/2009 2:35:49 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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Ven, D.C was not supposed to have 600K+ people living in it.  The founders had a good reason for seperating the capital from the states; they did not want one state having more influence over the Federal government than the rest.  It is a choice to live in Washington D.C.  No one forces anyone to live there.  But that's not the point of this thread.  If Washington D.C. residents want the full rights of other states, they have to become a state.  We have a process for that spelled out in the Constitution.  You can not circumvent that process, and that is what's being done.  Utah is doing the same thing.  You can't add a House seat until the Census has determined a state is qualified to have it.  They are going around the law.  The law is what keeps this country together.  You can't make exceptions; it goes against the entire idea of equality under the law. 

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 2/6/2009 2:37:24 PM >

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RE: District of Columbia to become a state....kind of - 2/6/2009 2:46:35 PM   
Vendaval


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Hold on there, slaveboy.  I am not recommending breaking the law but rather saying that the citizens of D.C. have several legitimate concerns and those should be addressed. 
 
Would you please elaborate on why the capital was not made a state originally?

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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
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RE: District of Columbia to become a state....kind of - 2/6/2009 3:15:58 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

Would you please elaborate on why the capital was not made a state originally?


Vendeval, that is a broad subject.  A lot of reasons exist for it; I mentioned one of them.  The primary reason had to do with an incident that happened in 1783.  The original governing body of the U.S. was the Congress of the Confederation.  It met in Philadelphia in 1783.  Veterans of the Revolutionary War wanted to be compensated, and they met outside the Congress's meeting making threats.  The Congress asked the Governor of Philadelphia (edited to say Pennsylvania...oops) to call out the militia to intervene.  The Governor was sympathetic to their cause, and he refused.  The Congress had to flee, and that was remembered. 

James Madison wrote about a need for a district where the Federal Government could protect itself.  Debates occurred about where to place this district, but I won't go into that.  It is a broad topic in and of itself.  It was decided on, and it was established.  No state should have sovereignty over the Federal capitol.  It's not hard to understand why a state having that power would be bad. 

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 2/6/2009 3:26:35 PM >

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RE: District of Columbia to become a state....kind of - 2/6/2009 3:18:03 PM   
Vendaval


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SlaveBoy, thank you very much.  You can learn something new here every day. 

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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


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RE: District of Columbia to become a state....kind of - 2/6/2009 8:13:38 PM   
Nikitaa


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First. My bad for misspelling Puerto Rico so poorly. I blame firefox 3 spell check. I spelled Purto and firefox changed to Porto. ???

Why can not DC become part of Virgina? Why can not DC become city in Virgina?

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RE: District of Columbia to become a state....kind of - 2/7/2009 6:11:03 AM   
DesFIP


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When D.C. was planned, it was thought that only governmental types who were represented in their home communities would be in part time residence there. Obviously people forgot that governmental types require support staff who are there full time. Since it is a full community of full time residents, they do need representation. Perhaps reduce the D.C. area to the few blocks including the White House and the Congress, and return the rest to Maryland and Virginia?

And has been said, Puerto Rico tends to be evenly divided when it comes up to voting. Half want independence and half want statehood with the result that it stays stuck at it's present status.

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RE: District of Columbia to become a state....kind of - 2/7/2009 12:58:47 PM   
aravain


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In any case, I agree that they need representation.

However, I also agree (and assert) that they need to go about regaining it LEGALLY by *BECOMING A STATE*. This takes a process of ratification by all the other states! I know that, were they to start the process I would immediately write my Senators, Representatives, and Governor in favor of it.

As it is I've written my Senators with displeasure and requests to strike this down.

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