RE: bonus cap (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid



Message


Sanity -> RE: bonus cap (2/5/2009 6:45:44 AM)


It's fun to watch you ignore video. Tremendously entertaining! [:D]

corysub posts video that clearly backs him up word for word - and you come back essentially with an "Un-unhhhh."

Yeah huh.


quote:

Simply posting a link does not mean it is factual or nothing more than an opinion piece.









housesub4you -> RE: bonus cap (2/5/2009 7:03:18 AM)

Whatever...

Just like you and he both choose to ignore any video or article which shows the GOP in a negative fashion.  Gee just look in the search mode and see how often you both have done that.

There is enough of this BS on here all ready, no need to feed the those with who only listen to their own point of view.







Owner59 -> RE: bonus cap (2/5/2009 7:22:57 AM)

 

It was Phil (Americans are whiners)Gramm who got the law changed that erased the line separating speculative investing and banking.It was bush who allowed(over 8 long years)financial houses to leverage money,30/1.

That law protected us for the last 60 years and helped to insure safety and stability.The very safety and stability that foundationed and facilitated the strongest economy in the world.Those laws were there to stop happening what that caused the Great Depression and were supposed to stop things like the pressent mess.

Before Gramm got that law changed,banks could`t gamble with their depositor`s money.The government never meant that FDIC insured deposits would be used to make highly speculative,high gain/high risk investments.

That ass clown Gramm was slated to be McCain`s Secretary of the Treasury.Strange,fucked up and outrageous but true.Thank God, he is not.

It was under the cons that money was leveraged 30 to fucking one.Under them,financial houses were borrowing 30 dollars, with one dollars`s worth of security.That`s over the top.

Go try borrowing 30,000 bucks from a bank with a thousand dollars in collateral.See how far you get.Yet they were doing this very thing for each other and with conservative blessings and zero oversight.

It`s one thing to be for and implement sensible de-regulation.It`s quite another to let the hogs run wild with no oversight and no enforcement of existing rules as bush and the "let the ~~MARKET~~decide" neo-conservatives did.

These crooks were being watched and overseen by crooks.

I would like what happened to the communist and separatists parties(in the US) happen to the neo-conservatives.Complete shunning and banishment from the political world(in any real sense).Relegated to the garbage pile of failure and shame.Any one connected to them should be barred(figuratively) from public life and not even given a pair of scissors,let alone our financial well being.

We can never again allow them into the seats of power and/or near our financial instruments, ever again.Our financial well being and survival depends on good,sound,adequate oversight,rules and regulation.Neo-conservatives are an anathema to those important checks on greed and maleficence.

WW I wasn`t called WWI, until WWII happened.It was called the Great War,among other things.

Neo-cons should slink away and pray that the name Great Depression, doesn`t turn into the "1st" Great Depression.




Lucylastic -> RE: bonus cap (2/5/2009 7:23:24 AM)

I just thought I would throw this into the mix,
When times were good, the top executives from the largest U.S. banks made a mint. Below is the total compensation in 2007 for the 9 banks that received the first batch of government aid through TARP. http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/storysupplement/ceopay/index.html

Goldman Sachs paid out 321.9 million to 5 people??? For what?
half a billion on the top 12 failures in 1 year!!!

obscene obscene obscene.

Call me a leftie commie pinko lame ass, call me uneducated and that Im special ed material, call me whatever you please, but it IS obscene and nothing anybody, especially the rabid frothers can say will convince me other wise.
I think every politician of every colour/red/blue/libertarian/independent should go thru the new vetting process. yeah I know  it would cost millions,   it certainly seems to bring out some skeletons tho.
Its change, ...wether good or bad, time will tell.

Lucy





Owner59 -> RE: bonus cap (2/5/2009 8:05:55 AM)

When Obama held a news conference to complain and point this out(billion dollar bonuses to TARP/bailout money recipients)last week,we had posters here twisting his words and calling him a socialist!

And it`s not just here.The GOP leadership is doing everything they can to scuttle the recovery/jobs plan and voted 100%  against it.

How is the man going to get anywhere with that level of willful ignorance and bad faith?




kdsub -> RE: bonus cap (2/5/2009 8:50:12 AM)

One of these days someone will uncover the hidden true masters of the world...you know the evil hidden ones behind the scenes manipulating business and politics...Most often called the Boogiemen. What a bunch of crap

I know the bogie mans name...GREED.

Forget about whose fault it was...lets just be sure the future will not be our fault.

Obama realizes he must save our financial institutions in spite of their greed. But to do this he must walk a fine line politically. His electorate are pissed…many have lost jobs and life savings and homes. They are looking to him for help and justice.

At the same time panhandling business is taking billions from hard working financially stressed citizens, then awarding themselves millions in bonuses. Partying like Christmas is every day of the year.

He had to do something…I think he has made the right decision… it has already had some good results.

One financial institution that was taking our money decided to give it back when Obama set the limits. To me this says they did not need it in the first place and where stealing that money from me.

If they can’t function under the rules laid down by their chief investor…US... then go out of business… Another better-run business will buy up the assets and do a better job.

Butch




corysub -> RE: bonus cap (2/5/2009 8:52:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

Conservatives find the news sources that support their point of view as do the Liberals.  Simply posting a link does not mean it is factual or nothing more than an opinion piece.

The sad fact is, in truth no one gets the whole story.  The news media feeds us what creates viewers so they can sell ad space. 

Finding the truth has little to do with modern day media, it's all about creating a buzz to generate veiwers.

Each party creats a spin to keep everyone confused instead of answering questions directly. 


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excuse me..but the video I linked showed Republican Baker calling for tighter regulation of the GSE's, while the democrats on the "oversight commitee" beat up the people of the members of the board that were giving testimony because they submitted a report to Congress that warned of the dangerous activities of FannieMae and FreddieMac and where that might lead to extreme speculation and risk in the housing market.

Instead of taking the advice of these people, Barney Frank, Maxine Waters, Gergory Meeks, Lacy Clay and the rest of the democrats on the commitee spoke of the wonderful job the heads of FNM and FRE were doing...while at the same time accepting hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from these organizations. 

If you call the words of Barney and company as an "opinion piece"...it sure was a bad opinion.  And now they try to come off so high and mighty to "protect the American people"....gimme a break...Anyone beyond the sophmore year can see through this bullshit...

Today the Senate might actually pass the "Pelosi Spending Bill" and the problems that causes are going to be felt by all of us...democrats, liberals, independents...whatever. Everyone that is but those people working in your government, owners of companies with "friends in Congress" who get contracts,
and Governors of States who are going to get our tax dollars to bail them out of their own irresponsible decisions on Medicaid funding, care for the aged, and infrastructure repair.  

When you are on a breadline or collecting unemployment insurance the person
A hungry stomach doesn't have a political affiliation.  My family lived throught the 1930's and having bread and cocoa for dinner is not my idea of a good time.

Here is another "opinion piece" as you put it....that shows the familial relationship between the liberal democratic wingnuts and FannieMae.  How does the song go..
"We are Family......." 
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0

We all have a certain finite number of days in this life...days to grow...study....work hard...build something...provide for our families...and put a little away for rainy days and retirement.  This Obama government that gives  liberals chills up their legs says..."fuck you"....you made too much, you have too much...people don't have what you have..."we won" and we are going to take it away from you and give your earnings from your days of work, sweat and tears to people who don't have what you have for whatever reason." And if they made stupid decisions, like buying a house they could not afford, "we are going to take some of your money to bail them out because..well..because they deserve it and you have so much"!! 
 
"And if you bitch too much we don't care...we will just leave the White House for an afternoon and visit ten year olds at school." 
                       
 




corysub -> RE: bonus cap (2/5/2009 9:20:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub
They got us into this mess and now they can't even get a stimulus Bill right withhout trying to load it up with pork and waste.  


Hold your horses there, pardner.  The Democratic leadership didn't get us to where we are today.  This has been building up for decades, through both D and R administrations and congresses.  Greed got us into this mess.  Investors wanted double-digit returns, Wall Street created them, and none of the people making the money stopped to think about the fact that high returns go hand in hand with high risk, or that double-digit returns were not sustainable.  It was called the IBG theory of investing - I'll Be Gone.  They were chasing profits and forgetting the fundamentals of what makes the market work.

It amazes me that so many folks want to patch up the holes and get right back to that kind of thing. 


No question todays real estate disaster was decades in the making..it goes back to the Carter era and the Community Investment Act of 1977.  I am fully aware of the time this cancer has been allowed to fester and grow in our economy.  Democrats, however, are the party that forced "social changes" through legislation.  You might rmember the hearings Congress held threatening the banks because they were not giving loans to people who could not afford to pay them. The term was "red lining" districts.  It was Mr. Obama actually that was lead lawyer in one of those cases in Illinois.  Activists would physically break into bank offices and intimidate management people...truly the American way that may be coming again in this age of "Change"...

So the banks started writing these loans...but their capital could only support a certain number of transactions.  Congress found the answer...they just made the regulation of FannieMae and FreddieMac more lax..and even those where not enforced as a previous posting tried to show with video's of democrat Congresspeople attacking regulators for their negative report on the GSE's.

The demand world wide for safe, high returns is tremendous, and so the banks underwrote and sold this paper in bundles and to Fannie Mae and FreddieMac,
and the multi-trillion dollar ponzi scheme was on it's way.

Prior to all this bullshit...you had to put 10 or 20% down on a house.  Now, heck,
zero down, interest only, ARM's..etc etc...EVERYONE living, and some dead as well, could get a mortgage.  I wasn't being facitious..mortgages were actually written in the names of dead people in Ohio.
Look..there is a lot of blame to go around.. but a lot of people tried to give warnings, including McCain and that awful George Bush..but they were drowned out.

Increased interest rates destroyed the game and it was "check and mate" for the housing industry....

It is just annoying, to say the least...to see a guy like Barney Frank so full of pompus arrogance, denouncing the banks when he himself was intimately involved in this process...and got some TARP money for a bank in his district under criminal investigation.. 

Liberals are always so "full of sound and fury" but not much that makes common sense.  Just put on C-Span and listen to the debate on the Pelosi Plan in the Senate.  It can make you sick so have a plastic bag handy.




slvemike4u -> RE: bonus cap (2/5/2009 9:51:12 AM)

Cory you're a comedic genius,who but you could tie the word irresponsible to spending on Medicaid,care for the aged and infrastructure repair.Priceless....you ought to take your act on the road.
I'm sure you would be a big hit in Ohio and Michigan




Owner59 -> RE: bonus cap (2/5/2009 10:35:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

One of these days someone will uncover the hidden true masters of the world...you know the evil hidden ones behind the scenes manipulating business and politics...Most often called the Boogiemen. What a bunch of crap

I know the bogie mans name...GREED.

Forget about whose fault it was...lets just be sure the future will not be our fault.

Obama realizes he must save our financial institutions in spite of their greed. But to do this he must walk a fine line politically. His electorate are pissed…many have lost jobs and life savings and homes. They are looking to him for help and justice.

At the same time panhandling business is taking billions from hard working financially stressed citizens, then awarding themselves millions in bonuses. Partying like Christmas is every day of the year.

He had to do something…I think he has made the right decision… it has already had some good results.

One financial institution that was taking our money decided to give it back when Obama set the limits. To me this says they did not need it in the first place and where stealing that money from me.

If they can’t function under the rules laid down by their chief investor…US... then go out of business… Another better-run business will buy up the assets and do a better job.

Butch


True, Butch.

Greed is baked into the cake.

It`s hard wired into us and a known quantity.It`s written into the business plan and a natural part of being human.

That`s why there`s rules,......regulations,......fiduciary responsibility and professional peer review,oversight and auditing to counter these things that we know are there.

We can`t do business if the basic pillars and precepts are ignored or spat on.We can`t have confidence in the capitalist system if the folks running it aren`t acting in good faith.

And we can`t just hope they will act in good faith .

The "market" isn`t going to correct itself either,at least not before an avoidable mess like the present one happens 1st.

Great post,as always.




missfrillypants -> RE: bonus cap (2/5/2009 10:49:55 AM)

it doesn't matter to me who's spearheading this bill, democrats or republicans, conservative christians or communists. what matters to me is common sense, the kind of thing that any schoolchild can see. the problem in my opinion is that so many people are still brainrinsed into being wet their pants terrified of any whiff of socialism, because before you know it they're going to be building a huge wall around the whole united states and demanding that you work for nothing but potatoes and cheap liquor!

picture it this way so you can think logically instead of turning this into a mccarthyist witch hunt:

a friend of yours has a small business selling things online which was very successful ten years ago but hasn't been doing very well lately, so they go to you and ask you for a large loan in order to keep their company going and promise that as soon as they get back to normal. they do this several times, always saying that they're desperate for money and promising that this will be the last time. however, you discover that not only are they spending large portions of the money you loaned them on personal luxury expenses such as going to bars and on vacation and buying very expensive new toys, at the same time, they are not making any effort to change their business practices in order to take into account that people's buying habits and tastes in their product have changed, and they pretty much keep doing everything the same way they did ten years ago. and then a couple of their employees who have been laid off due to cutbacks come to you, also asking for money to feed their families until they can find new jobs, although it may be some time until they can do so because unemployment is so high.

are you going to keep loaning them money? if, say, the person who previously had your job had signed a legally binding contract to loan them more money which your own business had to fullfill, aren't you going to do everything in your power to make damned sure that they spend that money on their business and whip it into shape?




housesub4you -> RE: bonus cap (2/5/2009 10:53:44 AM)

"And if you bitch too much we don't care...we will just leave the White House for an afternoon and visit ten year olds at school."  
                     

You're talking about Bush right????  I mean he did take more vacation time and spend more time away from the White House than any president ever.


I'm sure you will find some way to blame this on Obama also.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090205/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/bailout_oversight




Jeptha -> RE: bonus cap (2/5/2009 10:57:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I just thought I would throw this into the mix,
When times were good, the top executives from the largest U.S. banks made a mint. Below is the total compensation in 2007 for the 9 banks that received the first batch of government aid through TARP. http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/storysupplement/ceopay/index.html

Goldman Sachs paid out 321.9 million to 5 people??? For what?
half a billion on the top 12 failures in 1 year!!!

obscene obscene obscene....
I agree with you.
I think the fundamental problem is that some consider freedom to mean that any favor one can garner legally is self-evidently ethically just.
In fact, the very fact that you were able to do it legally makes it right.

Having money (as long as it was gained legally) becomes evidence of virtue in and of itself.

Any ideas of regulation via "ethical" arguments are unamerican and the first slide down the long slope to nationalism, etc.




Mercnbeth -> RE: bonus cap (2/5/2009 12:04:42 PM)

~ Fast Reply ~
 
You better hope 'Greed' continues and has a place in the economy of the US. Without it, you don't have an economy.

People with enough money to live pretty comfortably for the rest of their lives, their children's lives, and hell, their children's great grandchildren too; will keep their money to themselves. They'll move, they'll bunker, just like what you see happening in CA. 'Greed' keeps this money 'in play'. 'Greed' insures that the guy with the good idea, can go to one of these people with money and start a business. 'Greed'

Many on this board see no 'Greed' involved in what's being shoved down our throats under the guise of 'saving the economy'. They are saving nothing - they are killing it. That doesn't mean there is no 'greed involved. Their 'greed' goes beyond money. The greed is for power and control. The greed is to fulfill the goal of having the government decide how much you will make. It's the start of a process that has a predictable future of government 'greed' deciding where and how you'll live, and, who knows - what you eat. All for 'good intent' - but 'greed' for ultimate control is the motivation.

Obviously our bureaucrats already think they know better than anybody else. Democratic notions are already being discounted. Look no further to the democratic vote regarding Prop 8 in CA. It is not accepted. It has been called wrong. It isn't 'right'; and there are a number of efforts to have it turned over against the democratic process that occurred in November. And most here would support that effort. You've been trained well.

The powers that be want more power. They'll get it too based upon the this veneer of understanding most have exhibited. It takes more than a one sided political party perspective.

Some very basic questions haven't even been asked let alone answered.

How can anyone possibly considering hiring 600,000 new government employees when income is down and losses are mounting? Why is there absolutely NO cut in the bureaucracy and employees in the 'stimulus package'? Why is it that not one of these 'executives'; elected or appointed for life, being required to cut their salary, benefits, expenses, and 'marketing trips'?

Why is this possible?
quote:

ALBANY -- As he tells it, Randall Hinton is paid $93,803 a year to do nothing.He spends much of his workday at the State Insurance Fund donning headphones, listening to rock 'n' roll, blues or classical tunes and his superiors are cool with that. Source: http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=767070 


Why is it that in CA where the State is bankrupt and any tax refund coming in the form of an IOU; saying that an additional $1,400/family of four taxes are necessary to bridge the budget gap, while not cutting back one employee and not curtailing their 14 paid holidays?

You want the market to 'correct' itself in a day? Cut government employment and every department budget 10% across the board. Trash this Trillion dollar pork package. Let the failures - fail and get out of the way of successful, 'GREEDY' people willing to invest in the future; instead of sending money to create a country where everyone left, fails equally.

The government is using your fear to manipulate you into a world where you believe you can not survive without the government. So its not a war in Iraq, but didn't we hear this warning before?
quote:

President Barack Obama warned on Thursday that failure to act on an economic recovery package could plunge the nation into a long-lasting recession that might prove irreversible, a fresh call to a recalcitrant Congress to move quickly.
Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090205/ap_on_go_pr_wh/congress_stimulus_126  


You don't think this is about 'greed'? Same as money - it is a "zero sum game". However unlike money, power is much harder to transfer. What better way to obtain it than to have desperate citizens demanding to give it to you!




came4U -> RE: bonus cap (2/5/2009 1:02:35 PM)

Is this bill for private investment companies or other???

Why are banks *which are private corporations being held hostage like this?

The whole thing seems ridiculous.  If CEO's decide who is being paid what amount then shareholders should be notified but honestly, if they don't like it, sell your shares., get out while the going is good.

Thank God none of these reactive measures have reached here.  The general public should have no say (nor *especially does governement) in the charge of distribution of capital wealth amoung any certain company. Once a corporation reaches out to the governement and taxpayers that is their onus to give forthright information...bad move, they now open themselves open to state regulation. 

Soon, extreme governement involvement would even impact the small business owner into non existance (by regulation).  

The whole thing is the result of anyone with shares not keeping tabs on details of the extreme upper management practices.  Thinking that a mere profit of $40./month on their statement (or employee statement) is enough to qualify for a 'satisfactory' invenstment without even doing/knowing the math or investing the time to attend shareholder meetings/confronting issues is their own downfall.

The 'blinded by the Caribbian sun' leading the 'blinded by fluorscent factory lights' is a typical lazy way of doing business to most folks. 

Make your buck, don't research, don't voice, don't penetrate company policies, proceedures and publicly available (fiscally) CEO/top branch finacial statements.......atta boy, now ya broke.

Too bad, so sad, too late.










NorthernGent -> RE: bonus cap (2/5/2009 1:27:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090204/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bailout_executive_pay

...well, this is all very interesting. i'm sure that some, like me, will welcome this. i'm equally sure that some wil see this as a precursor to the end of the American way of life. To the latter group, why do you think that?



I'm not in favour of salary/bonus caps, but I am in favour of good corporate governance, which should be an incentive toward good practice rather than law enforcement. Corporate governance is intended to ensure execs' bonuses and salaries are declared; consequently, investors can make an informed decision as to whether or not they want to invest in a business that favours execs to the detriment of all other stakeholders. The idea is to encourage self-regulation.

Good corporate governance was conspicuous by its absence in our banks' operations, which is why we are in the dark on who was being paid what and on the nature of the problem.




NorthernGent -> RE: bonus cap (2/5/2009 1:30:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

I always was afraid that Obama's lack of business experience and radical liberal training would cause him to do some stupid things during his Presidency. 



Liberalism is a philosophy that espouses free trade and laissez-faire economics; salary caps are regulatory. The two are contradictory.




Jeptha -> RE: bonus cap (2/6/2009 11:04:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00
... If these executives of these failing companies are asking for gov't money (tax-payer money), its good business practice for the lender to set the stipulations of the grants/loans.

That's exactly what's happening, and it's as American as apple pie.

Nowhere else to you get free money to do what you please with. There are always conditions to be met to satisfy a loan, or grant, or whatever (unless it's your mom giving you the money. Or a "bail out".)
And you have the choice to accept those conditions or not.

Nobody is imposing caps on companies that don't accept government bail out money.

If your choice is accept the caps or go it alone and fail, then that's your choice and you live with it or walk away. Not that complicated. And not that unusual for a business arrangement in the real world.




Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875