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Judge Denies Obama's Request for Delay - 1/29/2009 7:47:02 PM

maybemaybenot

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"A military judge threw a wrench yesterday into the Obama administration's plan to suspend legal proceedings at Guantanamo Bay, denying the government's request to delay the case of a detainee accused of planning the 2000 attack on the USS Cole."

I had no idea that a military Judge could trump a President.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/29/AR2009012902021.html

mbmbn

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RE: Judge Denies Obama's Request for Delay - 1/29/2009 7:56:37 PM

Cagey18

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Seriously? He's not the King, he's the President. You've never heard of checks and balances? Three branches of government?

Just because Cheney tried to make the Presidency into a dictatorship doesn't change the basis of the Constitution.

(in reply to maybemaybenot)

Post #: 2

RE: Judge Denies Obama's Request for Delay - 1/29/2009 8:04:16 PM

TheHeretic

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Separation of Powers. It's a good thing. I don't know that I would call it a trumping, but there will be another round of cards dealt before Obama wins.

Of course, dropping the charges against one of the Cole bombers isn't going to play very well.

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RE: Judge Denies Obama's Request for Delay - 1/29/2009 8:06:24 PM

Cagey18

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You do understand the difference between the verbs drop and delay, yes?

(in reply to TheHeretic)

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RE: Judge Denies Obama's Request for Delay - 1/29/2009 8:38:23 PM

maybemaybenot

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OK, Cagey.... let me say it again,
The Lengthy Version:
When I heard PE Obama say the first thing he was going to do as Pres, was to sign a presidential order closing Gitmo and some inference that Presidents have the authority to do that, I * assumed * that he had absolute power on these limited things he was talking about. Please note : I * assumed*, PE Elect did not mislead me, I made a wrong conclusion. Following me, so far ?

Then, as promised President Obama signed that order. I again, erroniously * assumed * that it was a done deal.
So it would follow, that until I read that article, I did not realize it was an absolute done deal.
And I happen to be in favor of closing Gitmo, so your little lecture on Cheney was a waste of finger muscles.
Perhaps you may want to know the other person position before throwing rocks.

Heretic, yes, I understand and agree. As I said above, I wasn't up to snuff on Presdential orders vs. Military Judicial Powers. I am all for closing Gitmo, but with the safe re assignment of Nashiri and the likes.

mbmbn

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

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Post #: 5

RE: Judge Denies Obama's Request for Delay - 1/29/2009 9:01:48 PM

Cagey18

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Yep, that makes more sense. Thanks.

Cheney comment wasn't directed at you--more of a general rant at the rat bastard behind Bush's throne.

(in reply to maybemaybenot)

Post #: 6

RE: Judge Denies Obama's Request for Delay - 1/29/2009 9:09:19 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

You do understand the difference between the verbs drop and delay, yes?

Try reading the article the link in the OP goes to, Cagey. Dropping the charges (temporarily, of course) is discussed as being the next method to delay the tribunal for a review of the process.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
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Post #: 7

RE: Judge Denies Obama's Request for Delay - 1/29/2009 9:32:19 PM

Cagey18

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

You do understand the difference between the verbs drop and delay, yes?

Try reading the article the link in the OP goes to, Cagey. Dropping the charges (temporarily, of course) is discussed as being the next method to delay the tribunal for a review of the process.

Funny how you left out the very important qualifier "temporarily" in your post, since it, you know, completely changes the situation.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 8

RE: Judge Denies Obama's Request for Delay - 1/29/2009 9:35:47 PM

TheHeretic

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I'm looking at how it plays in the 24-7 news cycle, Cagey. I don't think the President wants to throw the Republican spin-machine that particular bone.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Cagey18)

Post #: 9

RE: Judge Denies Obama's Request for Delay - 1/29/2009 10:35:41 PM

Cagey18

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Fortunately, the news media aren't dumb enough to report a suspension of a case as "dropping" the charges, as you did.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 10

RE: Judge Denies Obama's Request for Delay - 1/29/2009 11:07:37 PM

TheHeretic

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Give it up, Cagey. You aren't dumb enough to believe that. I know you have heard of Rush Limbaugh. I'm not attacking the President's goals here, only saying that it wouldn't be a politically expedient way to proceed.

From the article:
But human rights activists said the administration should now withdraw charges, something it had seemed reluctant to do

There should be a withdrawal of charges in all cases, and we will directly engage the prosecutors and [Crawford] on that," said Army Maj. Jon Jackson, who is defending Mustafa Ahmed al-Hawsawi, an alleged Sept. 11 conspirator.

Personally, I hope our new President is way to smart to let Hannity get a grip of that.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Cagey18)

Post #: 11

RE: Judge Denies Obama's Request for Delay - 1/29/2009 11:37:15 PM

Cagey18

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Surely you aren't "dumb enough" to confuse Rush Limbaugh with the news media.

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Post #: 12

RE: Judge Denies Obama's Request for Delay - 1/30/2009 8:02:36 AM

Coldwarrior57

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

Surely you aren't "dumb enough" to confuse Rush Limbaugh with the news media.

ROFLMAO , are you sure?
There are lots of people that beleive that Jon Stewart show is NEWS.
Thats where they get their info. and KOS and Air America, so I would caution you on assuming as well.

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Post #: 13

RE: Judge Denies Obama's Request for Delay - 1/30/2009 8:44:54 AM

Termyn8or

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Before this thread gets too long, I have a question.

The President is Commander In Chief of the military, all branches from what I understand (I think).

This is a military court no ? Are not the judges in the military ?

Seems to me that the President could order the stoppage of an action by a military court, and would mainly because proceeding might cause a breach of national security issues.

What's more seems to me the last President delayed alot of prosecutions, allowing people to be held for an indefinite time before any hearings are held.

In other words, regardless of the reasons behind these actions, I have been led to believe that the President has quite a bit of authority here, whereas seperation of powers refers to congress and the courts being the other two branches. Does a civilian judge take the same oath as a military judge ?

Perhaps someone can clear this up for me, because I was under the impression that the President would absolutley have the authority to do this. Are military courts headed by the executive branch or the judicial ? The answer to that might clear a few things up.

Also what I have read is that this was a request. Now if my boss says to me "Could you please see if you can".... oh, contact someone or something like that, that is a request. However when he says "Do this next" that is not a request. This is something that is totally within his authority.

But in this case I read the word 'request'. I understand that a request by nature can be refused no matter the source, but could not the President then simply order the delay ?

Maybe I am not up on matters of the military, and, well, that's why I asked the question.

T

(in reply to Coldwarrior57)

Post #: 14

RE: Judge Denies Obama's Request for Delay - 1/30/2009 11:16:23 AM

Sanity

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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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And there are plenty gullible enough to believe that Kieth Oberman and Chris Mathews are "news" anchors, too!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Coldwarrior57
ROFLMAO , are you sure?
There are lots of people that beleive that Jon Stewart show is NEWS.
Thats where they get their info. and KOS and Air America, so I would caution you on assuming as well.

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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Post #: 15

RE: Judge Denies Obama's Request for Delay - 1/30/2009 1:38:48 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Coldwarrior57

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

Surely you aren't "dumb enough" to confuse Rush Limbaugh with the news media.

ROFLMAO , are you sure?
There are lots of people that beleive that Jon Stewart show is NEWS.
Thats where they get their info. and KOS and Air America, so I would caution you on assuming as well.

Finally something we can agree on Coldwarrior,assumptions are indeed dangerous.I myself never assume an intelligent person is responsible for these posts till I see some evidence of it.

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Post #: 16

RE: Judge Denies Obama's Request for Delay - 1/30/2009 2:04:44 PM

rulemylife

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Joined: 8/23/2004
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Hey, no one brought up the funniest part:
The chief military judge at the detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, Army Col. James Pohl, said that he found the government's arguments "unpersuasive" and that the case will go ahead because "the public interest in a speedy trial will be harmed by the delay in the arraignment."

Let's see.................................October, 2000.........January,2009...................................anyone have a calculator?

(in reply to maybemaybenot)

Post #: 17

RE: Judge Denies Obama's Request for Delay - 1/30/2009 4:55:28 PM

pahunkboy

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From: Central Pennsylvania
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is there a precedent?

No military judge or traditional judge stopped over 4000 troops from dieing on 2 wars based on false intel.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 18

RE: Judge Denies Obama's Request for Delay - 1/30/2009 4:58:10 PM

pahunkboy

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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Before this thread gets too long, I have a question.

The President is Commander In Chief of the military, all branches from what I understand (I think).

This is a military court no ? Are not the judges in the military ?

Seems to me that the President could order the stoppage of an action by a military court, and would mainly because proceeding might cause a breach of national security issues.

What's more seems to me the last President delayed alot of prosecutions, allowing people to be held for an indefinite time before any hearings are held.

In other words, regardless of the reasons behind these actions, I have been led to believe that the President has quite a bit of authority here, whereas seperation of powers refers to congress and the courts being the other two branches. Does a civilian judge take the same oath as a military judge ?

Perhaps someone can clear this up for me, because I was under the impression that the President would absolutley have the authority to do this. Are military courts headed by the executive branch or the judicial ? The answer to that might clear a few things up.

Also what I have read is that this was a request. Now if my boss says to me "Could you please see if you can".... oh, contact someone or something like that, that is a request. However when he says "Do this next" that is not a request. This is something that is totally within his authority.

But in this case I read the word 'request'. I understand that a request by nature can be refused no matter the source, but could not the President then simply order the delay ?

Maybe I am not up on matters of the military, and, well, that's why I asked the question.

T

Obama is supposed to be "commander and chief".

maybe to congress made some law that it is this way... maybe the patriot act.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 19

RE: Judge Denies Obama's Request for Delay - 1/30/2009 5:13:59 PM

barelynangel

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T, To me, and i don't know much about military, but there is a separation of powers even within the military, if the President could order a judge to rule a certain way -- which techincally is what this decision was and is a ruling on a motion before the court regarding the case before the court, then to me there would carry over to any ruling a Judge military or not making -- i.e., ruling someone is guilty simply because the President doesn't want him found innocent. For example, a higher ranking court or Judge (Think Supreme Court) can't just take a case of a say district judge and rule on it or tell a Judge how to rule, and i can't believe military courts are any different. The President nor any higher ranking officer can arbitrarily take control of a court room from a Judge -- could you imagine the chaos that would prevail if that were the case? The President doesn't trump to me any Judges in the country for that to me would create a concept of monarchy. I do understand what you are saying but if what you state would be true than any Judge would have to rule in conjunction what higher ranking officials would determine he should -- yes? grins, the Judges i know tend to rule and pretty much own the courtroom in which they are assigned lol, this means he will do as he wishes, the only recourse someone outside of that has is to bring it to a higher court for appeal.

Just my thoughts as to your question, i could be wrong, but your question to me it just would be well -- wrong lol.

angel

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Post #: 20

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