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RE: Really Stupid Question - 1/19/2009 5:07:17 PM   
manxcat


Posts: 673
Joined: 10/3/2008
Status: offline 		There are many Native Americans in all states, many of whom do not look it.  Some who are 3/4 blood have features more caucasian than i do.  I even have a friend who is 100% Creek/Cherokee who is blonde.  She happens to be albino.  It is not the skin color, nor hair, eyes or features that make one Native.  It is the (provable) blood quantum, which is different for most nations.  

And even though meant to be complimentary this is a very racist statement:
And I must say, Native American men are   ~*~H-O-T!!!~*~.   Soooooo handsome.   I sure wish there were a lot more of them around.  
And that is one reason why so many return to the rez.  Come live on a rez, and you will see many not so handsome ones as well as tribal members who appear white.  People are people, in all races, and come in all sizes, shapes, colors, and degree of Perceived beauty. 

"The only reason I ask is because even our so-called "Native Americans" have been shown by DNA to have traveled here from Asia via an early land bridge and are of Asian descent? "

There are those who have not been traced to Asia.

I recommend  "Genocide of the Mind" for anyone who wishes to make comments about Native Americans.   It is a collection of writings by Native Americans from over 27 nations.  I don't remember the editors name, but likely you can find it at Amazon.   It is an excellent tool for educating oneself to racist commentary and belief.  Things you may not even realize are racist, are defined and explained.   There is also the fact that many natives are racist as well, as are many  from any given racial or religious group.


manxcat



__________
I would rather be vilified for doing the right thing than be praised for doing the wwrong thing.

< Message edited by manxcat -- 1/19/2009 5:10:02 PM >

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RE: Really Stupid Question - 1/19/2009 5:10:31 PM   
Steponme73


Posts: 552
Joined: 11/9/2007
Status: offline 		LOL...I have to agree, maybe they think they are native american because they were born here?!  Another case of stupid reaches out and touches us.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Really Stupid Question - 1/19/2009 5:20:01 PM   
LadyTeazer


Posts: 225
Joined: 4/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyTeazer

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

But people filling out their profiles may be really stupid!


*chokes on her Kool-Aid*

AAAAAAAA - men to that!!!!!!

Once again, my favorite quote comes to mind....  "Only two things are infinite - the Universe, and human stupidity.  And I'm not so sure about the former."  ~~Albert Einstein

As to why people check  'Native American' for their ethnic background when they so are not, I dunno.   Next time you see an example of it, why not ask them why they did it?   I'll bet the answers would be interesting.

I agree, simpleplan2.  "Native American" means exactly that - only one who is "native" to this country, the Indians.  Being born here does not make you a Native American.  Everyone who is not of Indian heritage is a 'native' of some other country,  *not*  this one.    'Polish-American',  'Greek-American',  'Chinese-American'... you get the idea. 

And I must say, Native American men are   ~*~H-O-T!!!~*~.   Soooooo handsome.   I sure wish there were a lot more of them around.   But thanks to 500+ years of genocide, their numbers keep dwindling.   



Okay, so this is just for the sake of discussion since I always mark "Caucasian" only because the option of "European American" isn't offered.

How long do the "Caucasians" or any other ethnic group, have to live on this continent before the people of that race are considered "native" to this continent?  The only reason I ask is because even our so-called "Native Americans" have been shown by DNA to have traveled here from Asia via an early land bridge and are of Asian descent?  Even "Native Americans" aren't native to this continent if you go back far enough.  How long will it be before I can claim to be "native" to the place that I was born, and my parents were born, and my grandparents were born?

Again, not really looking for an arguement....just speculation and thoughts on the subject.





Good question.  I hadn't thought of it from that angle.  Me, my parents and grandparents were all born here.  I  simply see us as "Americans", versus "Native Americans".





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RE: Really Stupid Question - 1/19/2009 5:30:36 PM   
igor2003


Posts: 1718
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BbwCanaDomme
Either way, it's just a lable, who cares?


Does a person have to "care" in order to participate in a discussion they find interesting? 

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Really Stupid Question - 1/19/2009 6:38:33 PM   
LadyTeazer


Posts: 225
Joined: 4/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: manxcat

There are many Native Americans in all states, many of whom do not look it.  Some who are 3/4 blood have features more caucasian than i do.  I even have a friend who is 100% Creek/Cherokee who is blonde.  She happens to be albino.  It is not the skin color, nor hair, eyes or features that make one Native.  It is the (provable) blood quantum, which is different for most nations.  

And even though meant to be complimentary this is a very racist statement:
And I must say, Native American men are   ~*~H-O-T!!!~*~.   Soooooo handsome.   I sure wish there were a lot more of them around.  
And that is one reason why so many return to the rez.  Come live on a rez, and you will see many not so handsome ones as well as tribal members who appear white.  People are people, in all races, and come in all sizes, shapes, colors, and degree of Perceived beauty. 

"The only reason I ask is because even our so-called "Native Americans" have been shown by DNA to have traveled here from Asia via an early land bridge and are of Asian descent? "

There are those who have not been traced to Asia.

I recommend  "Genocide of the Mind" for anyone who wishes to make comments about Native Americans.   It is a collection of writings by Native Americans from over 27 nations.  I don't remember the editors name, but likely you can find it at Amazon.   It is an excellent tool for educating oneself to racist commentary and belief.  Things you may not even realize are racist, are defined and explained.   There is also the fact that many natives are racist as well, as are many  from any given racial or religious group.


manxcat



__________
I would rather be vilified for doing the right thing than be praised for doing the wwrong thing.





Yes, it was most certainly meant as a compliment to the Native American men. 

But did you read my comment which followed - that thanks to the genocide of 500+ years, there are fewer and fewer of them?    

Yes, I have been to several rez's.  And I have seen what living conditions are like there.  A ghetto in the hood would be considered a palace by comparison.  Yet you never hear them complain about it, let alone riot.  OK, rarely.  I'm thinking of  the protest on the Seneca rez in New York some years ago, and other "stand-off's" as the government called them here and there.

Living on a rez is most certainly not an easy life.  The poverty and squalor is unbelievable, unemployment rates are high, drug and alcohol addiction is rampant, education and health care are pretty much non-existant, and there is a feeling of hopelessness and despair all around.   Their level of chronic stess is unimaginable.  And yet, through it all, I can still see a strong sense of pride on the most weathered and wrinkled of faces.   (perceived) Handsome or not, young or old, men or women, I find all of those Native American faces to be ~beautiful~.

My collared boy is 3/4 Cherokee, but he really does not look it.    I have no Native blood in me at all, and yet have been asked many times if I am Indian.  *shrugs*  Go figure. 

Although it is unspoken, and therefore "hidden", there clearly does exist a racism against Native American people to this day in this country, which is apparently quite acceptable.   We owe our very country to them - not only the land itself, but how many lakes, rivers, towns, counties, roads, cities, and even state names are Native American words?   How many words in common usage are obviously insulting to Native Americans, yet we use them without a single thought regarding their feelings?   Example:  calling someone an "Indian giver";  being a (ticket) "scalper".     I know there are *many* more examples, but my mind is blanking on me at the moment.  How about sports teams names and their logo's/mascots??  The 'Redskins', the 'Braves' (and their "Tomahawk Chop" cheer), the (Cleveland) 'Indians' and their mascot 'Chief Wahoo', the (Florida) Seminoles, and on and on. 

Forget Obama as president.  I want to see a Native American as president.  I'll bet we  see some real changes then!! 





_____________________________

~LadyTeazer~



"... I can bring you pain, I can bring you sudden pleasure..."


Please, help shelter animals. It will only cost you a few seconds of your time.
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/tpc/ERA_110508_ARS
> Thank You!! <

(in reply to manxcat)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Really Stupid Question - 1/19/2009 7:35:14 PM   
manxcat


Posts: 673
Joined: 10/3/2008
Status: offline 		Then you should know better than to say something like that.  I will not get into a war of who knows more with your justification of horrible rez facts.  The racism is open, not hidden, and some of us are still fighting to educate, and eliminate team names, and negative terminology, without using it.  I have been fighting racism in all its forms for as long as i can remember.  I left one of the best relationships i ever had, because he was a bigot, and it got worse the more i asked him not to use those terms.  I have written essays about it.  Like i said, read Genocide of the Mind; (interlibrary loan will get it for you, if you cannot afford it) it explains much better than i can paraphrase - as mine is loaned out, why such comments are so destructive.
just sayin'


manxcat



____________
I would rather be vilified for doing the right thing than be praised for doing the wrong thing.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Really Stupid Question - 1/19/2009 8:47:21 PM   
ALAstella


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Joined: 12/3/2008
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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Really Stupid Question - 1/20/2009 11:38:04 AM   
WoodsRobert


Posts: 9
Joined: 12/15/2008
Status: offline 		So how do we get in on some of that "reservation native casino" action then?

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Really Stupid Question - 1/20/2009 11:54:26 AM   
oceanwynds


Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodsRobert

So how do we get in on some of that "reservation native casino" action then?


Wow you are clueless aren't you? shrugs shoulders and walks away. Will gag myself on this one

(in reply to WoodsRobert)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Really Stupid Question - 1/20/2009 12:19:48 PM   
jesiul


Posts: 111
Joined: 7/16/2005
Status: offline 		Being Native American, (Cherokee and Apache) I am registered under the Cherokee tribe, I have always been proud of my ancestry.
 
When I was younger I attended Pow-wow’s, participated in the traditional dances and games. When I was 13 I found that many of me friends in school thought it was great to be part of something so unique, things that I did that was steeped in traditions made them yearn to identify with such within their own families and cultures.
 
Perhaps this yearning is why so many wish to be Native American, to be part of something bigger, to belong to a family. As for the fact that so many claim to be Cherokee, well this may be do in part to several reasons, one Cherokee people where one of the largest nations,  in the early days the youth was forced of the reservations to be (re)educated and often married non-natives,  also Cherokee people tend to be light skinned, my own father had sandy blonde hair and my mother has light brown.
 
But perhaps the largest reason for there being so many here on Collar-me may be simply because it is available as one of the options, something that isn’t always available on all sights.
 
~Side note for the person who asked abut getting in on the Casino Action at Tribal Casinos, easy walk into one go straight to any machine or table and give them your money. With any luck you will walk out with more than you came with. The only other option is to have relatives who where lied to slaughtered and moved into uninhabitable lands, which they now have built casinos on.~

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RE: Really Stupid Question - 1/20/2009 12:33:39 PM   
SavageFaerie


Posts: 4377
Joined: 12/3/2004
From: NYC
Status: offline 		Had a conversation close to this not to long ago. He said to think in terms of indigenous rather than native.

Kinda made sense to me.

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RE: Really Stupid Question - 1/20/2009 1:25:34 PM   
pissdoll


Posts: 343
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jesiul

Being Native American, (Cherokee and Apache) I am registered under the Cherokee tribe, I have always been proud of my ancestry.



one of my best friends is Sioux. she and her children are registered with their tribe.

i have a few caucasian friends who love to talk about how native american they are.
they wear those tshirts with wolves howling at the moon and dream catchers.
they wear lots of turquoise.
their "grandmother" was full blooded such-and-such.

people want to feel like they belong...whether it's to an ethnic group, or a club, or way of life.
all you can do is just roll your eyes. those who SHOULD be registered with their tribes, generally are.

(in reply to jesiul)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Really Stupid Question - 1/20/2009 7:02:36 PM   
Jeptha


Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Steponme73

LOL...I have to agree, maybe they think they are native american because they were born here?! Another case of stupid reaches out and touches us.

Well ~ "native" refers to you're nativity, which is where you were born, so I think it would be technically correct to say that you are a native american if you were born here.

Though not correct in the popular parlance, of course.

I attended a panel of writers who contributed to an anthology called "The First Oregonians". They represented about 6 different tribes from around the state. Someone asked them if the term "indian" was un-p.c., or if "Native American" was preferable, etc.

There was some mixed feeling, but no unanimous thought about it one way or another. Some on the panel did point out that "Native American" refers to anyone for whom America is their place of birth.

The term "indian" was not shunned, though it has fallen out of favor with academia for a while now.

< Message edited by Jeptha -- 1/20/2009 7:06:34 PM >

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RE: Really Stupid Question - 1/20/2009 7:06:23 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Gee! You mean the "perfessor" Ward "TONTO" Churchill was right even though no Indian Tribe had any records on him?

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RE: Really Stupid Question - 1/20/2009 7:14:58 PM   
Jeptha


Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Gee! You mean the "perfessor" Ward "TONTO" Churchill was right even though no Indian Tribe had any records on him?
Not sure what the reference is to.
Back a few decades ago, when the government tried to define who could legally receive tribal status, quite a few tribes that no one had ever heard of emerged from the hills.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Really Stupid Question - 1/20/2009 7:29:47 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

"Native American" means exactly that - only one who is "native" to this country, the Indians.  Being born here does not make you a Native American.  Everyone who is not of Indian heritage is a 'native' of some other country,  *not*  this one.    'Polish-American',  'Greek-American',  'Chinese-American'... you get the idea. 


Actually, no you're wrong.  Native comes from the Latin word Natus, which means 'birth.'  I was born in the Americas, specifically North America.  I am a native American by definition.  I don't say that, because I understand that people by and large recognize this term as a description of aboriginal Americans.  But you are not incorrect in calling yourself a native American if you were born in the Americas. 

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RE: Really Stupid Question - 1/20/2009 7:32:30 PM   
BbwCanaDomme


Posts: 330
Joined: 5/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeptha

The term "indian" was not shunned, though it has fallen out of favor with academia for a while now.


I've noticed the term indian is a lot more common with Americans. Here it is definitely frowned upon, and I've seen more than one fight happen over it.

Aboriginal, indigenous, first nations, and native are all used regularly though.


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