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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 10:05:57 AM

daddysprop247

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

my Master expects and demands total obedience.

We do that..yes. But in the end..obiediance is something you give, not? IF you don't give it..he can demand it like crazy..he won't get it ;)

i hear you...but it is my nature to obey, even to those other than my Master, and even when i do not wish to do so. however regarding my Master...he will absolutely force obedience if necessary.

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 10:09:12 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

What does that mean to you?

obeying His orders, instructions and commands, totally.

quote:

Does it exist? Can it exist?

yes and yes...but not for everyone.

quote:

How far can you realisitically take it?

as far as He wants it to go, however, obviously, if taken to the point of death or incarceration, it would definitely put an end to any ongoing service.

quote:

Does it reflect dominating or domineering?

it could be both, or either, depending on what you perceive to be the difference.

quote:

Does asking for it disregard a submissive/slaves wants, needs, desires, hard limits?

it doesn't have to, for some, but for others, it most definitely would.

quote:

Can total obedience reside side by side with self reliant and independent?

sure, why not? this slave assumes that some obey orders to be self-reliant and independent...although it hasn't been this slave's experience.

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 10:37:18 AM

IrishMist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

my Master expects and demands total obedience. has done so from day one of taking ownership of me. imo total obedience is part and parcel of being a slave, and not at all outlandish or unrealistic. can it reside side by side with self-reliance and independence? theoretically, i suppose it could. but in this household? absolutely not.

This almost totally mirrors how things were with me.

I had simply two choices in my relationship....one, do as he says, or two, walk out the door.

If I refused to do as he asked, I was forced. Eventually, I learned that unless I wanted to spend hours being beaten ( and as much as I love a good fight in that manner, this kind of a beating was not fun ), it was easier to just do what he asked of me.

And yes, before the questions start...IF ( and this is a huge IF because it never happened, nor would it have ) he had asked me to do something that was harmful to myself, I would have followed his order and not questioned him...because quite honestly, he would have just beaten me down until I did it anyway.

Total obedience is possible.
What makes it realistic is the fact and the knowledge that we are obedient because we choose to be, not because we have to be.
I chose to be in the kind of relationship I was in, knowing full well from day one what would be required of me. It was the one and only time my consent or agreement was ever asked for or expected.

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 11:51:41 AM

servantheart

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

What does that mean to you?

It means that, to the very best of my abilities, I do as He commands in everything, regardless of my desires. The only exceptions being anything harmful to myself/others or illegal.

Does it exist? Can it exist?

Yes, absolutely.

How far can you realisitically take it?

As far as He desires to, or until I become physically/emotionally/mentally incapable of doing what He commands.

Does it reflect dominating or domineering?

It can be either or, depending on how well matched the partners are.

Within Sir's House, I have no power. There is no equality here. His word is law in all things and anyone who lives here is subject to His authority. I do not see this as domineering behavior on His part.  It is the dynamic I've always craved in my relationships.

Does asking for it disregard a submissive/slaves wants, needs, desires, hard limits?

Sir expects obedience from me if I am to remain His. Sir takes care of His property in many ways, including taking into consideration my wants, needs and desires.

Can total obedience reside side by side with self reliant and independent?

This is expected of me. Sir has no wish to dictate my every move. I am self-reliant and independent within the boundaries and rules that He has set in place.

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 12:45:21 PM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
If you have to "define it and be realistic" then it isn't total.

We disagree. You would have to define it and be realisitic about it to be able for it to exist. It's all about the subjective and depends on the relationship negociated.

quote:

Total obedience doesn't exist, hell even christians don't believe their god has total control and that we still have free will.

Christianity understands that the only reason god relinquished control to human beings is because he chose to. If he decides to change his mind, he can. He is god after all.

quote:

Total obedience means that someone doesn't have to "be realistic" it means they can do whatever they want, the sum TOTAL of their desires no matter how unrealistic they may be. Shy of that, it may be amazing, it might be awe inspiring, but it sure as hell isn't total.

We would disagree, yet agree that it is also amazing and awe inspiring - and also scarey, beautiful and doesn;t work for everyone. But for some it can.

the.dark.

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 1:08:40 PM

SimplyMichael

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LOL,

Of course negotiated and "realistic" control can exist, lots of people have what you and I have. And of course you can call it total if you want to and I understand that some people love a bit of fantasy with their D/s but I prefer to be grounded in a bit of reality.

< Message edited by SimplyMichael -- 1/7/2009 1:11:19 PM >

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 1:10:03 PM

ALAstella

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Now let's see, there's partially obedient? Semi-obedient? Randomly obedient? Relatively obedient?

Obedience to me even as an abstract concept is pretty much absolute.

It's the when and how it's applied which is relative.

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 1:24:59 PM

SimplyMichael

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By these definitions of "total" someone who only "demands" that someone breath is exercising the same control as female dominant who castrates her submissive.

And how many would "obey" if their dominant wanted to not only become vanilla but perhaps decided to become the submissive or some other ludicrious example.

Total implies just that....

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 1:55:27 PM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

LOL,

Of course negotiated and "realistic" control can exist, lots of people have what you and I have. And of course you can call it total if you want to and I understand that some people love a bit of fantasy with their D/s but I prefer to be grounded in a bit of reality.

We don't choose to call or label our relationship 'total' and nowhere in this thread did we say we did. But that is our personal choice. We just understand that it can exist for some people and it's cool for them. But if you want to suggest their relationships label choice is a fantasy, that is your choice. But many of the people who have posted here have suggested that they are in or have relationships that demand a total obedience. Are you suggesting that they are all living a fantasy?

the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 1/7/2009 1:56:34 PM >

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 1:56:05 PM

IronBear

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Actually Michael old mate, as you know perfectly well, when you are not winding people up, nothing other than death is absolutely total. There is always a possibility that something in nature including human behavior, will not follow something for what ever reason which is why science looks at tables to decide the probability of Murphy's Law coming into play, which we have all seen from time to time, and thus when one says total one usually allows for realistic expectations to be factored in. To follow your argument one could say Complete Totality or Universal Totally or some such description. To follow your argument rather, I think, places one in the position of King Canute commanding the tides. A God may command Totally not a mere mortal..

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 2:10:04 PM

Evility

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It exists as long as you find someone who doesn't ask anything of you that you are not willing to do. For many I have known and talked to that seems to be the standard course.

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 2:12:46 PM

MichiganHeadmast

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Sure. Remember the Manson girls?

Not always a good thing.

< Message edited by MichiganHeadmast -- 1/7/2009 2:13:02 PM >

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 2:15:45 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

What does that mean to you?

Unquestioned compliance. I asked all my questions prior to getting to that point.

quote:

Does it exist? Can it exist?

Yes and yes.

quote:

How far can you realisitically take it?

I don't understand the question. Total is total. I don't pick and choose what I'll obey and what I won't. If I wanted that, I wouldn't be in a power exchange relationship.

quote:

Does it reflect dominating or domineering?

Neither one. Total obedience reflects submission, not domination.

quote:

Does asking for it disregard a submissive/slaves wants, needs, desires, hard limits?

Yes, and all the more reason to make sure you ask those questions prior to agreeing to engage with someone who will expect total obedience.

quote:

Can total obedience reside side by side with self reliant and independent?

Yes, to the first part and no to the second. I think there is a difference between automony to do what's required in day to day life and being independent to make decisions which may or may not reflect the will of Himself. I don't just go out and buy myself plane tickets then tell him I'm off for a month or so to go visit family. I tell him that I'd like to go visit family, then he'll decide whether or not I can go, how long I can be gone, when I can leave, when I'm return etc. and I'll abide by that decision as I abide by all his decisions.

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 2:18:52 PM

SimplyMichael

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Actually Michael old mate, as you know perfectly well, when you are not winding people up, nothing other than death is absolutely total. ... A God may command Totally not a mere mortal..

Since I have yet to shake hands with anyone but a mortal, I will continue to laugh at anyone who wants to claim "total" control. I think what Bita speaks of is about as far as it goes and in her case it comes as close to total as us mortals get.

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 2:32:34 PM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
Yes, to the first part and no to the second. I think there is a difference between automony to do what's required in day to day life and being independent to make decisions which may or may not reflect the will of Himself. I don't just go out and buy myself plane tickets then tell him I'm off for a month or so to go visit family. I tell him that I'd like to go visit family, then he'll decide whether or not I can go, how long I can be gone, when I can leave, when I'm return etc. and I'll abide by that decision as I abide by all his decisions.

Your post made me double look so I am going to ask what you mean by automony? His or an outside source or something else?

the.dark.

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 2:59:19 PM

BitaTruble

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the.dark. - In the sense that he is concerned with what I get done, not how I get it done. If he tells me to clean the bathroom he's not going to care if I scrub out the tub first or clean the mirrors first as long as the bathroom is clean. (I would never clean the mirrors first though cuz that's just silly. lol) He would be concerned if I didn't clean the bathroom because I decided to do the floors instead.

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He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 3:07:37 PM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

the.dark. - In the sense that he is concerned with what I get done, not how I get it done. If he tells me to clean the bathroom he's not going to care if I scrub out the tub first or clean the mirrors first as long as the bathroom is clean. (I would never clean the mirrors first though cuz that's just silly. lol) He would be concerned if I didn't clean the bathroom because I decided to do the floors instead.

Thanks for the fast response my friend. Conincidence yes, but I know what you mean about mirrors in the bathroom - I cleaned them first the other day - BIG mistake... I should have known better.
If I am asking too many questions, tell me!
So, what would his concern be if you cleaned the floors because say - the dog ran through the hall all wet and muddy (you see where I am going with this - but then, does it rain much in portugal???)... basically the floors would be ruined or dangerous if you didn't do them over the bathroom and placed them as a priority?

the.dark.

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 3:16:15 PM

FullfigRIMAAM1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness
We do that..yes. But in the end..obiediance is something you give, not? IF you don't give it..he can demand it like crazy..he won't get it ;)

This would be why only grown up people should try and enter into a relationship, and the reason once they do, if they are into one another, they try and behave in a way that is pleasing to the counterpart.
If I require obedience, and you think it's up to you, you haven't known short relationships yet.

quote:

CatdeMedici
Thanks, but this is not from My relationship, I have a great one a very obedient submissive

I'm glad to hear this isn't about you and yours. Thanks for the kind words.

M

< Message edited by FullfigRIMAAM1 -- 1/7/2009 3:18:39 PM >

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 3:22:08 PM

IronBear

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Actually Michael old mate, as you know perfectly well, when you are not winding people up, nothing other than death is absolutely total. ... A God may command Totally not a mere mortal..

Since I have yet to shake hands with anyone but a mortal, I will continue to laugh at anyone who wants to claim "total" control. I think what Bita speaks of is about as far as it goes and in her case it comes as close to total as us mortals get.

WE are in agreement there. In fact were you to ask the same question in the Gorean Forum, I'd be hugly suprised if the response was different in any degree to what Bita posted.

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RE: Total Obedience Means ...? - 1/7/2009 3:32:41 PM

littlewonder

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

What does that mean to you?

It means that I do as I'm told. I don't give him a lot of lip about it, I don't hem and haw, I don't complain, I just do it.

quote:

Does it exist? Can it exist?

yes and yes

quote:

How far can you realisitically take it?

As far as you both wish to take it. For me I obey Master because I trust him. Sure at times I'm afraid of things he tells me to do but I do them anyway because I care for him very much and know in the end he would never harm me. He's never done anything to me to think otherwise.

quote:

Does it reflect dominating or domineering?

Neither. It reflects a relationship in which the dynamic works for the both of them. It's what makes them both satisfied.

quote:

Does asking for it disregard a submissive/slaves wants, needs, desires, hard limits?

her wants and desires..yup..at times but for us Master cares enough about me to want me to be happy so he likes giving me my wants and desires sometimes..but on his terms and when he feels like it.

her needs and hard limits...no, but this is about finding someone who is compatible with your needs and limits. This is why it works for me..because he does match up. I wouldn't be able to obey someone who wanted me to do things that were against my limits and needs. We would be incompatible. I struggle at times with his requests but those things aren't hard limits or needs...they're just things that I'm afraid of or find just very difficult to do.

quote:

Can total obedience reside side by side with self reliant and independent?

Absolutely and Master requires it. He wants someone who can take care of herself, her family, hold a career, etc...What good would I be if I couldn't. He'd get tired of having to do all the work and constantly having to teach and look after me. It kinda negates my entire purpose of being his slave.

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