Evil Russians

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Gwynvyd -> Evil Russians (1/6/2009 9:18:22 AM)
Ok, you get to hear this a lot.. but the Russians are evil. http://www.comcast.net/articles/finance/20090106/EU.Ukraine.Russia.Gas/ We have the potential for millions of people in Eastern Europe to freeze to death. It is the middle of a very cold winter, and they have shut off the gas lines to the EU that they service. Expect our gas prices to rise as these nations make quick deals with the other OPEC countries to provide them with their energy needs. Also expect a whole hell of a lot of unrest in these nations. Russia has been building slowly but surely.. and are just now flexing their muscles over their region and beyond. In less then 10 years I imagine a lot of the territories they lost when the USSR was dismantled will be once again under their cloak. ( Look at the conflicts in Georgia) Gwyn

Dnomyar -> RE: Evil Russians (1/6/2009 9:37:44 AM)
I think that is what the Russians and doing this for.

RCdc -> RE: Evil Russians (1/6/2009 9:55:46 AM)
Whilst it's uncool what happened, I do not see how Russia is only to blame and should be seen as 'evil'. If a contract is broken, and payments not met etc, what is to be expected? The UK gas companies are being blasted right now for having high fuel prices when they can purchase cheaply. Only thing is the UK gas companies bought the gas we are getting now in advance when the fuel prices were higher so as to ensure we wouldn't run short when gas consumption is increased. OK, the gas we get from russia is pretty small a percentage on the whole, but we basically paid in advance. I don't know much about the contract that Russia has with the Ukraine but its a commercial issue more than it is a political one because it's about outstanding debt. the.dark.

pahunkboy -> RE: Evil Russians (1/6/2009 11:02:27 AM)
Russia is doing what it is supposed to do. frankly, if I dont pay my heat bill, they shut it off as well. expecially with the 2004 dereg- they shut it off faster now. Russia has the muscle and is using it. the west has long been a bully. so I understand why they are doing this. it is unfortunate, but they are doing it because, they can.

Gwynvyd -> RE: Evil Russians (1/6/2009 11:51:53 AM)
I highly doubt it is a billing issue of them not being paid. They have said that is part of it.. however with all of the political issues that is going on between them.... The Russians say the Ukraine has been siphoning off the gas as it passes through the pipelines. That is a very hard thing to prove or disprove. If you look at their history you can see the bitterness. Most of the countries that are the hardest hit by this are the ones that were once under their rule. ~ Any one see a pattern here? They have other pipelines to pump the gas around the Ukraine but they arent. It is plain and simple a power play. Gwyn

awmslave -> RE: Evil Russians (1/6/2009 12:11:33 PM)
In my understanding this is not purely "not paying a bill" issue. There are several factors involved One of the most important issue is how Russian state owned company Gazprom does business. The contracts are maniplated or simply not honored. Russia is much more careful in dealings with Western Europe but feels superior to Ukraine and wants to destabilize its pro Western administration. A quote from the article: "One of the long-standing points of contention in the Ukrainian-Russian gas trade is the use of intermediary companies such as Eural Trans Gas and its successor RosUkrEnergo. These highly lucrative opaque companies, alleged to be the brain child of former Gazprom deputy CEO Yuriy Komarov, do not own any gas fields or pipelines, yet Gazprom has insisted on their inclusion in the Ukrainian market since 2002, despite the fact that their role as intermediaries has never been clearly explained and the people involved in these schemes have admitted to ties with Russian organized crime figures. Some suspect that the money earned by RUE goes to line the pockets of high Gazprom and Kremlin officials." Add here Putin hate towards Ukranian president and prime minister and you get the typical Russian game.

RCdc -> RE: Evil Russians (1/6/2009 12:23:43 PM)
Russia want to be paid and not be stolen from. Ukraine are trying to suggest it's a contract issue. I don't buy into the whole Russian conspiracy theory. But then I am 'european'. This isn't a new thing. It's happened before when the Ukraine messed up on their payments a few years back. If I was Turkey or one of the other countries, I would be more annoyed at the Urkraine. Despite Ukrainies protests that they haven't syphoned supplies and it cannot be proved, European countries have found unexplained drops in supplies, so it's going somewhere when it leaves Russia. I just find it sucky to call and define Russians in a gorss generalisation that they are all evil. Ukraines not that innocent in all this. the.dark.

came4U -> RE: Evil Russians (1/6/2009 12:50:35 PM)
Where do you live and do you not think it will happen to you? explains multiculturism.

RCdc -> RE: Evil Russians (1/6/2009 12:56:48 PM)
You will need to expand on your question for me to answer you properly - do you mean no gas supplies due to the same thing? And what has multiculturalism have to do with it from your POV? the.dark.

pahunkboy -> RE: Evil Russians (1/6/2009 1:14:37 PM)
quote: New Messages Gwynvyd Deranged Posts: 3857 Joined: 4/3/2004 From: A Land Far Far Away Status: online I highly doubt it is a billing issue of them not being paid. They have said that is part of it.. however with all of the political issues that is going on between them.... The Russians say the Ukraine has been siphoning off the gas as it passes through the pipelines. That is a very hard thing to prove or disprove. If you look at their history you can see the bitterness. Most of the countries that are the hardest hit by this are the ones that were once under their rule. ~ An quote: ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd I highly doubt it is a billing issue of them not being paid. They have said that is part of it.. however with all of the political issues that is going on between them.... The Russians say the Ukraine has been siphoning off the gas as it passes through the pipelines. That is a very hard thing to prove or disprove. If you look at their history you can see the bitterness. Most of the countries that are the hardest hit by this are the ones that were once under their rule. ~ Any one see a pattern here? They have other pipelines to pump the gas around the Ukraine but they arent. It is plain and simple a power play. Gwyn of course it is a power play. the US knows all about power plays...and has pulls a few of its own power plays.. including the current 2 wars. Lindsey Williams predicted cheap oil to take down the arabs, and others. so this is what happens. As to Ukrain sharing the blame. that is possible. I know nothing about Ukrain.

slvemike4u -> RE: Evil Russians (1/6/2009 2:54:17 PM)
Russia wouldn't stage-manage such a crisis in response to falling prices.Nah.....driving up prices would not be consistent with Russia's usual friendly relations with its neighbors....Nah.

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