Fighting back. (Full Version)

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missturbation -> Fighting back. (12/30/2008 9:46:05 AM)

During 'play' i have been known to struggle, wriggle, fight restraints and even once swore at my play partner. Something along the lines of 'when i get out of here (restraint), i'm going to fucking kill you'. I have never though, not even once raised a hand, leg in response to a beating in 'play'.
 
It's not that i haven't wanted to, i can get quite defiant about a beating, quite angered by it, feel the need to lash out. However i have always kept it under control and would never dream of actually fighting back, well until now that is!
 
It has been suggested that it might be fun, interesting to have me fight back once in a while. I'm struggling with this concept though and for quite a few reasons.
 
When i was younger and hit on i just took it. As i grew older and learnt that that's not the way it's supposed to be, i started to fight back, turned into quite the little battler for a while. When i found BDSM it stopped and i no longer felt the need to fight back. I take beatings i enjoy, i even enjoy the feelings of defiance and anger.
 
I haven't got a sadistic bone in my body. Unless in true self defense i can't hurt anybody. It would be a real struggle for me to fight back against something i am loving. I would truly be worried about hurting him. Oh i know the chances of me over powering him are like 100 to 1 but still i'd be mortified if i thought i'd hurt him.
 
I've been telling myself that this is something he wants to do, something he thinks he will enjoy and since i want to please him it shouldn't be an issue. It is though.
 
Any advice on how i can get past this?



mistoferin -> RE: Fighting back. (12/30/2008 9:52:32 AM)

It's all in the mindset. Go into like you would go into a competitive game or sport. Most importantly...keep it fun. If it starts not being fun...call a halt to it. At least for now until you feel out the waters.

I love to fight in a scene. As a former fighter it's something I can really get right into. The partners you choose to do this with are important though. If you see it heading down a bad road you have to be able to come to a stop. Sometimes, with the right partner, I have been able to take it into a place where you are really working out some frustrations and anger...but that is where you really have to tread lightly until you know each other quite well.

For now, just starting out, I'd suggest keeping it at the fun level.



missturbation -> RE: Fighting back. (12/30/2008 10:05:00 AM)

Thankyou Erin, i'm just worried that i might lose control and really go for it. He would most definately over power me if i did but it's still a concern.
I guess really i should talk to him about my fear of losing control. At worst he will say we'll forget it for now, at best be prepared if it does happen.
I'm not sure i'm going to be able to find it in me to fight back in the first place either. Guess i won't know until i try.



Lynnxz -> RE: Fighting back. (12/30/2008 10:09:41 AM)

Go ahead and lose control, like you said, he's most likely to overpower you anyway. C and I do it every once in a while, throwing each other across the room (k, so only he can manage that one), biting, punching.... it's a lot of fun, even if we do break things and someone might end up with an unintended bruise. The benefits outweigh the danger factor for us... and there's little chance I could hurt him unless I really just snuck up on him. 



mistoferin -> RE: Fighting back. (12/30/2008 10:10:59 AM)

I'd be a lot more worried about losing control than an inability to fight back. I guess that I'm coming from a different place on it than you are because I've had a lot of training and experience at this sort of thing...and losing control for me is not an option. What I do is well thought out and precise...even if it happens in an instant. That really isn't something that you just "have"...it was something that came with time and training. Bottom line...the person that you're playing with is your partner...someone you care about on some level. Yes, you want it to be a good and exhilarating fight...but harm isn't the goal. I wouldn't participate if I wasn't absolutely sure that I could stay within bounds.



bratnwranglers -> RE: Fighting back. (12/30/2008 10:13:08 AM)

i would say the same thing, i also love to fight and struggle back wrestle, whatever you want to call it..when its acceptable, and we are playing around. For me its a competitive thing, i am sooo competitive and i'll be honest i love to win, whether its basketball, softball, monopoly, or go fish...and yet when i'm being pinned down struggling to get free....hehe i really don't want to be free....but my competitivness as to at least try... its an adrenaline thing for me i think... hope this helped...



mistoferin -> RE: Fighting back. (12/30/2008 10:18:01 AM)

After reading Lynnxz's post, I realize that I'm probably not the best one to respond to this because it is very different for me. I do have the capacity to do some serious harm if I lose control...so that is a factor that I have to consider. It would be really hard for me to answer from a perspective that didn't take that into account. Sir teases me all the time about me "not really being a girl...being "dude" strong". Maybe it works for me because my partners have been good matches. My ex Master was a pro level athlete in a physical contact sport...and Sir has a lot of military training.

I don't know, I'll be interested to see the responses and how others deal with that "out of control" aspect.



IronBear -> RE: Fighting back. (12/30/2008 10:28:47 AM)

Just like in martial arts and similar combat sports, there is always the chance to "tap out". It is used in much the same way as the "safe word". Were I to decide to enter in to BDSM rough play such as you suggest, I'd instigate both a "safe word" and "tap out" system for safety reasons. That way if things look like going over board the safety out is there. There are no guarantees that it will work all the time but that too is the nature of BDSM and combat sports. People do get hurt. 



Focus50 -> RE: Fighting back. (12/30/2008 10:30:57 AM)

Since it's clearly not a need in you, perhaps you should discuss with your partner why it's so important to him that you "fight back".  It's all very well that it's what he wants but it doesn't sound like he's wanting it to address an issue you're having....
 
Me, I occasionally enjoy having the girl struggle against her restraints (and I mean STRUGGLE) just to remind her who it is that controls who in the relationship and then leave her as is for a few hours of bondage bliss to soak up the lesson - but that's it in the "fight back" department.
 
And since you possibly could develop an issue from what he asks, that's reason enough for a full and frank discussion as to the "why?"....
 
Focus.



FRSguy -> RE: Fighting back. (12/30/2008 11:06:16 AM)

Probably the point is for you to lose control.  If you are restrained then there is not much you can really do. By fighting against it and loosing control then you will experience a flood of uncontrolled emotions which might be what he is after. I can certainly understand where you could be concerned... in some ways it might be like uncorking a bottle. It could be a very rewarding experience for you or at least posibly make you face things that have not been in your immediate site. It certainly brings up trust issues with yourself. If you have trust and faith in him and he knows you well, then have faith that he will be able to deal with you.



DesFIP -> RE: Fighting back. (12/30/2008 12:03:03 PM)

We haven't discussed me fighting back, but we have talked about wrestling - a play resistance. The truth is that I can't even do that. In extreme provocation I can call him a name, but that's as far as I get. Partly I do have this irrational fear of somehow hurting him which I know isn't possible. But I'm equally afraid of winning. I don't know how I would feel if I could somehow pin him but I'm sure the feelings would be bad. And that possibility, remote as it is, paralyzes me.

Plus of course, when he handles me roughly I melt, which also makes it damn hard to resist.



GoodFeathers -> RE: Fighting back. (12/30/2008 12:09:00 PM)

I can understand the urge to fight back.  However, I've never experienced it in play.  Sure, I'll struggle against the restraints and whatnot and play fight, but I don't feel the urge to really go for it.  It's a part of my upbringing I suppose, I was taught to fight, to defend, protect, and kill if it came to that (my dad got a little tweaked after 'Nam).  I'm afraid of really going for it because I know exactly what I'm capable of and I wouldn't unleash that on someone I cared about.

Sure, he's bigger than me, and could over power me, but I don't want to take the (very good) chance that he won't be able to "hold his own", as it were. 



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Fighting back. (12/30/2008 12:57:28 PM)

That's what the terms "risk aware" and "informed consent" were created for.  Yes, it's a risk, yes, he needs to know what you are capable of and whether you will hold back or not.

But I agree with Erin- keep it fun at least to start with.  Fighting someone is a great way to get to know them.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_403611/mpage_1/key_force%252Cplay/tm.htm#403617
Resistance, Force, Primal, Wrestling, Play Rape, etc?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_336357/mpage_1/key_force%252Cplay/tm.htm#336362
Fighting back

http://www.collarchat.com/m_257243/mpage_1/key_force%252Cplay/tm.htm#257283
Fighting back for fun!

http://www.collarchat.com/m_157286/mpage_1/key_force%252Cplay/tm.htm#157426
Fighting Back

http://www.collarchat.com/m_139472/mpage_1/key_force%252Cplay/tm.htm#139477
A challenging submissive

http://www.collarchat.com/m_110661/mpage_1/key_force%252Cplay/tm.htm#110673
Force

http://www.collarchat.com/m_76392/mpage_1/key_force%2Cplay/tm.htm
The premise of forced play

http://www.collarchat.com/m_214517/mpage_1/key_primal/tm.htm#214524
Releasing the beast within

http://www.collarchat.com/m_153621/mpage_1/key_primal/tm.htm#153823
Rage



TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Fighting back. (12/30/2008 1:06:01 PM)

I'm with the not a sadist crowd..If I were instructed to fight back, I may do so in a controlled manner..however, If I were instructed not to hold back,there would be a fear that I could honestly hurt him..I may be in ties or restrained, but if instructed not to hold back, there are many ways one could get in a very serious shot or two that may require a visit to the ER..He may be big and strong, but I can be mean and sneaky....Tempting



utopicus -> RE: Fighting back. (12/30/2008 1:11:11 PM)

It's a mindset - try to enjoy the play, connect with the feelings and if you cannot - use the safe word and stop it.
The other party is there for you as well and they need to know what is going on with you - there should be mutual enjoyment.



T1981 -> RE: Fighting back. (12/30/2008 1:14:01 PM)

I think play fighting back would be alot of fun, but it always feels a little silly to me. He's even mentioned that he would like to play at it, but it doesn't take long before I'm giggling and begging for him. I guess I don't have much paitence for the build-up, and while I'm fairly certain I couldn't really hurt him, it always feels a little *wrong* to fight back. As if I'm somehow not doing something right.

What a strange combination this whole thing is!



IvyMorgan -> RE: Fighting back. (12/30/2008 2:27:17 PM)

The first thing I do when tied up is untie myself.  It takes a lot for me to sit still through that urge and relax into the rope.  And I *love* rope.  My head goes fuzzy when rope comes near me, but, I untie myself.

Fighting back is more iffy, of the "fight, flight, freeze" options, fight is my least likely, but, it can be fun.  I certainly like the idea of fighting and being overpowered though.

As far as getting over things that you find hard, cliche and predictable as the answer is... communicate.  Talk it through with him what you find hard, why you find it hard, and come up *together* with a way to overcome that hardness if you both decide that that is what you want to have happen.



scottishjason -> RE: Fighting back. (12/30/2008 4:12:43 PM)

Well I can’t speak for all doms but I know for myself I love it when a girl fights back.  It’s a lot more fun when she is struggling around and a bit of a turn on.  Now I don’t know if it would be if I ever found a woman that could actually hurt me.  But since I am a pretty big very strong guy I don’t see that happening.  The reality is that this question should really be put to your partner not too us here on a forum.  Everyone has kinks… see if your partner is into it.  If he is… go for it.



SteveAndJaz -> RE: Fighting back. (12/30/2008 4:24:59 PM)

Steve says...

We have only one rule, "if it feels good; do it" that can however be interpreted in may ways, it can feel good to be in control, to do what I want with Jaz, while at the same ti,e it feels good to let her take control and although I may not be comfortable taking what she wants to give me the "feel good" comes from knowing she is getting something she wants (now I sound like a proper subby lol)

Until the night I met Jaz I had only ever Dominated, since that night I have discovered I love the fight, not to win or over power but simply for the power exchange with a strong willed woman.

She is the most amazing (submissive) Dominant I have ever known.

I have met my match and I will never go back to simple D/s where the woman simply does as she is told all the time.



Lashra -> RE: Fighting back. (12/30/2008 4:25:13 PM)

quote:

He would most definately over power me if i did but it's still a concern.

Do not be so sure about that. An enraged person who, from the sound of it. may have had issues in the past with violence and anger, can turn into a big, mean fighting machine. I've heard some people say that everything goes "red" and they have no idea what they are doing and end up hurting someone in a very bad way. I would say tread very carefully, just because your a woman does not automatically mean a man can overpower you, most think they can, but that is not always the case.

Good luck,
~Lashra



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