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CIA Wins Over Tribal Leaders With Viagra - 12/28/2008 3:47:34 PM   
Sanity


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I initially found this article linked to on Rotten.com under the title, "Boners for Peace".

Ain't technology great...

quote:

U.S. Spy Agency Curries Favor With Afghan Chieftans By Offering Little Blue Pills As Bribes

(Washington Post) The Afghan chieftain looked older than his 60-odd years, and his bearded face bore the creases of a man burdened with duties as tribal patriarch and husband to four younger women. His visitor, a CIA officer, saw an opportunity, and reached into his bag for a small gift.

Four blue pills. Viagra.

"Take one of these. You'll love it," the officer said. Compliments of Uncle Sam.

The enticement worked. The officer, who described the encounter, returned four days later to an enthusiastic reception. The grinning chief offered up a bonanza of information about Taliban movements and supply routes, followed by a request for more pills.

For U.S. intelligence officials, this is how some crucial battles in Afghanistan are fought and won. While the CIA has a long history of buying information with cash, the growing Taliban insurgency has prompted the use of novel incentives and creative bargaining to gain support in some of the country's roughest neighborhoods, according to officials directly involved in such operations.

In their efforts to win over notoriously fickle warlords and chieftains, the officials say, the agency's operatives have used a variety of personal services. These include pocketknives and tools, medicine or surgeries for ailing family members, toys and school equipment, tooth extractions, travel visas, and, occasionally, pharmaceutical enhancements for aging patriarchs with slumping libidos, the officials said.

(Full article here).




< Message edited by Sanity -- 12/28/2008 4:27:02 PM >


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RE: CIA Wins Over Tribal Leaders With Viagra - 12/28/2008 4:34:23 PM   
MasterG2kTR


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Viva Viagra......LOL

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RE: CIA Wins Over Tribal Leaders With Viagra - 12/28/2008 5:43:36 PM   
Vendaval


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Hey, there is a black-market trade for Viagra and other treatments for ED.  Hope nobody is spiking the punch for NYE with that stuff at the old folks homes.

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RE: CIA Wins Over Tribal Leaders With Viagra - 12/28/2008 6:13:54 PM   
Sanity


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Viagra blurs the line defining recreational drug use, doesn't it?


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RE: CIA Wins Over Tribal Leaders With Viagra - 12/28/2008 6:41:31 PM   
Vendaval


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Well, what might be one man's "marital aide" can be a gigolo's tools of the trade!


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RE: CIA Wins Over Tribal Leaders With Viagra - 12/29/2008 4:07:29 AM   
Raechard


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Considering the age of the average tribal leaders wives I don't think that's a good idea. A limp dick is nature’s way of telling you to stop your sexual abuse in some circumstances. We know about these things we consider abuses and we still aid them how is that for intelligence?

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IRIN/49b628915db0cb6bbecc657d72670ac6.htm


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RE: CIA Wins Over Tribal Leaders With Viagra - 12/29/2008 4:09:32 AM   
Vendaval


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You raise an interesting point, Raechard.

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RE: CIA Wins Over Tribal Leaders With Viagra - 12/29/2008 4:34:04 AM   
Sanity


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Your link is dead and your point is probably moot because erections aren't evil, Raechard - ignorance is evil, and the Taliban fosters ignorance itself. The Viagra is a tool to help usher in a more modern world there, complete with rights for women and a general education for everyone, and any "abuse" by tribal elders would probably occur there in some form or another with or without Viagra enhanced erections.

Without the intelligence that the CIA is getting for their little blue pills the Taliban would be stronger there, and they're horribly infamous for going well beyond mere "abuse" of women and girls.

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RE: CIA Wins Over Tribal Leaders With Viagra - 12/29/2008 4:39:13 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

Considering the age of the average tribal leaders wives I don't think that's a good idea. A limp dick is nature’s way of telling you to stop your sexual abuse in some circumstances. We know about these things we consider abuses and we still aid them how is that for intelligence?

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IRIN/49b628915db0cb6bbecc657d72670ac6.htm



Some how I doubt that viagra is to blame for the abuses to women in that country.

To the OP: Actually this is one of the smarter things I have heard them do.

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RE: CIA Wins Over Tribal Leaders With Viagra - 12/29/2008 5:03:36 AM   
LadyEllen


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Presumably the idea is to produce many fine upstanding members in the community.

E

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RE: CIA Wins Over Tribal Leaders With Viagra - 12/29/2008 5:22:51 AM   
corysub


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This is the first hard news I've gotten from Afganistan that I can trust.

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RE: CIA Wins Over Tribal Leaders With Viagra - 12/29/2008 6:44:44 AM   
Raechard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Your link is dead and your point is probably moot because erections aren't evil, Raechard - ignorance is evil, and the Taliban fosters ignorance itself. The Viagra is a tool to help usher in a more modern world there, complete with rights for women and a general education for everyone, and any "abuse" by tribal elders would probably occur there in some form or another with or without Viagra enhanced erections.

Viagra is a tool to usher in a modern world i.e. because we have Viagra technology we are superior to them is that your logic? It's not even about the Viagra as such it's about us appealing to their base desires rather than trying to convince them women are good for more than sexual gratification. On the one hand we say “give women rights, let them have an education and more importantly a childhood" and on the other we say "here is some Viagra for your sexual pleasure". Can't you see the mixed message here? There is a difference between accepting things are bad and failing to take the moral high ground on an issue.

All we ever seem to do is confirm what they suspect of us i.e. we are a bunch of hypocrites that talk about women’s rights but wouldn't know where to begin on such an issue. They would say to themselves "oh the decadent west with their sex aids why are they trying to convince me they are any different to us in how they see women?" That is the perception so that is the reality. They don't see women in the west in their high powered jobs being self sufficient and helping our society all they see is a western man handing over pills for sexual performance in a way another tribal elder may hand around sexual remedies, they assume we are the same and what they do we accept as being ok. Can't we just for once demonstrate the west has greater aspirations in life than sex? The reality might be that the west is sex obsessed but do have to show them that?
quote:


Without the intelligence that the CIA is getting for their little blue pills the Taliban would be stronger there, and they're horribly infamous for going well beyond mere "abuse" of women and girls.

Is there any evidence to back that up, I mean has someone done a statistical study on how the amount of quality information has increased since the introduction of CIA run men’s health clinics?

Guess what the reason you can't find the Taliban is because they are hiding in plain sight. That farmer the other week that told you some Taliban stole his herd, well guess what he does when you aren’t nearby him asking questions about the Taliban? The Taliban such mystical creatures that shoot guns from a far and when you actually kill one look like a farmer or tribal elder, why is that? The CIA wouldn't know it's arse from its elbow it's probably met half a dozen Taliban and doesn't even know it. As for actual terrorists they probably all fucked off into Iraq long ago to fight the US there. You'll be fighting the Taliban for the rest of your lives at this rate, maybe next time you have a discussion with one you can demonstrate something other than the west’s obsession with sex.

You don't have to follow my broken link thousands of other similar stories exist but for your information it was about how some parents solve their debt.

< Message edited by Raechard -- 12/29/2008 6:54:44 AM >


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RE: CIA Wins Over Tribal Leaders With Viagra - 12/29/2008 6:59:21 AM   
Sanity


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Good one, E.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Presumably the idea is to produce many fine upstanding members in the community.

E


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RE: CIA Wins Over Tribal Leaders With Viagra - 12/29/2008 7:14:52 AM   
Sanity


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You'd have to consider yourself (and the West) their superiors for you to go and label the whole lot of them "abusive" as you do, now wouldn't you.

And I'm sorry, but sex isn't nearly as naughty or as evil as you're trying to make it sound. Why, I'd bet you that Muslim women are just as capable of enjoying a big erect penis as Western women are...


quote:

Viagra is a tool to usher in a modern world i.e. because we have Viagra technology we are superior to them is that your logic?






< Message edited by Sanity -- 12/29/2008 7:17:23 AM >


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RE: CIA Wins Over Tribal Leaders With Viagra - 12/29/2008 7:22:49 AM   
Raechard


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If we are not superior then we have no place trying to convince them to adopt any of our values. You have a romantic view of the world, do you really think the average wife of a tribal leader married him through choice? The sad fact is they don't know what choice is because choice isn't a reality for them. There are some good things that can come out of the war there, i.e. we can never end terrorism by being there but we can demonstrate our values are worth adopting and that is the only long term good you can ever do. Someone that shares your values isn't a threat to you and I'm never going to respect certain values of other cultures if they go against my core beliefs. So they better get ready for that debate to happen because it's the only way long term change is going to come about.


And no sex isn't evil it's just a distraction from life if it's all you can ever think about everything in moderation is fine as they say.


< Message edited by Raechard -- 12/29/2008 7:35:52 AM >


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RE: CIA Wins Over Tribal Leaders With Viagra - 12/29/2008 7:38:13 AM   
Sanity


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Regarding their tribal marriage customs, that's their culture. Who are you to decide that it's right or it's wrong? And who are you to demand that we charge in there and change it, or that we treat them differently, as if they're special ed students.

Besides, I'll bet you that was our culture too, and not so long ago. That may well be why we're on a "collarchat" web site discussing all of this... their lifestyle choices are fairly well ingrained in all of us, and not at all unnatural in my opinion.

Edited to add, To be clear, I mean their ancient cultures, and not necessarily the relatively recent additions of Shariah Law and other newer Islamic traditions.





< Message edited by Sanity -- 12/29/2008 7:49:07 AM >


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RE: CIA Wins Over Tribal Leaders With Viagra - 12/29/2008 7:55:01 AM   
Raechard


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Who is to say someone deserves no childhood and no rights just because they were born into a certain culture? Yes change it, it's the only good you can do. If someone said sacrificing people to the mystical god King Kong on some tropical island somewhere was required to ward off evil spirits would you stand for it or would you try to save the people who were only born for the purpose of instantly dying? We aren’t talking about people making choices for themselves we are talking about people making choices for other human beings and them human beings having no choices. Human rights are for every single human being, no matter what their culture tells them.
 
That is what I believe. No point making human rights laws and turning your back on the abuses of those human rights in other parts of the world just because it is 'part of their culture'.
 
Yes we had these problems in the past so who is better placed to demonstrate the great possibilities of change to them? Sadly we never seem to take this opportunity but instead make them realise their worst fears about us.


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RE: CIA Wins Over Tribal Leaders With Viagra - 12/29/2008 8:05:39 AM   
LadyEllen


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Thing is Raechard, our "culture" is hardly a model that recommends itself to anyone, including many of us.

Yes, other cultures feature abuses which we find incomprehensible and irreconcilably evil - but even a moderately distanced analysis of our own demonstrates the same level of abuses even if the natures of those abuses is at variance.

E

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RE: CIA Wins Over Tribal Leaders With Viagra - 12/29/2008 8:18:06 AM   
Raechard


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The only difference being the rule of law in our culture that brings people to justice occasionally and demonstrates: yes abuses happen but we don't tolerate them or approve of them. We all have a hand in shaping our culture through the democratic process. If it isn't what we like we can take steps to protest against it. We only have ourselves to blame for the society we live in, to a certain point, if we do nothing to make it what we want it to be.
Good that we have these freedoms at least.
 

< Message edited by Raechard -- 12/29/2008 8:28:01 AM >


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RE: CIA Wins Over Tribal Leaders With Viagra - 12/29/2008 9:25:39 AM   
LadyEllen


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But we do tolerate them; I certainly right now, and perhaps you too, are tolerating horrific abuses in the eyes of other cultures, based on our cultural model. And meanwhile, in these "backward" regions of the world the inhabitants would be shaking their heads at how we treat one another, disbelieving that we offer nothing in the way of compassion and hospitality to the dispossessed in our societies, that we regard their misfortune as not our problem.

My point is that human cultures are all alike in the degree of abuse - the differences in the expression of what is moral or immoral are interesting, but it is wholly wrong to hold that any one model is the ideal; least of all ours where we have all the means necessary but little in the way of will to ensure all members of our tribe profit, least of all ours where consumerism based on the soon to be theft of ordinary Chinese people's savings is held as the epitome of civilisation, least of all ours where in our arrogance we condemn others and invade them for disagreeing with our model, when our model is so sorely lacking.

E

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