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RE: the internet as quite a dangerous place - 12/27/2008 9:09:53 AM

Sanity

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Yes, it's called thought policing, and I have a lot of problems with it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

I'd have no issues with a bi-partisan committee made up of equal numbers of members from each side setting out guidelines for equal air-time, would you?

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RE: the internet as quite a dangerous place - 12/27/2008 9:15:01 AM

Raechard

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Thought policing already exists, we tend to tell people murder is bad. They can't police original thought, you have a low opinion of human beings if you think that's a problem. I could argue someone has to decide on the content, who would you rather it be an advertiser that has no requirement to show fairness or a government regulator that does and is accountable for bad choices?

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RE: the internet as quite a dangerous place - 12/27/2008 9:22:29 AM

Sanity

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They (your government agents) would "regulate" only the thoughts they disagree with.

As things currently stand practically anyone can have a radio program, and most anyone can set up a web site. Mandating that owners of websites and radio stations pay others to speak against their views would be harmful to both mediums. Just the tangle of bureaucracy would kill free speech really, which in the case of the "Fairness Doctrine" is the whole intention.

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RE: the internet as quite a dangerous place - 12/27/2008 9:34:34 AM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
So you want government to decide what the middle is, and to enforce that everything be discussed fairly?

I'd have no issues with a bi-partisan committee made up of equal numbers of members from each side setting out guidelines for equal air-time, would you?

Raechard, I'd have a problem with that.
First of all who the hell are they do "decide" anything?
Secondly, what about those of us out here who don't belong to either "side?"
There's a lot more than just two "sides."

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RE: the internet as quite a dangerous place - 12/27/2008 9:37:21 AM

Raechard

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Well I suppose it depends where you live because often the issues we become outraged by are often raised in the first place by opposition members in parliaments. A lot of these issues would go unnoticed if an opposition MP didn't bring it to our attention in the first place. Government isn't one entity, it is full of various people with different ideas about the right way forward.

As things stand you need a lot of financial backing to set up a website just for the purpose of political advertising. If one opinion is as important as another then funding shouldn't limit the spread of the thought. If we want to protect small emerging mediums from this legislation we simply say the legislation should only apply for mediums with a certain number of viewers/listeners, easily done.

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RE: the internet as quite a dangerous place - 12/27/2008 9:48:14 AM

Raechard

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Raechard, I'd have a problem with that.
First of all who the hell are they do "decide" anything?

They are the ones elected by the majority, this is how democracy works someone told me. It's important to respect the rights of the minority and that is hard I agree.

quote:

Secondly, what about those of us out here who don't belong to either "side?"
There's a lot more than just two "sides."

There should be no sides therefore when someone proposes something a new law etc, and is invited to talk about this law they should be given the chance to and an equal amount of time should be given to someone who opposes it. Is this so hard? It's not really about a government deciding on which views should be aired but ensuring all views are. They don't have any power other than to fine media outlets that don't follow a code of fairness with clearly defined criteria so everyone knows where they stand.

It already exists in some forms i.e. violence isn't shown on TV during the daytime, same mechanism.

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RE: the internet as quite a dangerous place - 12/27/2008 10:22:41 AM

Aneirin

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All information whatever it is should be available without hindrance or censorship, people should by virtue of them being people, equal to any other people should have the right to access all information, whatever takes their fancy, let them fill their boots. Those people who do not want to view certain material have the right not to view it, it is simple, don't access it, they access it, get offended, they have themselves to blame, no one other. Now if people who believe themselves in authority want to keep a beady eye on who is viewing certain material, let them do so, hey, it is supposed to be a free country. Crimes committed because of informatin viewed, if there is a correlation, then the security authorities can deal with crime as it happens, not if it happens.

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RE: the internet as quite a dangerous place - 12/27/2008 10:45:35 AM

Raechard

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That ideal breaks down when talking about the availability of weapons information or other security information. You can look on Wikipedia and find out how to make an atomic weapon. I don't think that is a good thing for security and I only know two types of people that would be interested in that type of information i.e. those with a natural curiosity for things and those that have other plans. Having said that knowing how to make one and having the resources to do so are worlds apart.

Also in the London during the bombings the mainstream media initially said the explosions were caused by substations near LU stations but then someone asked how that made a bus explode and they had to admit it was a terrorist act. The government rightly or wrongly tried to misinform people about it to reduce panic. It’s a difficult balance you don’t tell people there is a bomb if it will lead to more people dying in the stampede.

< Message edited by Raechard -- 12/27/2008 10:51:59 AM >

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RE: the internet as quite a dangerous place - 12/27/2008 10:49:28 AM

DesertRat

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~fr~
What works for me is not giving a fuck if "they" know...or think they know...what I say and do.

Bob (your friendly neighborhood unlawful enemy combatant)

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RE: the internet as quite a dangerous place - 12/27/2008 11:11:00 AM

rachel529

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dear lord... censorship is wrong, its the first thing any military takeover does- deny free press and hide information. what happened to 'question authority'?

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RE: the internet as quite a dangerous place - 12/27/2008 11:19:27 AM

Lorr47

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

So what are you saying. That government regulation of our information is good, so long as it's only regulating those with whom you personally disagree?

Left wingers are free to buy radio stations, and there are plenty on the Left who have the money. The only reason the Liberals in the United States Congress want our government to nuke American talk radio is that they've tried, and they've found that they can't succeed there because no one is willing to listen to them. "Air America" is a dismal failure, therefore the only answer is to "regulate" the rights of Right wingers... to talk and be heard.

Edited to add, the Left has almost a full monopoly on print and television media... and those are sponsored by "Big Business" as well. Yet I hear no call for government regulations against their content!

Why is that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

Humm but isn't it just as bad to only be able to listen to the opinions of radio sponsored by big business? Shouldn’t there be some restriction on political broadcasting and fair access to the mindless drones for all political parties?

Agree with Raechard. But, would I give up my nightly radio rendezvous with Doc Savadge just to get rid of Limbaugh and Hannity? No. It is amazing what an ultra conservative and an ultra liberal can agree on when it relates to what should be done to government and wall street.

< Message edited by Lorr47 -- 12/27/2008 11:20:15 AM >

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RE: the internet as quite a dangerous place - 12/27/2008 12:01:13 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

True, the internet is a dangerous place for governments, perhaps also an honest place. Honest in that governments actually get to read the sentiment of the people they are elected to govern, without somone putting any spin on it.

But for the rest of us, the world is a dangerous place, what with governments constantly causing problems the world over. The internet is a place where, we, the commoner, can rant at the doings of governments.

Maybe the reality is those in control fear the education we can share beyond their control.

Hi Aneirin

I have noticed your feelings on governments...but I think you need to understand YOU are responsible for your government’s actions. No one else...not even the so called..." hidden evil government"

That is the problem with our world ... few want to take responsibility for the actions of their leaders...This attitude breeds and enables the Hitler's of this world.

I refuse to be led by the nose or rant and rave about the mysterious all-powerful government. I will and have acted to change what I feel is the abuse of the constitution.

I edited to add... my comments are not a putdown in anyway...just my personal rant... I see this happening all over the world...this feeling that they can do nothing to change their government...this is not true anywhere or time...it just takes personal will and courage.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/27/2008 12:11:12 PM >

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RE: the internet as quite a dangerous place - 12/27/2008 3:34:50 PM

Aneirin

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I understand what you are saying, that there is no point moaning about something unless one is prepared to do something about the problem, but aside from registering one's distaste at the regime come polling day, there is not a lot else one can do, aside from add a name and digital signature to the the odd petition or two. In fact as it is anyone can start a petition, and any number of people can add their support to that petition, but do they ever get anywhere, aside from the filing cabinet under 'B' for bin. Personally I believe the MP's we elect believe they in being elected, speak on behalf of us, i.e. they believe they know better through being elected. Quite often a new face in the government who seeks to change often falls in line with the status quo, there under the belief that no matter how hard you try, you cannot buck the system.

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RE: the internet as quite a dangerous place - 12/27/2008 4:50:11 PM

monywildcat

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Will the government stop those annoying chain emails? The ones that use all sorts of intimidation to get me to forward them to 10 of my friends, or else I will suffer a million years of bad luck, no love life, all the mirrors in my house will shatter, and Jesus won't love me anymore?

On second thought, never mind. I wouldn't want to live in a country that has a government in place that prevents me from tormenting my friends and loved ones with these awful emails. However, if I get another sappy poem or survey in my inbox, I may become a dangerous place to be.

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RE: the internet as quite a dangerous place - 12/27/2008 8:53:29 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I understand what you are saying, that there is no point moaning about something unless one is prepared to do something about the problem, but aside from registering one's distaste at the regime come polling day, there is not a lot else one can do, aside from add a name and digital signature to the the odd petition or two. In fact as it is anyone can start a petition, and any number of people can add their support to that petition, but do they ever get anywhere, aside from the filing cabinet under 'B' for bin. Personally I believe the MP's we elect believe they in being elected, speak on behalf of us, i.e. they believe they know better through being elected. Quite often a new face in the government who seeks to change often falls in line with the status quo, there under the belief that no matter how hard you try, you cannot buck the system.

I'll admit...change is often slow in coming...at least in a democracy. That is because it is hard to change a majority view…Just take same sex marriage for instance…no matter what our views in this forum it is still the minority view...and it takes a majority for change.

As much as many here are against the war… 8 years ago most were for the war…in just the last few years that view has changed…and it showed in the election.

We in a free society are not as bad as many make us out to be…we do care and eventually we change for the better. We rein in the Bush’s of our country when necessary. We also make mistakes as a majority and we must stand up and take responsibility for those mistakes.

But change we do and that change is brought on by the average person on the street not some mysterious power broker pulling strings.

Butch

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RE: the internet as quite a dangerous place - 12/28/2008 1:15:40 AM

variation30

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quote:

ORIGINAL: steviemichael

The internet is quite a dangerous place so my grovenment says and plans to make it safe
and a crackdown on offensive and harmful online activity to be launched in the New Year,
So the question is this when safe is safe ? And when should we be so grateful that the powers to be are mirco protecting us?

don't question them. they have your safety in mind.

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RE: the internet as quite a dangerous place - 12/28/2008 2:05:16 AM

JustDarkness

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Censorship is the reason why Europe is worried about the USA controlling the "Internet" main servers.
Europe is worried about the USA and their "battle against terrorisme". I am not sure if they already changed the "ownership" situation of the www but it would be a good idea for the whole world. Shared responsibility will prevent weird things to happen

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RE: the internet as quite a dangerous place - 12/28/2008 4:46:17 AM

pahunkboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

Censorship is the reason why Europe is worried about the USA controlling the "Internet" main servers.
Europe is worried about the USA and their "battle against terrorisme". I am not sure if they already changed the "ownership" situation of the www but it would be a good idea for the whole world. Shared responsibility will prevent weird things to happen

The telecoms, transnational corporations are indeed a threat. they grip every last shred of grain, to monetize and commidize it. They will make the net as lame as the TV, and as lame as a park. A place where no one can ever be offended, and a place where creativity and protest is a corporate logo.

but this rule centralized control is gripping all the states...where the slimy fed law overrules state law. Where consumers and citizens are rendered non persons, no voice- no self determination.

maybe 12 states are close to bankruptcy. with others not far behind. centralized control has never stood the test of time. the collcetion of states will be more dynamic when we seceed.

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RE: the internet as quite a dangerous place - 12/28/2008 6:44:59 AM

rachel529

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this country was set up to be decentralized. now everyone says wtf happened. but the groundwork was laid 100 years ago. alas for those who sell out the masses for a percentage have well and truly fuked things up. i dont vote dem or rep. it hasnt made any difference yet...

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