Goldman Sachs cuts taxes to one percent by moving profits offshore (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> Goldman Sachs cuts taxes to one percent by moving profits offshore (12/18/2008 1:17:37 PM)

Bank takes $10 billion bailout, then cuts tax rate 33 percentSay you got a ten billion dollar loan to shore up your finances, and you paid your employees $10.9 billion, and you raked in $2.3 billion for the year.

What would you say you owed in taxes? One percent?

That's what you'd pay if you were Goldman Sachs, Inc. The high-flying brokerage -- and former home of Bush Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson -- has announced it's paying just $14 million in taxes this year.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Goldman_Sachs_tax_rate_drops_to_1218.html     /snip

Im sure the outfit is upstanding and very "American".
Goldman Sachs =  agent for the Brittish empire
Last year, their tax bill was $6 billion, or 34.1 percent. That represents a year-over-year drop of 33.1 percent.



Forbin70 -> RE: Goldman Sachs cuts taxes to one percent by moving profits offshore (12/18/2008 1:23:53 PM)

And the nut that comprises the Kennedy family fortune is sitting in a tax shelter in Fiji, yet Kennedy family members in elected positions constantly advocate raising taxes on hardworking business people who can't do that.  People who actually earned their money, I might add.

Individuals and companies are entitled to do what they want with their money, and tax avoidance is not only entirely ethical, it's smart.  No matter how it might look.



Steponme73 -> RE: Goldman Sachs cuts taxes to one percent by moving profits offshore (12/18/2008 2:02:52 PM)

They are not the only ones doing this.  All the major corporations have moved overseas.  Even Heinz Catsup....Sen Kerry's wife's company went overseas along time ago to forego taxes.



HunterS -> RE: Goldman Sachs cuts taxes to one percent by moving profits offshore (12/18/2008 3:34:40 PM)

quote:

Individuals and companies are entitled to do what they want with their money, and tax avoidance is not only entirely ethical, it's smart.  No matter how it might look.


You would not call it ethical to shop in a store and not pay for what you walked out with in your cart.
You would not call it ethical to belong to a club and not pay dues like all the other members.
But you think it is ethical to be a citizen of the USA and not pay your fair share of its upkeep.
Tax avoidence is certainly legal and as you say smart but puuleeeeeze get a dictionary and look up the word ethical.
 
H.



HunterS -> RE: Goldman Sachs cuts taxes to one percent by moving profits offshore (12/18/2008 3:52:32 PM)

quote:

They are not the only ones doing this. All the major corporations have moved overseas. Even Heinz Catsup....Sen Kerry's wife's company went overseas along time ago to forego taxes.


Let me see if I have this right:
There are rich low life asswipes(who can afford to pay taxes) who are both demopubs and republicrats who take a free ride while the not rich pay taxes.
Did I miss anything?
I just do not understand why not rich people always get involved in fingerpointing at the opposite party from themselves to justify being fucked in the ass without lube by those of their own party. 
Don't they recognize that being fucked in the ass without lube is the same no mater who does it to you?
 
H.



Forbin70 -> RE: Goldman Sachs cuts taxes to one percent by moving profits offshore (12/18/2008 4:51:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

quote:

Individuals and companies are entitled to do what they want with their money, and tax avoidance is not only entirely ethical, it's smart.  No matter how it might look.


You would not call it ethical to shop in a store and not pay for what you walked out with in your cart.
You would not call it ethical to belong to a club and not pay dues like all the other members.
But you think it is ethical to be a citizen of the USA and not pay your fair share of its upkeep.
Tax avoidence is certainly legal and as you say smart but puuleeeeeze get a dictionary and look up the word ethical.
 
H.


You might have a point if we were talking about being a member of a club or shopping in a store...Both of which are voluntary, by the way.  Paying taxes are not.  You might also have a point if we had a tax system was actually "fair."  Like a flat tax.  But we don't.  The government is too greedy for that so we have the mess we currently have.

"Fair share" is a grey area.....Brought to you by our ridiculously complex tax code.  We collectively spend trillions annually just attempting to comply with the tax code....That's before any tax is even paid.  Companies pay a cadre of accountants to sort out what they think their tax liability is and they pay it....If the IRS thinks the number looks right they accept it and move on.  If not there's an audit and the IRS comes up with what they think that company's liability is and they work it out.  At no point in this process does anything resembling exactitude enter the picture.

It goes to say that, under such a system, there will be those who will find a short path through the woods, so to speak.



Musicmystery -> RE: Goldman Sachs cuts taxes to one percent by moving profits offshore (12/18/2008 5:00:47 PM)

I will never cease to be amazed at the millions of Americans willing to pay more taxes to defend tax breaks for people earning far more than they.

Hell, I'd even argue for the ones that fund public works, renewable energy, etc., but still.

But then, I don't get people dumping their money into lotto either.





HunterS -> RE: Goldman Sachs cuts taxes to one percent by moving profits offshore (12/18/2008 5:25:27 PM)

quote:

You might have a point if we were talking about being a member of a club or shopping in a store...Both of which are voluntary 


Membership in the club called citizen of the USA is voluntary.  That wall at the boarder is to keep foriegners out not citizens in.  You can leave anytime you choose. 
My feeling is that if you are in my club then you should pay your dues like everyone else.
 
quote:

You might also have a point if we had a tax system was actually "fair."  Like a flat tax.
 
A flat tax is anything but fair.  A flat tax is "regressive".
If you make a million dollars a year you pay 100,000 in taxes and have 900,000 left over as discretionary income.
If you make 10,000 you pay 1,000 and have 9,000 for discretionary income.
If you can't live on 10,000 how can you live on 9,000?
The person who makes 1,000,000 consumes more of the benifits of my country and consequently should pay more.  Just like at the grocery store if you put more in your cart you pay more.
 
To address the other part of your statement...I agree we do not have a fair tax system in my country because it allows the rich to pay virtually nothing while the not rich have to pick up the slack.
Couple this with waging wars of aggression and aggrandizement and the gifts of taxpayers money to corporations who have proven themselves incompetent and the squeeze just gets tighter.

 
 
H.



housesub4you -> RE: Goldman Sachs cuts taxes to one percent by moving profits offshore (12/18/2008 5:37:07 PM)

What is evgeryone bitching about??? We the people elect them, so stop your whining and perhaps support someone other than a major party person



Musicmystery -> RE: Goldman Sachs cuts taxes to one percent by moving profits offshore (12/18/2008 5:42:50 PM)

quote:

Membership in the club called citizen of the USA is voluntary.  That wall at the boarder is to keep foriegners out not citizens in.  You can leave anytime you choose. 


That's rather gilb.

Perhaps people will leave everything behind to go to Notaxia.



Forbin70 -> RE: Goldman Sachs cuts taxes to one percent by moving profits offshore (12/18/2008 5:43:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS
The person who makes 1,000,000 consumes more of the benifits of my country and consequently should pay more.


The million dollar earner in your example did pay more.  100 times more than the 10k earner, at that.  Not to mention, in the real world, the 10k earner is exempt from income tax anyway.

Looks fair to me.



Lordandmaster -> RE: Goldman Sachs cuts taxes to one percent by moving profits offshore (12/18/2008 5:44:27 PM)

Yay, let's bail out Goldman Sachs with taxpayer money!

Wait...we already DID?



susie -> RE: Goldman Sachs cuts taxes to one percent by moving profits offshore (12/18/2008 5:44:47 PM)

Its 2a.m. here so I am probably not functioning that well but I am not sure I understand this bit

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Goldman Sachs =  agent for the Brittish empire




Forbin70 -> RE: Goldman Sachs cuts taxes to one percent by moving profits offshore (12/18/2008 5:48:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS
You can leave anytime you choose. 


Maybe you should leave and take the rest of the socialists with you.  Canada and Europe will love to have you.



Musicmystery -> RE: Goldman Sachs cuts taxes to one percent by moving profits offshore (12/18/2008 5:50:18 PM)

Then we can get back to the glory days of U.S. capitalism, when monopolies owned 90% of banks, railroads, steel....

...until the damn socialists, like Teddy Roosevelt.



HunterS -> RE: Goldman Sachs cuts taxes to one percent by moving profits offshore (12/18/2008 5:54:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

What is evgeryone bitching about??? We the people elect them, so stop your whining and perhaps support someone other than a major party person


Actually no.  The president is appointed not elected.  He is appointed by the electoral college which in turn is appointed by the state legislature which is in turn is voted on by the electorate from a pre-selected list of "approved" candidates...Kinda like Russia.  Except they have one party and we have two.
Don't you feel better now?
 
H.



HunterS -> RE: Goldman Sachs cuts taxes to one percent by moving profits offshore (12/18/2008 6:07:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Forbin70

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS
You can leave anytime you choose. 


Maybe you should leave and take the rest of the socialists with you.  Canada and Europe will love to have you.

It is more than a little disingenuous to take part of a quote and make your arguement from it.
It would appear that you are against socialism.  That would mean that you would be against the government monopolies on alcohol,public utilities like electricity,natural gas,sewage,water,police and fire protection and the like.
That would mean that you would also be agains things like trade unions,public schools and public highways.
If you do not like living in a society then why don't you go someplace where there are no people. 
The reasons that the founding fathers commited treason are  listed in the preamble.  Among which are to provide for the common welfare...not the welfare of the rich,clever and unscrupulous.
Socialism is the concept of society working togeather for the advancement of that society.  If you have a different definition of socialism please state it and we can discuss it.
 
H.



HunterS -> RE: Goldman Sachs cuts taxes to one percent by moving profits offshore (12/18/2008 6:09:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Forbin70

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS
The person who makes 1,000,000 consumes more of the benifits of my country and consequently should pay more.


The million dollar earner in your example did pay more.  100 times more than the 10k earner, at that.  Not to mention, in the real world, the 10k earner is exempt from income tax anyway.

Looks fair to me.


In your flat tax world, which is where this example is the ten K earner is taxed.
 
H.



HunterS -> RE: Goldman Sachs cuts taxes to one percent by moving profits offshore (12/18/2008 6:11:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Membership in the club called citizen of the USA is voluntary.  That wall at the boarder is to keep foriegners out not citizens in.  You can leave anytime you choose. 


That's rather gilb.

Perhaps people will leave everything behind to go to Notaxia.


If they choose to go to Notaxia they may not take more than $10,000 with them according to the government rules.
 
H.



Musicmystery -> RE: Goldman Sachs cuts taxes to one percent by moving profits offshore (12/18/2008 6:13:29 PM)

LOL

Well done.



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