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Free flowing... - 12/13/2008 10:42:27 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		hi there, just thought of this topic, now to put it into words.

What do you think of " Being natural vs being self-disciplined"

Guess asking for the dominant and submissive perspective.

For the context of the topic:

Submissive/slave types
 
Being natural = Just expressing who you are in the moment with no filter. So basically allowing your dominant partner free access to your thoughts, moods, feelings as they happen.

Being self disciplined = Processing your thoughts, feelings, moods before you express them to your dominant partner.

What are the positives and negatives you can see in both?

For the dominant types:

How would you prefer your submissive/slave to be and why?

For the switches:

Is it different for you regarding the role you are in at the time?


Hope this is a good topic

< Message edited by slavejali -- 12/13/2008 10:59:49 PM >

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RE: Free flowing... - 12/13/2008 10:48:25 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali
What do you think of "Being natural vs being self-disciplined"

Well how about the switch perspective so you get both?

To me I immediately think "So they poop and pee in their pants all the time?" 

quote:

Submissive/slave types

Being natural = Just expressing who you are in the moment with no filter. So basically allowing your dominant partner free access to your thoughts, moods, feelings as they happen.

Being self disciplined = Processing your thoughts, feelings, moods before you express them to your dominant partner.

What are the positives and negatives you can see in both?

Well the positive and negatives are the same- the issue here is context.

Sometimes filtering is good, sometimes filtering isn't good.  The trick is knowing which is which.

quote:

For the domninant types:
How would you prefer your submissive/slave to be and why?

I'd prefer them to ask if they weren't sure.  But generally, I want a mature adult who already had a pretty darn good grasp of when it's appropriate to filter and when it isn't.  Call me lazy, but I don't want to train at that basic a level anymore. 

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RE: Free flowing... - 12/13/2008 11:00:25 PM   
utopicus


Posts: 97
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Hello...

Yes, it's a good topic... now, let me see...
Is it possible that a submissive be simultaneously both self-disciplined and natural? It might happen when - having been in a relationship with a Dominant for some time - one has acquired, let's call them: "manners" derived from observing the good old protocol. I'm not talking about obedience, but about "boundaries" and a certain demeanour that conveys the elements of respect and consideration owed to the Dominant figure. And the same applies to the Dominant. It's always the respect and consideration that should govern - in my mind, at least - all relationships, regardless of their kinky component.
However, one enters any relationship - let's say: unpolished, and learns and adapts one's behaviour to harmonise with the other one's expectations. I firmly believe that all of us grow and somehow "perfect" ourselves - we become better by interacting with others.
I personally don't believe that a submissive has the ability to concede their true nature to any Dominant. A Dominant is not necessarily the one who grabs the whip and administer 60 strokes, but who dominates mentally and spiritually in the first instance. It is this kind of Dominant who demands respect and at whose feet any submissive should find peace.
As time progresses, this self-discipline becomes the second nature. Is this a bad thing? No, Sir.

Regards,

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RE: Free flowing... - 12/13/2008 11:08:19 PM   
FaithBlue


Posts: 32
Joined: 9/10/2008
Status: offline 		Sir requires my free-flowing honesty.

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RE: Free flowing... - 12/13/2008 11:09:42 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		Positives I can see in being natural:

I am allowing master full access to me, nothing kept secret. It's almost like sharing a secret, its intimate.
Whereas in everyday life, I dont grant people that access to myself.

Negatives I can see in being natural:

I could hurt my master by expressing something I havent processed in a moment of weakness...but then again I would hope he knew me well enough that he knows im just expressing something that im processing and sharing with him is my way of including him...I dunno..im pretty much in favor of the natural thingy...and I dont think ive ever said anything to hurt him even in my most "expressive" moment lol.

Positives I can see in being self-disciplined:

Master is pretty self-disciplined individual when it comes to feelings and thoughts so I guess if  I was more self-disciplined I would be a truer reflection of him..but then again I dont think he would want me to be him..so...umm

Negatives I can see in being self-disciplined:

I'd feel like I lost part of myself and was acting like a robot or something. Id feel like I wasnt sharing all of myself and Id feel like I was cheating him out of part of me or something.

Anyways, just thoughts, they might change...



< Message edited by slavejali -- 12/13/2008 11:12:17 PM >

_____________________________

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Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

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RE: Free flowing... - 12/14/2008 5:30:30 AM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		I am a switch.  As a Domme I train my subs to respond to the word "emotions".  That is their signal to tell me what emotions they are feeling at that moment.  In many cases it is right after I have explained a new task.  If a sub cannot be honest with me about how they feel I do not keep them as a sub.  I neither expect, nor want, a running commentary on how they are feeling but I want them to know that there is a time and place for it.  If they choose to email me and tell me about their feelings it is always welcomed but not demanded.

This has shaped how I look at it as a slave.  I am not transparent to my Master.  He would feel burdened if I shared each and every emotion and concern with him.  I filter, as you say, what to tell him.  While I feel that we are close and have a strong bond I don't feel it necessary to tell him how frustrated I was when the kitten knocked over the frying pan or the fact that I was happy when the cat food was on sale.  If it was something important, like when I was proud when I won an award last fall and wanted to share that with someone, then he is the first to know. 

When I hear subs say that they share every single emotion they have with their Doms then I sometimes wonder if the Doms are ever sorry that they asked for that much transparency and if it doesn't tire them out sometimes.  I'm sure it works great in some relationships but it wouldn't in mine.


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RE: Free flowing... - 12/14/2008 6:08:19 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		My opinion is that too much of life teaches us to shut down and hide our emotions. I know I've become very good at it.

I don't want my girl to hide anything from me. I don't care what she expresses, however she feels, I already know I can handle it. I don't want her filtering anything for fear of hurting or upsetting me in any way. I would much rather have it there, to deal with, if indeed it needs dealt with. Sometimes, acknowledgement, is enough.

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RE: Free flowing... - 12/14/2008 7:45:35 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I'm not supposed to filter my emotions, I'm to give him all of it and allow him to decide what I need.
But then our big focus is emotional transparency.

I worry sometimes about dumping on him, but as the years go on, I worry less. He likes knowing I come to him, let him sort it out, trust him enough to give him the messy side of me without having to pretty it up to make sure he isn't revolted and leaves.

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RE: Free flowing... - 12/14/2008 8:15:47 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		I think its a bit of a trick question.

Everyone is at least a bit of both, so we aren't really choosing between one or the other.  We're just debating whether someone prefers more of one or the other in the mix.

What I mean to say is, I wouldn't want a slave suddenly announcing in the middle of a business deal or in front of my grandmother that she loved the way I beat and fucked her last night.  Neither would I want her to petulantly stomp her foot and pout when I deny her something she wanted.  So there is some degree of filtering desired.  On the other hand I don't want her to hold back when we're snuggling in the morning and talking openly about whatever comes to mind.  If I ask her honest opinion on something... that's what I want.

Everything has its place.  What I prefer is for her to know which is which.

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Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Free flowing... - 12/14/2008 11:10:51 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		There's a time and a place for both.

Life is a balancing act. Know when to choose one over the other.

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RE: Free flowing... - 12/14/2008 11:17:03 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		My short view based on how I see the terms defined here would be: self-discipline when it comes to actions and decisions, being natural when it comes to thoughts and emotions (and therefore communication).

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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: Free flowing... - 12/14/2008 11:23:39 AM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

For the dominant types:

How would you prefer your submissive/slave to be and why?

Hope this is a good topic


slavejali, I think it's a great topic.
 
I prefer natural and free flowing.  I want the truth, always.  I don't need it filtered or candy coated for me, I am a big girl and I wear my big girl panties most of the time.  I rarely get my feelings hurt, and when I do, it's usually because of something within me not what someone else said.
 
I'm trying to think of a situation in which I would want someone, anyone close to me, to filter their thoughts or feelings, and I really can't.  The people in my life are people whose thoughts and opinions I value.  I can't imagine not wanting them to be completely honest with me.
 
I think coming from a submissive/slave is no different.  I wouldn't have someone in my life whose thoughts and opinions didn't matter or were of little consequence to me.  I also think that the only way to learn about someone is through communication of feelings, thoughts, ideas, and opinions.  How else will I know what affects them and how if they don't tell me? 
 
The negatives to filtering, simply, not being honest about who you are, how you feel, what's going on with you.

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"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


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RE: Free flowing... - 12/14/2008 1:04:50 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		It seems you have a very different impression of being natural as compared to me.  I don't see Self-discipline as being contrary to being natural nor do I see being natural is an unfiltered expression of self.

I think being natural to be the authentic expression of ones inner self.  Such expression can be made with a variety of behaviors with a variety of effort to express the behavior.  But regardless of the behavior or effort to demonstrate said behavior it will be an honest expression of the thoughts and feelings of a person.  Now such expression can be expressed in a postive and contructive manner or a negative and destructive manner.  I personally like someone to positively and constructively express their natural self as oppose to negative or destructive ways.  I find one to be more conducive to relationship development than the other even though both maybe naturally expressing their inner self.

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Free flowing... - 12/14/2008 6:06:41 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		Fast Reply:

Loved reading the responses to this topic, thankyou to everyone who contributed to far, every response is so thoughtful

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

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RE: Free flowing... - 12/14/2008 6:22:08 PM   
kristileigh


Posts: 1078
Joined: 3/23/2008
Status: offline 		Master says i am a bit a of both.

Natural
Pros: get things of off my chest and don't let it build up.
Cons: i tend to get into trouble because i blow up and say something i shouldn't of.

Self disciplined:
Pros:Think about things a bit before approaching subject
Cons: Sometimes i keep things bottled up and i tell Master there is nothing wrong and He knows different and i get into trouble for lying to Him about what was bothering me.

Just this morning i was yelling at Him before i thought about what was happening. i did get punished for that, as much as He could with a teenager here in the house. He said He will continue the punishment tonight.

slave kristi


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proud submissive/slave belonging heart and soul to
Master Chris!

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RE: Free flowing... - 12/14/2008 6:23:30 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		I want there to be thought and processing, particularly regarding action; emotions can be discussed spontaneously with or without pre-processing.  This is my preference regardless of the side of the kneel of which we speak. 
  Davan

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