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Detroit to Complete My Life - 11/26/2008 8:08:31 PM

SoundtheSurrendr

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Joined: 11/26/2008
From: Toledo, OH
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The perfect season in reverse...who else is rooting for Detroit's ultimate fail?

And I'm still paying 100 bucks a pop for tickets to see the Browns. What a robbery.

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RE: Detroit to Complete My Life - 11/26/2008 8:53:29 PM

MzMia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoundtheSurrendr

The perfect season in reverse...who else is rooting for Detroit's ultimate fail?

And I'm still paying 100 bucks a pop for tickets to see the Browns. What a robbery.

You would lose this bet my friend.
Detroit will get assistance in "some form", it might not be a "bail out".
But they will get some form of assistance, "with strings attached", you can bet your last money on that.
Peace

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RE: Detroit to Complete My Life - 11/27/2008 3:28:10 AM

KatyLied

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Count me in with the many fans who think it is ridiculous to showcase a 0-11 team on Thanksgiving.

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RE: Detroit to Complete My Life - 11/27/2008 3:33:05 AM

ratio

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Detroit playing on Thanksgiving day is a tradtion that has nothing to do with win records.

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RE: Detroit to Complete My Life - 11/27/2008 5:51:39 AM

pahunkboy

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From: Central Pennsylvania
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I do mind the working families that would suffer tho- Im thinking bankrupsty protection would not be as bad as it sounds. the management there and other places should be completely replaced.

after the 1st trillion, it hardly matters... we are going down...all of us. toss the dog a bone.

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RE: Detroit to Complete My Life - 11/27/2008 5:55:54 AM

KatyLied

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quote:

Detroit playing on Thanksgiving day is a tradtion that has nothing to do with win records.

Please, I get the tradition part. I'm just not too excited about the prospect of boredom. Especially when there are better games the NFL could easily slot in place of Detroit.

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RE: Detroit to Complete My Life - 11/27/2008 11:52:15 PM

sasseeNshy

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I have to agree with Ms. Katy.........tradition....whatever...........for as much energy and spunk you put into your American Thanksgiving.....there are much more entertaining teams that could have captivated your attention than the Detroit BlowOut.......I'm sure it will be called worse....laughs

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RE: Detroit to Complete My Life - 11/28/2008 2:34:58 AM

housesub4you

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Traditon????? The NFL does not care about tradition unless they can make money off it. No Pro sport teams care about traditon, its all money, they preach tradition to keep fans, but have no problem forgetting about tradition when it comes to renaming a staduim for money, or anything else.

But the teams where picked last year when they made the schedule and who knew the Lions would be soooooo badddd...

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RE: Detroit to Complete My Life - 11/28/2008 2:43:41 AM

julietsierra

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lol... it's both funny and sad to realize that half of the posters are talking football and half of the posters are talking economics and all of the posters are talking about the same thing - the trouble that Detroit is having right now.

My mom is a terrible bowler - absolutely terrible. However, year after year when she was younger, she and my dad would join bowling leagues. And week after week, she'd go bowling. I once asked her why she does this when the balls she throws seems to have such affinity with the gutters. I mean, she was one of the single most consistent last placers I've ever known. Her response was "hey, either I want to win first place or last. No one ever remembers the folks in the middle. Besides, one of these times I'm going to be so darn good, I'll be in first place" And we'd laugh and laugh and laugh. Darned if she didn't do it too one year! She stopped joining leagues after that..

So... right now, we're last - in football and in the economy. And y'all can laugh and laugh and laugh all you want. But we'll be up there again.

It can happen. Mom said so, and darned if she wasn't right before.

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 11/28/2008 2:45:17 AM >

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RE: Detroit to Complete My Life - 11/28/2008 7:32:51 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

Traditon????? The NFL does not care about tradition unless they can make money off it. No Pro sport teams care about traditon, its all money, they preach tradition to keep fans, but have no problem forgetting about tradition when it comes to renaming a staduim for money, or anything else.

But the teams where picked last year when they made the schedule and who knew the Lions would be soooooo badddd...

ummm....anyone who lives in the area and has been paying attention for the last 20 years or more. I never watch football and even I know the Lions suck.

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RE: Detroit to Complete My Life - 11/28/2008 8:30:39 AM

LadyHibiscus

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*adores Juliet and her mom*

Thanks, hon, these anti Detroit folks really make my head explode.

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RE: Detroit to Complete My Life - 11/28/2008 9:18:18 AM

PrincessJ77

Posts: 372
Joined: 7/25/2008
From: point A
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How 'bout having the Lions play away games on Thanksgiving? This was you'll have tradition & the game won't be blacked out if tix aren't sold. Another suggestion on ESPN was to have them play on the NFL network and not have to worry about the blackout.

We had a side bet on whether Tennessee would cover the "over/under" by themselves in the first half.
At least Detroit has other controversies to talk about, too.
http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=nba/news/news.aspx?id=4194216

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RE: Detroit to Complete My Life - 11/28/2008 10:01:46 AM

UncleNasty

Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

lol... it's both funny and sad to realize that half of the posters are talking football and half of the posters are talking economics and all of the posters are talking about the same thing - the trouble that Detroit is having right now.

My mom is a terrible bowler - absolutely terrible. However, year after year when she was younger, she and my dad would join bowling leagues. And week after week, she'd go bowling. I once asked her why she does this when the balls she throws seems to have such affinity with the gutters. I mean, she was one of the single most consistent last placers I've ever known. Her response was "hey, either I want to win first place or last. No one ever remembers the folks in the middle. Besides, one of these times I'm going to be so darn good, I'll be in first place" And we'd laugh and laugh and laugh. Darned if she didn't do it too one year! She stopped joining leagues after that..

So... right now, we're last - in football and in the economy. And y'all can laugh and laugh and laugh all you want. But we'll be up there again.

It can happen. Mom said so, and darned if she wasn't right before.

juliet

I have a friend married for 20 or so years. Marriage can kind of cloister us, even when we try to remain active and diverse. Her attitude and behavior after her divorce were to just go out and try anything she had never done before. I quote her here:

"Anything worth doing is worth doing mediocre."

A wisdom in that, even if it might be a bit perverse to my usual thinking, LOL.

One handed Uncle Nasty

(in reply to julietsierra)

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RE: Detroit to Complete My Life - 11/28/2008 2:02:40 PM

Lorr47

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I do mind the working families that would suffer tho- Im thinking bankrupsty protection would not be as bad as it sounds. the management there and other places should be completely replaced.

after the 1st trillion, it hardly matters... we are going down...all of us. toss the dog a bone.

Chapter 11 Bankruptcy requires a lending source to succeed. Since there is no lending source Chapter 11 automatically becomes a Chapter 7 liquidation.

< Message edited by Lorr47 -- 11/28/2008 2:03:58 PM >

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RE: Detroit to Complete My Life - 11/28/2008 2:09:19 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

Chapter 11 Bankruptcy requires a lending source to succeed. Since there is no lending source Chapter 11 automatically becomes a Chapter 7 liquidation.

If there is no lending source.

In the case of the Big Three--has that question been even asked (not just hypothetically here, but in actuality by the CEOs in question)?

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RE: Detroit to Complete My Life - 11/28/2008 2:44:00 PM

Lorr47

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Chapter 11 Bankruptcy requires a lending source to succeed. Since there is no lending source Chapter 11 automatically becomes a Chapter 7 liquidation.

If there is no lending source.

In the case of the Big Three--has that question been even asked (not just hypothetically here, but in actuality by the CEOs in question)?

The Nobel Laureate who recently won the prize in Economics bitch slapped George Will so bad with the lending argument that Will did not say another word for 15 minutes. Of all people Sam Donaldson jumped in and dragged the Nobel Prize winner off of Will's twitching corpse. Yes, the question has been asked and answered. The problem is that conservatives avoid asking the difficult questions because then they would have to think about what the answers mean.

< Message edited by Lorr47 -- 11/28/2008 2:45:38 PM >

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RE: Detroit to Complete My Life - 11/28/2008 2:59:56 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

The Nobel Laureate who recently won the prize in Economics bitch slapped George Will so bad with the lending argument that Will did not say another word for 15 minutes.

Paul Krugman is an arrogant ass on the best of days, but Nobel Prize notwithstanding, his statements on point are about as directly relevant to Ford, Chrysler, and GM as any statements made here (i.e., not relevant at all).

I will restate for simplicity:

Have the CEOs of Ford, Chrysler, and GM sought out and failed to find potential lending sources for navigating a Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceeding?

GM CEO Rick Wagoner's argument against Chapter 11 does not mention a lack of lending sources, but rather the fear that people will stop buying GM products if they go into Chapter 11.

The assertion that there are no lending sources for a Chapter 11 proceeding is untested, unproven, unsupported, and is better described as hysteria than reasoned discourse.

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RE: Detroit to Complete My Life - 11/28/2008 3:48:38 PM

Lorr47

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

The Nobel Laureate who recently won the prize in Economics bitch slapped George Will so bad with the lending argument that Will did not say another word for 15 minutes.

Paul Krugman is an arrogant ass on the best of days, but Nobel Prize notwithstanding, his statements on point are about as directly relevant to Ford, Chrysler, and GM as any statements made here (i.e., not relevant at all).

I will restate for simplicity:

Have the CEOs of Ford, Chrysler, and GM sought out and failed to find potential lending sources for navigating a Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceeding?

GM CEO Rick Wagoner's argument against Chapter 11 does not mention a lack of lending sources, but rather the fear that people will stop buying GM products if they go into Chapter 11.

The assertion that there are no lending sources for a Chapter 11 proceeding is untested, unproven, unsupported, and is better described as hysteria than reasoned discourse.

Lord, if Paul Krugman is an arrogant ass, your job description has been filled. Have you been fired ?

The lending question has been discussed in various areas of the internet and government for weeks. However, you have to be able to read. The answer has always been that the lenders will not lend because the conservatives have so screwed up the system for the last eight years that it may be years before reasonable law abiding people can rescue the economy from the conservatives/thieves.

I do not know who the management of the automakers have called and unlike you I do not claim to be omniscient. (Of course, if I ever want to know what god is thinking I will ask you.) Take a valium.

Even Buchanan has abandoned the bluster and commented two weeks ago that if the republicans/conservatives did not put aside politics and work to save the economy rather than trying to torpedo the incoming administration that there might not be a republican/conservative above dog catcher in the U.S. If Buchanan is slated for dog catcher, I think your future is indeed bleak.

Now, the Nobel Laureate in Economics claims that the lenders will not lend into a Chapter 11. HOWEVER, Celticlord disagrees. Lets see, based on my 30 plus years practicing law punctuated by bankruptcy practice and five years in economics, I will give you one guess who I believe. You are amusing but do not translate that into believable. You utilize every tactic in the obstructionist arsenal. I tend to ignore obstructionists and other than this temporary lapse will go back to ignoring you. Bye.

< Message edited by Lorr47 -- 11/28/2008 4:06:04 PM >

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RE: Detroit to Complete My Life - 11/28/2008 4:02:53 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

The answer has always been that the lenders will not lend because the conservatives have so screwed up the system for the last eight years that it may be years before reasonable law abiding people can rescue the economy from the conservatives/thieves.

As an "answer", that argument is beyond absurd. If that's the best Paul Krugman has to offer, he needs to hand back both his Nobel Prize and his PhD, because he is utterly undeserving of either.

If no lender will lend, then there is no economy to be rescued, and thus nothing to bail out. Game over, season over, time to start anew.

Yet people still have credit cards that work, they still have jobs, they still borrow money (and most even pay it back).

Lenders are lending.

Moreover, the notion of a pre-packaged Chapter 11 has been explored, but the ones rejecting the Chapter 11 proceeding are Rick Wagoner and his ilk--but not on the basis of lack of lending sources.

The issue is not whether there are lenders to lend (there are) but whether Rick Wagoner, et al, will make the necessary concessions accommodations to make lending to them a reasonable proposition. So far, Mr. Wagoner seems more focused on getting a handout to continue business as usual, after the fashion of his Wall Street colleagues--but that is not the same as not having viable lending sources.

If GM as a company is so badly hosed that lending them money to reorganize is a bad idea, how is a government bailout of that same company any better? If the Big Three are that decrepit as a whole, why is it necessary to dole out still more of MY (taxpayer) money to sustain them?

< Message edited by celticlord2112 -- 11/28/2008 4:03:13 PM >

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RE: Detroit to Complete My Life - 11/28/2008 4:06:52 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoundtheSurrendr

The perfect season in reverse...who else is rooting for Detroit's ultimate fail?

And I'm still paying 100 bucks a pop for tickets to see the Browns. What a robbery.

Problem is, if things remain as they are the Fords who don't know who to hire, will still make a profit.

Lion fans now should be speculating on the no. 1 draft choice and make sure it is a wide receiver with lottsa head problems. Then in 2010 they'll get another 1st. pick.

The auto manufactures have been run by corporate capitalists in the same fashion that wall street has been run by banking capitalists and the same culture of easy money through financial profits would last forever.

Thus their own narrow greed sets-in and there you have it...bankrupt companies owing $100's of billions that is debt the extent of which...the remaining marketplace wants no part.

So kinkroids the whole reason any business is begging govt. for anything is not only drawn from their typical, liberal, culture of dependency and the sense of entitlement that breeds and but also because they know they are too big to fail, they'll include warrants (contractual conversion to stock) IF they ever come back and...will get the money (loan guarantees).

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