RE: INTERVENING...

RE: INTERVENING... (Full Version)

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tsatske -> RE: INTERVENING... (11/27/2008 8:01:39 AM)
Exactly what damage is happening when I get flogged, single tailed, caned or paddled on my lower spine? My lower spine is what Master calls a 'sweet spot' for me. He can bring me to orgams just playing it with his fingertips, like it's a mandolin or something. Imagine how much it fucking hurts when his crop or carpet beater hit there? Oh, yeah... I haven't noticed the numbing thing at all, I have to say. Clearly he is not doing damage to the nerves there, since that 'play her to orgasm' thing still works. If hitting there is bad enough to be worth intervening, how bad is a rapidly vibrating needle stuck in a few thousand times, sterile but injecting a forienghn substance?

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: INTERVENING... (11/27/2008 8:37:09 AM)
The responsibility a DM takes on represents a great deal more than whether or not the bottom in a scene is safe. There are other, as important issues, to consider. House rules, while not a guarantee of protection, exist as a check and balance to keep a play space running efficient for the enjoyment and safety of the majority, as well as the individual. Intervention, in my experience, is rare. It should be. If a DM ever loses sight that they are a servant to the group dynamic, and erringly confuses responsibility with power, then you begin to see intervention become an issue. This does happen, but it then becomes more of a management issue than a BDSM one. I keep coming at intervention from a club/public approach. Intervention from a personl approach, between those in a close intimate circle or friendship, is a completely different matter.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: INTERVENING... (11/27/2008 8:50:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tsatske Exactly what damage is happening when I get flogged, single tailed, caned or paddled on my lower spine? My lower spine is what Master calls a 'sweet spot' for me. He can bring me to orgams just playing it with his fingertips, like it's a mandolin or something. Imagine how much it fucking hurts when his crop or carpet beater hit there? Oh, yeah... I haven't noticed the numbing thing at all, I have to say. Clearly he is not doing damage to the nerves there, since that 'play her to orgasm' thing still works. If hitting there is bad enough to be worth intervening, how bad is a rapidly vibrating needle stuck in a few thousand times, sterile but injecting a forienghn substance? The lower spine is a nerve-heavy region. It is also close to the surface and capable of sustaining microfractures relatively easily. Bruising or hematoma in the area can disrupt nerve function, and progressive or prolonged damage in that area can affect lower-body function over time (ie, the ability to walk). The vibrating needle and injecting a foreign substance is, again, risk-laden for nerve damage in the area. The fact that you still have the use of your legs does not ameliorate the risk... the next time could be the time that leaves you a paraplegic. It also has the potential to be lethal, depending on what he's injecting and whether what he is injecting can be absorbed through the highly vascular area into the bloodstream, or absorbed into the epidural space of the spinal chord. I'd say that I'm happy to hear you're enjoying it, and that it hasn't damaged you so far, but you clearly didn't give informed consent since you don't understand the risks. The risks are not insubstantial, so now that you know, you may want to re-evaluate.

ftmyersartist -> RE: INTERVENING... (11/27/2008 9:00:49 AM)
Here is my final thought on this subject and then I’ll let it go. And this is just my opinion, others have their own thoughts and I do not discount them. First. . . I am pretty sure your dominant is not hitting your spine base with a paddle or you’d be paralyzed. You know in football when wide receivers go up and get tackled and end up paralyzed? That’s where they get hit. He’s working the area below that, not the upper tailbone and lower spine. Second. . . I do not understand and will never understand a dominant saying “If someone stopped me and my sub I’d be pissed.” I hope to god that if some time I was for some reason having a really off night and didn’t realize I was doing something wrong that someone would step in. What kind of selfishness does it take to prefer a submissive to endure damage rather then admit you made a mistake. They don’t have to jump in with dramatics . . . but since I am not omnipotent (unlike it seems many here abouts. . .sorry. . . I don’t know all and see all) it is very possible to miss a sign from the sub. I usually don’t. . . I’m usually very connected to the sub but if I do . . . I hope another dominant or submissive is there to give me a heads up. This brings me to my real point. People seem to have such a major hard-on to never admit they make a mistake . . . to never ever be wrong. To prove that they can play and take anything no matter if it fucks them or someone else up. The one thing you can count on when you start BDSM is that you will make at least one big mistake. Everyone does. It is not a lack of skill or lack of effort or care . . . just at some point something will go wrong. It doesn’t make you less of a dominant to make a mistake. . .it makes you more of one to be able to admit it, learn from it, and move on. I have had dungeon monitors breeze by on many occasions just checking if everything is ok . . . I play hard and it sounds like a five alarm crime scene . . . they are just checkin to make sure everything is cool. When they do I am neither offended nor put off. They are watching out for the sub and that is cool . . . I like that. Whenever I know someone is watching out for someone I care about, I feel gratitude not insulted. Part of public play is being safe and not doing stupid shit that will involve the entire party in a criminal or civil investigation. There are a lot of people out there hitting other people that really don’t know what they are doing. The idea that people should just let em have at it and not ever point out when they are being stupid because they might insult them is really fucked up in my book. The BDSM community was built on people sharing knowledge, training, teaching, and helping each other. Now with the wondrous and easy access internet . . . you have a wide variety of people who know just enough to fuck someone up for life calling themselves a wide variety of titles. People who do not and will not seek training . . . it is far easier to throw away the broke sub and find a new one. People who will get upset if it is inferred they made a mistake or may not know what they are doing. And somehow . . . even scarier then that . . . People are buying it. People are ok with it. People don’t want to say it because they are worried it will cause people to be mad at em. I’m sorta ok with people being mad at me. I would rather someone hated me then hate myself for letting a sub get hurt when I couldda stopped it. I know others feel differently and I am not meaning to insult anyone. Just my opinion which I am sure will be shortly torn apart and explained why it is very wrong and other more omnipotent powers are right LOL

tsatske -> RE: INTERVENING... (11/27/2008 1:15:35 PM)
quote: CallaFirestormBW: The vibrating needle and injecting a foreign substance is, again, risk-laden for nerve damage in the area. The fact that you still have the use of your legs does not ameliorate the risk... the next time could be the time that leaves you a paraplegic. It also has the potential to be lethal, depending on what he's injecting and whether what he is injecting can be absorbed through the highly vascular area into the bloodstream, or absorbed into the epidural space of the spinal chord. Calla, We have done the assorted beatings there, but, ftmyersartist may very well be right. It may be that He is not hitting the dangerous area - I'm not back there with a good vantage point for watching. The vibrating sterile needle play - We haven't done that yet, though I've been begging for one, and Master seems to be coming around. But, millions of vanilla women are walking the streets with TrampStamps, and, while I'm sure a few have suffered ill effects, even paralysis, it is clearly not depriving them the use of their legs will nilly. I trust his judgement. If someone approached him quietly, I know him well enough to know that he would listen, and try to take some learning, something of value, from what they had to offer. I know that the first time we played together in public, the Doms of our group, (which we just love) converged on him to offer advice on how to swing a flogger, ect, - not quite so HARD. LOL. I think they were a little shocked to see the no warm up play, strait to heavy impact thing we do - but that's how I LIKE it. If someone stopped us, He would just appologize for breaking house rules we were unaware of, or answer politely and laugh later that we apparently shocked someone. He would not be pissed. If someon approached me, I would just thank them and assure them that our play is consentual and FUN. (as I did that first time, when the subbie hostess came up to me with a gift of a flogger that Master better find someone else to use on and better NEVER get near me. The damn thing is made of STRING. literally. soft embrodary floss!! GG!). There is no reason to make a jackass of yourself getting all 'pissed'. really. It's like all the times we play in public and someone kindly throws a DAMN HOT blanket over me after, because subs are suppose to be chilled while they drop. I accept it gracefully (being unready to talk, what else could i do?), Master cuddles me, and, as sure as He thinks I'm ready to be left uncuddled for a half minute, he gets me my slavesilks to slip into, I throw the blanket aside and we continue aftercare. Any reason to snarl at the person trying to be kind and helpful, just cause it doesn't work for me? OTOH, I would hesitate to stop someone unless I was pretty sure that there was a hole in the whole consent dynamic - and that hole might be in information. But, even then, when possible, I would prefer a quiter, off to the side approach, as ftmyersartist suggested.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: INTERVENING... (11/27/2008 5:02:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tsatske quote: CallaFirestormBW: The vibrating needle and injecting a foreign substance is, again, risk-laden for nerve damage in the area. The fact that you still have the use of your legs does not ameliorate the risk... the next time could be the time that leaves you a paraplegic. It also has the potential to be lethal, depending on what he's injecting and whether what he is injecting can be absorbed through the highly vascular area into the bloodstream, or absorbed into the epidural space of the spinal chord. Calla, We have done the assorted beatings there, but, ftmyersartist may very well be right. It may be that He is not hitting the dangerous area - I'm not back there with a good vantage point for watching. The vibrating sterile needle play - We haven't done that yet, though I've been begging for one, and Master seems to be coming around. But, millions of vanilla women are walking the streets with TrampStamps, and, while I'm sure a few have suffered ill effects, even paralysis, it is clearly not depriving them the use of their legs will nilly. If you're talking about tattooing... tattooing doesn't go deeper than the first permanent layer of skin... so it isn't like a hematoma around the lower spine. chuckles I thought you were actually talking about deep-needle and infiltration/insufflation play (which I do, but never around the spine or where nerves are close to the surface). Oh... and it's great trusting another person's judgment... as long as you know that they have the knowledge for that judgment to be worth trusting. I wouldn't hand just anyone a tattoo gun and let them 'go at' me.... in the same way, if I was making a decision about getting a tat, I'd talk to people who knew about what we were discussing.... just like, for me, I talk to my tattooist, my immunologist, and my neurologist about new tats and piercings, because for me, doing anything else, and even just listening to one of them, doesn't make good sense. Just sumthin' to think about.

ThundersCry -> RE: INTERVENING... (11/27/2008 5:20:35 PM)
I seemed to have related to your story...as well as the pride and stubborness... Funny how one can be made in way to submit to those... because by not doing so... becomes to painful...and be free from those 2 monsters... Oh well...the beatings kept things interesting...ya

ThundersCry -> RE: INTERVENING... (11/27/2008 5:24:53 PM)
Great read... Thanks...

RCdc -> RE: INTERVENING... (11/28/2008 12:00:36 AM)
And this post is the very reason people should never interfere with other peoples relationships. Following your write up with 'I am not meaning to insult anyone' and then insult people you don't know with thinly veiled humour pretty much negates the rest of the post. It's biased - you are biased. Lets leave aside DMs and other monitors right now, because the majority here aren't and don't have any DM or playspace experience. For a start, if you attend a dungeon party or whatever, you are pretty much signing up to their rules, not your own. So getting all offended or insulted if a DM steps in is pretty much a stupid thing to do - it's like throwing a paddy to a moderator on CM because they pulled a post or gave you a warning. Lets look at individuals with no DM superpowers, who make mistakes and who are absolutely not perfect and have no written rules. The 'community' isn't just all the yummy things you portray it to be. It's also built on the show. Please do not mislead people into believing the fairytale of community perfection and fun. Or that people interfering actually have a clue about the people they are interfering with. And the fact that some people treat everyone like they are children and have to rush to the rescue. There are so many things I could list here that carries some inherent risk. Creating artwork carries some risks and it's about being being responsible for yourself, not other people who aren't under your care. It is totally different when it comes down to people protecting their own property they have loaned out, as some people have written here. But when it comes to strangers, sure, voice your concerns to them before and after but to interfere and jump in when you have absolutely no idea of the people concerned is just plain immature and controling - which I guess for dominants is what it's all about at the end of the day. But don't think it's 'right', consensual(since that is such a buzz word of the moment as always) or even 'safe' in itself - it carries risks. People need to stop interfering and trying to save everyone and start working on their own issues and help themselves. the.dark.

DoctorJeep -> RE: INTERVENING... (11/30/2008 3:24:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ftmyersartist For the most part when I've seen someone doing something very, very wrong it has just been a lack of knowledge or understanding and usually a very discrete word or two helps the person figure the shit out on their own. Just a whispered lil bit of advice that no one else sees such as "ya really might not wanna paddle the lower spine" or "dude. . .that's the kidneys you are caning" and they figure out what they are doing wrong and no one ever notices. If they don't figure the shit out though or just don't care that they are doing something amazingly fucked up, then people should step in. Some fucktard in south florida decided it would be a very flashy finish to his fire play to stuf a subs nose with flash paper. A domme in Ft Laud decided to do fire play on a male sub but forgot that whole "Shave em first" step and set his testicles on fire. Saw a dom decide that even if he was on cold meds he'd flog his sub and proceed to hit her upside the head with a flogger again and again thinking he was getting her shoulders. I really don't understand the whole "we will stoically watch someone get mauled and killed because she consented to play" mentality. Sometimes people don't know what the fuck they are doing and are aggressively stupid. Most the time it is just a case of momentary fucktardation that can be cured with a lil advice given on the sly. If not, for fuck sake, I don't wanna watch someone get maimed or worse because someone else is a moron. Personally, I couldn't live with that. If we don't look out for each other, who will? I have to agree whole heartedly. If you were to see someone in peril - I mean actual physical peril, I mean clearly over the line, like say turning properly blue during breath play and the moron doing it is not letting up, you need to do something right away and fuck their delicate sensibilities and "I'm ok you're ok" we don't judge others bull shit. If needs be, hit the bastard. We are adults. I see that as a moral obligation. If you do not see it as a moral obligation, consider the possibility of being charged as an accessory.

AquaticSub -> RE: INTERVENING... (11/30/2008 4:17:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsFlutter I've alway been curious about something. I've never done it or witnessed an intervention of this nature. Have any among you ever intervened with a reckless Dom/me? Dom/mes ~ how can you tell when it is time? Subs/slaves ~ would you hope someone would? how does one know? No, I have never intervened and I have never hoped someone would. I have never been so nervous or insecure with the person I was playing with that I needed to hope for outside help. If truly needed, I am always capable of stopping what is going on so that I can talk to Valyraen and we can figure out what the problem is. If I'm playing with someone else, than they are a play partner - someone with whom we are both in it for our own jollies and I have no problem stating "Hey, I'm not enjoying this, we need to change things up". The only time I would require intervening is if I was bound and screaming "GET ME THE FUCK OFF THIS TABLE NOW YOU FUCKING BASTARD, I'M GOING TO TURN YOUR BALLS INTO COIN-PURSES!". Which is why we don't do consenual non-consent in public. Intervening can have dangerous consquences if you step in at the wrong time and a whip or other toy becomes misplaced. Unless it seems to be life-or-death, far better to mind your own business or, at the most, contact on a moniter.

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