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ONE WAY TO HELP SAVE THE ECONOMY - 11/21/2008 7:49:45 AM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		I think the government  should bail out the auto manufacturers with the stipulation that they close all plants in foreign countries and re-open them in the US. In other words, they get bailed out only if they bring all the jobs back to the US. First the banks wanted to be bailed out, Now it's the auto industry. I think it's safe to assume other corporations will follow. When they do, offer them the same deal. More jobs = a stronger economy. This is a chance to reverse some of the damage that has been done by getting involved in the global economy. Anyone who has links on how to get ahold of congressmen and others who make these decisions, please post them. So far, all the auto manufacturers have been told to is to come up with detailed plans. If we want to help straighten out the economy, we need to let it be heard......bailouts only on the condition of bringing outsourced jobs back to the US!!

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RE: ONE WAY TO HELP SAVE THE ECONOMY - 11/21/2008 8:45:13 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		It is a lovely idea if only it was not far too simplistic. Regardless, it still does not solve the problems with their pensions and benefits for retired workers. Nor does it solve their poor marketing and model choices. Not to mention terrible management constantly being rewarded.

Or the fact that the price of the cars would skyrocket, given the salaries the UAW expect in this country.


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RE: ONE WAY TO HELP SAVE THE ECONOMY - 11/21/2008 10:02:50 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I agree, that's a step in the right direction.
That "global economy" scam certainly doesn't benefit the average person in this country unless you're addicted to filling your house with cheap plastic junk from foreign countries.
It certainly hasn't "benefited" me.
We need to get out of "NAFTA" too bigtime!
The economist and author Peter Schiff was on CNBC last night and he said we need to start "making things" in this country again.
When we have a healthy manufacturing base in this country the average person does well.
*Everyone* should be calling their congressmen and senators and demanding that we get out of "NAFTA", "CAFTA", GATT" and all the other trade agreements.
They were created solely to benefit big business.

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RE: ONE WAY TO HELP SAVE THE ECONOMY - 11/21/2008 10:39:05 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		I see that they want to build a highway from Mexico straight to Canada. Dammed the property owners rights. They are going to confiscate the property to do it. Probably a by product of NAFTA.

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RE: ONE WAY TO HELP SAVE THE ECONOMY - 11/21/2008 1:49:18 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		That's fine as long as you don't mind paying upwards of $50,000 for the cheapest car. The UAW drove the auto plants out. GM couldn't afford constant strikes so they agreed to whatever was asked in exchange for a three year contract. At the end of the three years when the UAW asked for another astronomical raise, GM said sorry, we're closing this plant. During the three years they built new plants overseas.

This didn't happen just once, but numerous times and the UAW never got it through their heads that they were killing off their own jobs, even when GM told them what they were doing. They always went for the short term payoff.

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RE: ONE WAY TO HELP SAVE THE ECONOMY - 11/21/2008 1:51:48 PM   
bestbabync


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

I see that they want to build a highway from Mexico straight to Canada. Dammed the property owners rights. They are going to confiscate the property to do it. Probably a by product of NAFTA.



and part of the new world order

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RE: ONE WAY TO HELP SAVE THE ECONOMY - 11/21/2008 2:32:04 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		Although I do not agree with your solution I will agree that people need to become much more attuned to what the hell is going on in Washington, D.C.  That is hard to do when many do not even understand how the Congress, as a whole, is set up and who their representatives might be.
Each state has 2 Senators.  They are supposed to represent the entire state in all matters that come to the Senate.  Each state is divided up into districts.  Each District has on representative in the House of Representatives.  Therefore, in addition to paying attention to what in going on in Washington in a general sense, it is the duty of each citizen to be aware of how they are being represented in both houses on Congress.
Go here, put in your zip code and you will find out who your representatives are - both Senate and House of Rrpresentatives.
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/directory/congdir.tt 
 
Go here to peruse the congressional voting records
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/
 
You can easily find their phone numbers (they all have local ones if you do not want to call long distance), get their email addresses and don't be shy.
Call them, email them and find out what is going on.  Make your voice heard, regardless of where you stand on any issue.
Until people start doing this consistently, and in droves, they will continue to wing their way to the hill and exercise the carte blanche the American people have given them through their apathy. 
 
(I can't believe I am still stuck with Harry Mitchell)

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RE: ONE WAY TO HELP SAVE THE ECONOMY - 11/21/2008 4:58:31 PM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		All that would do is drive up the costs of the cars these companies build and force people to buy cheaper foreign cars. Be realistic. Companies are supposed to make money. That's what they do. It's all they are made for. Employing people is a nice side effect, but it should be a natural result of a successful company, not something forced on them to make people happy. Why do you think the big three are in this mess to begin with? Part of it has to do with the high costs of US labor. The only thing making their prices competitive at all is the ability to make parts overseas and to sell into other markets in other countries.

Our leaders spend a lot of time squawking about how great capitalism is, but part of capitalism is that PRICE has to be competitive and that includes labor. If companies find cheaper labor elsewhere, that's where they buy it. Americans LOVE their capitalism when it means they get to roll in the dough, but as soon as it means they have to lower their price they start crying like big babies. In order to make US products affordable, we have to have cheap labor. But Americans don't want to be paid cheaply AND our leaders don't want usto be paid cheaply because 2/3rds of our economy is consumer driven. Poorly paid US workers means less money spent inside our borders. So, where's the cheap labor going to come from?

What happens when all of the world has "emerged" and there is no more supply of cheap labor?

This is not a simple problem and there is no simple solution because we have built our economy (and the world economy) on a house of cards. The entire structure is collapsing under the weight at the top. This problem came about because the ratio of earnings to debt is completely out of whack. Credit has driven consumer spending to higher and higher levels over the last 25 years and now it's crashing down. Remember, a big part of the problem for automakers is the inability for buyers to obtain credit. Closing foreign plants will do nothing to correct that problem.

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RE: ONE WAY TO HELP SAVE THE ECONOMY - 11/21/2008 5:30:33 PM   
mefisto69


Posts: 370
Joined: 1/19/2007
Status: offline 		here's a solution that would keep these companies profitable : mid level managers get paid 10% higher than the labor pool..... upper management get 15% above that...... ALL get profit sharing...... yeah - they'll all squack like stuck pigs but it will save these incompetent assholes from the unemployment lines.

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RE: ONE WAY TO HELP SAVE THE ECONOMY - 11/21/2008 5:40:01 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

I see that they want to build a highway from Mexico straight to Canada. Dammed the property owners rights. They are going to confiscate the property to do it. Probably a by product of NAFTA.

This an urban legend; it's been pointed out many times on this board.

thornhappy

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RE: ONE WAY TO HELP SAVE THE ECONOMY - 11/21/2008 9:20:39 PM   
KAZVorpal


Posts: 31
Joined: 8/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I think the government  should bail out the auto manufacturers with the stipulation that they close all plants in foreign countries and re-open them in the US. In other words, they get bailed out only if they bring all the jobs back to the US.


First, ANY bailout is harmful to the entire economy. Inefficient companies must be allowed to fail, or to find what truly works better. Ironically, there isn't even a risk of the Big Three failing, only of them restructuring. And that restructuring would be a very good thing.

Second, the jobs that leave the US should leave. It would be harmful to America to try to keep them.

A job kept here by force is a makework job. It is an undeserved handout.

Just one century ago, over 90% of all jobs were in agriculture.

Today it's less than 2%.

If we had "saved" the other 88%, on the premise that otherwise we'd end up with 88% unemployment, we'd be a third world nation today, like India.

When our economy outgrows an industry, like manufacturing, we need to allow it to happen, or we stagnate. The outdated jobs are replaced with new, far more desirable jobs...or should all the laborers stuck in manufacturing be freed to go back to working on farms?

quote:


First the banks wanted to be bailed out, Now it's the auto industry. I think it's safe to assume other corporations will follow. When they do, offer them the same deal. More jobs = a stronger economy.


No, more PROTECTED jobs means pathetic, stagnant economy. You might as well save all the buggy whip makers from the threat of the automobile industry.



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RE: ONE WAY TO HELP SAVE THE ECONOMY - 11/21/2008 11:02:44 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline 		I'm certainly not one to champion bail-outs, but aren't you comparing apples to oranges here?

The automobile isn't an outdated industry yet, and may not be anytime soon. Why compare it to the outdated buggy-whip industry?

It seems to me that cheaper labor in a global market is a primary issue here. So the question becomes: when all our manufactoring jobs are gone, what new technology is on the horizon to replace these jobs?

Automobiles killed the buggy-whip industry.

There is no new technology on the horizon killing the auto.

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RE: ONE WAY TO HELP SAVE THE ECONOMY - 11/21/2008 11:07:39 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		KAZ, your model doesn't work so well.
If it did why are the prices on cars and trucks going up every year not down with all the "cheap" labor?
Ten years ago you could buy a new Chevy Impala for about $21,000, today they run $27-$30k!
Not a lot of $10 per hour wage earners knocking down the doors to buy new Cheveys these days I bet.
Also, your scenario involves having access to our markets just like everyone else's model. Why should the American People continue to allow this?

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: ONE WAY TO HELP SAVE THE ECONOMY - 12/7/2008 5:13:02 PM   
KAZVorpal


Posts: 31
Joined: 8/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:


There is no new technology on the horizon killing the auto.



Oh, but there is: Automation. We don't need manufacturing to be a key source of employment any more, because we can reduce the cost of living by automating.

With government effectively retarding progress in that direction, by protecting union monopolies, using tax incentives to create makework jobs, et cetera, the natural alternative is to have manufacturing occur in countries where the price of labor is much lower.

This benefits us all.

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RE: ONE WAY TO HELP SAVE THE ECONOMY - 12/7/2008 5:15:55 PM   
KAZVorpal


Posts: 31
Joined: 8/31/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
KAZ, your model doesn't work so well.
If it did why are the prices on cars and trucks going up every year not down with all the "cheap" labor?
Ten years ago you could buy a new Chevy Impala for about $21,000, today they run $27-$30k!
Not a lot of $10 per hour wage earners knocking down the doors to buy new Cheveys these days I bet.
Also, your scenario involves having access to our markets just like everyone else's model. Why should the American People continue to allow this?

Part of that is inflation.

Part is that too much of the work is still done in the US, by the UAW monopoly that needs to be broken.

Part is that Bush engaged in too much protectionism already, for example preventing steel imports, therefore driving up the cost of manufacturing cars, which happen to use a lot of steel.

The American people should "allow" access OF THEIR OWN to foreign products. If you prevent imports, or put tariffs on the, you are attacking AMERICANS, more than foreign manufacturers. We have a right to choose which products to buy, rather than just subsidizing inefficient, makework laborers.

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RE: ONE WAY TO HELP SAVE THE ECONOMY - 12/8/2008 7:37:20 AM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KAZVorpal


When our economy outgrows an industry, like manufacturing, we need to allow it to happen, or we stagnate. The outdated jobs are replaced with new, far more desirable jobs...



This was one of the original arguments for NAFTA. 

Manufacturing jobs would be replaced with better-paying high-tech jobs simply by retraining workers.

Yet the workers who did enter these fields saw their jobs being outsourced to cheap labor countries like India less than ten years later.

So what's the next "new, far more desirable job"?


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RE: ONE WAY TO HELP SAVE THE ECONOMY - 12/8/2008 7:47:04 AM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KAZVorpal


Oh, but there is: Automation. We don't need manufacturing to be a key source of employment any more, because we can reduce the cost of living by automating.

With government effectively retarding progress in that direction, by protecting union monopolies, using tax incentives to create makework jobs, et cetera, the natural alternative is to have manufacturing occur in countries where the price of labor is much lower.

This benefits us all.



This is just pure nonsense.

Every major manufacturer of anything in this country, especially cars, relies on automation as much as possible.  There are no government programs designed to discourage this.

No matter how automated, people are needed to operate, monitor, or maintain machines.

So it still comes down to cheap labor that U.S. workers cannot compete with. 

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RE: ONE WAY TO HELP SAVE THE ECONOMY - 12/8/2008 8:05:55 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

I see that they want to build a highway from Mexico straight to Canada. Dammed the property owners rights. They are going to confiscate the property to do it. Probably a by product of NAFTA.


There are two highways that actually already accomplish that little job....

Interstate 44 turns into US 277 with quite a bit of four lane highway to Del Rio, TX.

US 277, US 83, US 84 all come together in Abilene TX, US 83 continues south to Laredo TX on the Mexican Border.

US 84 gives you a straight run to US 283, to US 377, to US 87 to I10 and then in San Antonio you get on I35 to Laredo or I37 to US 77 to Brownsville.

Now, the US Highway right of way is already set to expand out to 4 lanes with access roads on either side, and much of these highways have plenty of four lane already.

Oh, one more point, these highways have been major transportation routes from Mexico to the Great Lake states for about 40 years....

The only thing that will change is that they will become Interstates instead of US Highways.


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RE: ONE WAY TO HELP SAVE THE ECONOMY - 12/8/2008 9:12:07 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

I think the government should bail out the auto manufacturers with the stipulation that they close all plants in foreign countries and re-open them in the US.

Decertify that abomination known as the UAW and the idea begins to have merit.

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