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Dulce et Decorum Est - 11/11/2008 3:07:09 AM   
MadAxeman


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Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of disappointed shells that dropped behind.

GAS! Gas! Quick, boys!-- An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And floundering like a man in fire or lime.--
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

Wilfred Owen

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RE: Dulce et Decorum Est - 11/11/2008 4:19:34 AM   
corysub


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"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" written at a time when men belived it was the greatest honor to die in battle.  It was the age of Roman Empire and, like the propaganda of today, was probably aimed at giving purpose and honor to death in battle.  The First World War was brutality beyond belief judging from the pictures we see from time to time.  Men charged gallantly as they had in the past but the weapons were so much better at killing, and the use of gas was devastating and so horrible it was thankfully agreed by countries not to be used. 
Patriotism is the blood of any country that is to survive.  It starts with one's family and the desire to preserve our way of life. You can only do that if you are prepared to take up arms and defend your country from its enemies.  However, any trooper will tell you that on the battlefield you are not thinking about country as much as protecting the guy to your right and left and trying to stay alive.
No sane person believes war is a wonderful experience.  However, it is a necessary action when our way of life is being threatened.  Fighting enemies is made more complex when you are not facing an army in the field but terrorists in civilian clothes and IED's.  None of this is new...just forgotten.  After WW2 former nazi's formed themselves into well-armed Werwolf units that tortured and killed those who were collaborating with the Allies.  The Russians were still eliminating pockets of resistance into the 1950's.  The Russians were able to end it with brutality to match the terrorists, something the American army would never do, unless you call putting pantyhose over a prisoner torture.  According to one report (linked below)  "The Soviets were by far the least squeamish of the Allies when it came to  suppressing Werwolf terrorism. According to a Vatican report, "Russian  reprisals were terrible. Using flame-throwers the Russians destroyed  entire blocks of houses causing the deaths of hundreds of the  inhabitants."
 
Yea, war is hell...but losing our will to fight for freedom would be a million times worse.
 
http://www.jewishpress.com/page.do/21967/The_Anti-Terror_Campaign_That_Succeeded.html
                     

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RE: Dulce et Decorum Est - 11/11/2008 6:30:52 AM   
myotherself


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Beautiful, and painfully poignant.

Thank you.

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RE: Dulce et Decorum Est - 11/11/2008 7:43:43 AM   
DesFIP


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Long time since I've read that. Thanks for posting it, MA.

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RE: Dulce et Decorum Est - 11/11/2008 7:51:44 AM   
cloudboy


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Wilfred Owen tried to de-romanticize war, and I no war was as inglorious, pointless, and bloody as WWI. Worse still was the fallout, which lead to WWII, the cold war, and the nuclear arms race.


< Message edited by cloudboy -- 11/11/2008 8:04:17 AM >

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RE: Dulce et Decorum Est - 11/11/2008 8:29:12 AM   
GreedyTop


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beautiful, MA.  Thank you.

(and E.. I totally agree)


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RE: Dulce et Decorum Est - 11/11/2008 8:36:37 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Wilfred Owen tried to de-romanticize war, and I no war was as inglorious, pointless, and bloody as WWI. Worse still was the fallout, which lead to WWII, the cold war, and the nuclear arms race.



The reason why he is now seen as the greatest of the war poets and all those patriotic ones are one by one disappearing from the book shelves.

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RE: Dulce et Decorum Est - 11/11/2008 11:09:48 AM   
Termyn8or


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The words of Smedley Butler come to mind. Butler was not poetic, but he was also disillusioned with war and no longer proud of his actions. I believe they wanted to give him a very high post, but he didn't want it.

We (well some of us) saw what happened to those who fought in Nam. War damages the mind as well as the body. I wonder what will become of our current soldiers when they come home.

I wish not to ask them to endanger their body and soul, which is why I have not responded to the 11th.... thread. I don't know what to say. Only certain times in history was it right to ask these people to endure, to fight and kill. Those who do seem to take it lightly, and that is why I won't be watching any parades either.

T

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RE: Dulce et Decorum Est - 11/11/2008 11:20:04 AM   
HybridMoments


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As a member of, what do they call us now, Generation Kill? and still serving my time, I can honestly say that war is one of the most beautiful and disgusting things I have ever witnessed. The things I've seen...you could never imagine. Attack Choppers commiting strafing runs on city blocks, small arms fire whiping through the air with that noise that you can't forget and makes you jump whenever you hear something like it, DPICM artillery rounds flying through the air and then detonating, White Phosperous rounds impacting on mountains, abandoned city streets and homes, explosions...too many explosions, and sunsets, my have I seen some of the most beautiful sunsets. These things will remain with me for the rest of my life.

There are times when I feel so much older then I can bare. At the end of a long day in the field, after being so busy running around and constantly on alert for hours, my mind on the fizz and all I want is to take my boots off and smoke another ciggarete in the dark on my sleeping system, I stare out across the sky and wonder at how I can see so much shit, and its all shit, trust me, and then it can at the end of the day be quiet, and serene, and beautiful.

It makes me feel old, and tired.

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RE: Dulce et Decorum Est - 11/11/2008 8:06:28 PM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HybridMoments

As a member of, what do they call us now, Generation Kill? and still serving my time, I can honestly say that war is one of the most beautiful and disgusting things I have ever witnessed. The things I've seen...you could never imagine. Attack Choppers commiting strafing runs on city blocks, small arms fire whiping through the air with that noise that you can't forget and makes you jump whenever you hear something like it, DPICM artillery rounds flying through the air and then detonating, White Phosperous rounds impacting on mountains, abandoned city streets and homes, explosions...too many explosions, and sunsets, my have I seen some of the most beautiful sunsets. These things will remain with me for the rest of my life.

There are times when I feel so much older then I can bare. At the end of a long day in the field, after being so busy running around and constantly on alert for hours, my mind on the fizz and all I want is to take my boots off and smoke another ciggarete in the dark on my sleeping system, I stare out across the sky and wonder at how I can see so much shit, and its all shit, trust me, and then it can at the end of the day be quiet, and serene, and beautiful.

It makes me feel old, and tired.


Thank you for sharing your experience.  I hope you are out of harms way now. We don't hear much from the guys in the field...mostly sanitized press releases or worse, media reports that edit a situation to accomodate an agenda which means mostly bad stuff with very little positive about the military.   I hope you write more, and thank you for your service.

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RE: Dulce et Decorum Est - 11/11/2008 11:21:40 PM   
NorthernGent


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http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pDgtZXnk7FU&feature=related



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RE: Dulce et Decorum Est - 11/11/2008 11:29:41 PM   
NorthernGent


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http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MBtnX1woQAs&feature=related

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: Dulce et Decorum Est - 11/12/2008 5:46:12 AM   
OneMoreWaste


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A little belated, but-
Motorhead- "1916"
An unusual piece for a singer who is usually *very* hawkish, but a fitting tribute for Armistace Day.


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RE: Dulce et Decorum Est - 11/12/2008 6:29:39 AM   
GreedyTop


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OMW... thank you.  I'd forgotten how much I loved that song (and now I've got gooseflesh...)

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