RE: Obama's first International Test

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barelynangel -> RE: Obama's first International Test (11/6/2008 4:18:01 AM)
~FR~ I don't think the world is as trusting as many in the US seem to be, i don't think the leaders of the world are jumping up and down cheering and doing high fives, they are going to require Obama to prove his words. So you are going to be having many bait, poke, prod and posture to see what he will do. Obama made a lot of fuss as to how he would handle the international world, based on our economy, the state of our union being unsettled for the next six months to a year while the transition of presidency happens, the focus on the "historical" election and win, etc, the world wants instantaneous results just as we do with regard to all the fixes or to see if words that have been said over the past 2ish years were all talk or was there really a plan formed while talk was being made. I really do hope Obama is going into this with plans that his words were formed from and not words that his plans still need to be created. The election wasn't the end of the fight, it was the beginning of the struggle. angel

SilverMark -> RE: Obama's first International Test (11/6/2008 4:33:49 AM)
I instinctively do NOT trust Putin....you are of course correct in the other facts....but Putin for whatever reason, there is something about him....I truly hope I am incorrect and that you are 100% correct Cleaver....

NormalOutside -> RE: Obama's first International Test (11/6/2008 4:49:32 AM)
3 new ballistic subs.... mmmm..... Anyway, if a foreign leader wants to speak to the USA, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to address it to anyone they want. Maybe their request is falling on the wrong ears, since even a high profile senator like Obama can't just snap his fingers and make everything right. Not even the president can (well, at least he shouldn't be able to) do that. That, from what I've heard of American politics, is in the Constitution. I believe it's up to Congress to decide those kind of matters. Anyway, addressing Obama might not be the smartest thing to do, but I don't think it's malicious or out of line. What everybody should do is calm the fuck down, amiright?

kittinSol -> RE: Obama's first International Test (11/6/2008 5:18:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel The election wasn't the end of the fight, it was the beginning of the struggle. What would we do without Churchill, aye?

celticlord2112 -> RE: Obama's first International Test (11/6/2008 5:31:43 AM)
quote: What would one expect Medvedev to do when we place missiles on his doorstep? What would you do if your next door neighbor mounted twin .50's on his fence facing you? I do believe the missiles used in a missile defense system do not have any offensive value--they cannot be used to target cities, military installations, or other ground targets. Unless I am mistaken in this, the analogy to twin .50 caliber machine guns is incorrect. Better question would be what would I do if my next door neighbor raised a 20' wall against my twin .50's?

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Obama's first International Test (11/6/2008 5:47:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterS quote: I do not have any problem with his other guns, so why would I have a problem with those? Hell if I asked he would even let me shoot them. Now maybe if my neighbor was a religious nutcase, that believed he would be rewarded in heaven for killing me, then I might have a problem. You are doing the ol "texas two step" here which is uncharacteristic of you. We are talking about the U.S. and Russia. You being Russia and your neighbor being the U.S. He has no intention of letting you shoot his gun. He has it on the fence and while he says it is really to shoot at someone else you and he have a long history of pissing in each others back yard. I was speaking of my neighbor, and how I have cultivated a good relationship with him. There was substance there, but it was in the form of metaphor. Not going to hold your hand through it. quote: If you want to dance with me then you need indoor plumbing. How about a dose of your regular candor instead of this line of bs. The .50's are pointed at you and they are cocked and locked and ready to rock. Fuck no he is not going to let you shoot them. You know as well as he does that they are not intended for anything except to fuck with you. You would do exactly what Medvedev is doing. Actually no I would not do what Medvedev is doing. I would first do what I suggested in my responses. quote: This is exactly what happened in Cuba 45 years ago. We put missiles in Turkey ...Russia put missiles in Cuba. Johnboy told Nikkie to get his shit out of dodge and Nikkie told Johnboy to go fuck himself..."you take your missiles out of Turkey and I will take my missiles out of Cuba." Same shit different day. H. Similar yes, but the difference now is that if they are nukes it does not matter where they are. I actually feel it is more of a way to frighten and create problems between the US and the European countries we are placing the missles in. I also feel it is the beginning of several "tests" the Russians will make on Obama. Much easier to deal with a neighbor that you are friendly with. This is where diplomacy will come in, as the Russians historically have only appreciated strength.

pahunkboy -> RE: Obama's first International Test (11/6/2008 5:59:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Russia is making a rational response to American aggression. Just imagine the US's response if Russia was siting missiles on the US border. Holy cow- true. Why do yous think Biden is VP? Obama will be the best president we ever had. If not in our history in my lifetime, better then Clinton, and better then Reagan.

pahunkboy -> RE: Obama's first International Test (11/6/2008 6:01:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel ~FR~ I don't think the world is as trusting as many in the US seem to be, i don't think the leaders of the world are jumping up and down cheering and doing high fives, they are going to require Obama to prove his words. So you are going to be having many bait, poke, prod and posture to see what he will do. Obama made a lot of fuss as to how he would handle the international world, based on our economy, the state of our union being unsettled for the next six months to a year while the transition of presidency happens, the focus on the "historical" election and win, etc, the world wants instantaneous results just as we do with regard to all the fixes or to see if words that have been said over the past 2ish years were all talk or was there really a plan formed while talk was being made. I really do hope Obama is going into this with plans that his words were formed from and not words that his plans still need to be created. The election wasn't the end of the fight, it was the beginning of the struggle. angel hiya hun. the premise is that mccain would NOT be tested. any new prez is. that is how it goes.

Termyn8or -> RE: Obama's first International Test (11/6/2008 9:12:57 AM)
The neocons have this notion that they want to be able to kill just about anyone on the planet by pushing a button. This has come clear to the world. If Obama has a half a brain he will put a stop to it. This plan started many months ago and was prompted by the Bush regime, we have now told the world that we do not want the ideas nor ideology of the Bush regime. If Obama can't see that, we have overestimated him by a longshot. He better have a look at the trees, ignoring the forest for a moment. I see a quick and easy solution, just don't do it. Russia has no plans to attack us, that would be crazy. They know they could be a formidable foe of course, but they realize the cost of war and don't borrow money quite like we do. And there is not much to be gained. What if they did take over the US ? first of all we owe everybody, people have forgotten how to work and really the takeover would not be much of a punishment for us, just what would change ? What would they take from us ? They have nothing to gain and competent leaders, they will not attack us. Why would they ? Same with alot of countries. The only reason they are enemies is because we made them that way, in an unprecedented fashion I might add. We pick on the little guys and wonder why they don't kiss our feet after we kill their families, even in hospitals and schools. I really do hope that C.H.A.N.G.E. is upon us. If this bullshit doiesn't stop soon we are going down the tubes. T

popeye1250 -> RE: Obama's first International Test (11/6/2008 9:23:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Just hours after the announcement of President Obama Elect having won the election, his first test of international affairs begins. "MOSCOW — President Dmitri A. Medvedev of Russia greeted his future American counterpart, Senator Barack Obama, with bristling language on Wednesday, promising to place short-range missiles on Russia’s western border if Washington proceeded with its planned missile defense system in Eastern Europe. " http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/06/world/europe/06russia.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss Why do we need a missile defense system in Eastern Europe?

atursvcMaam -> RE: Obama's first International Test (11/6/2008 11:34:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: What would one expect Medvedev to do when we place missiles on his doorstep? What would you do if your next door neighbor mounted twin .50's on his fence facing you? I do believe the missiles used in a missile defense system do not have any offensive value--they cannot be used to target cities, military installations, or other ground targets. Unless I am mistaken in this, the analogy to twin .50 caliber machine guns is incorrect. Better question would be what would I do if my next door neighbor raised a 20' wall against my twin .50's? i have a friend who uses a kitchen knife for a screwdriver, and a monkey wrench as a hammer. Something that can be aimed, and go boom when it reaches its target is a weapon. offensive or defensive is a term of suggested use, but not a restriction from using it for an alternate purpose.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Obama's first International Test (11/6/2008 12:01:33 PM)
quote: Something that can be aimed, and go boom when it reaches its target is a weapon. offensive or defensive is a term of suggested use, but not a restriction from using it for an alternate purpose. Only partially. Where missiles are concerned, their use is determined largely by the type of guidance systems they contain. The guidance system for targeting an airborne missile or aircraft doesn't provide much accuracy when aiming for ground targets. Russia's resistance to the idea of missile defense on the Eastern edge of NATO is likely an artifact of the insane ABM treaty, in which nations explicitly promised not to develop anti-ballistic missile defenses (the theory being that if all were vulnerable to nuclear missile strikes, everyone would be less likely to start a war that could lead to a nuclear exchange). Perhaps Russia would feel more at ease if a few nuclear tipped ballistic missles were deployed instead of missile defense--a return to the glory days of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction).

Scheherazade -> RE: Obama's first International Test (11/6/2008 12:12:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chiaThePet Oh Thank God, I thought the D.C. IHOP was ablaze. chia* (the pet) It was a Dennys.' Still, no great loss.

RealityLicks -> RE: Obama's first International Test (11/6/2008 1:48:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf The announcement specifically names Senator Obama. quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Just for the hell of it---George Bush is still the President until Jan. 20. Don't think he doesn't know it. If the article you have quoted is to be believed, the announcement specifically does not name Obama. Leaving that aside, I think this is less a problem for Obama than it is an attempt to divert Russian public opinion away from their economic woes. This may have been made easier for them, following the sales of western arms to Georgia which were used in the bungled attack on S. Ossetia. Russia plainly will not launch a self-defeating, suicidal attack on western allies - it runs counter to their vital trade imperatives and so there's a reliable case for the use of economic levers and diplomacy to resolve this.

MrRodgers -> RE: Obama's first International Test (11/6/2008 2:05:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Russia is making a rational response to American aggression. Just imagine the US's response if Russia was siting missiles on the US border. Yea, you're right. I mean after we drove our tanks into Canada and Mexico years ago in our now infamous and brutal colonial imperialism, I'd be scared too. I mean it who'd want missiles in their country like say Poland, Hungary and Czechoslovakia after these Russians so courteously invited them into the Soviet sphere. I mean after all, when these countries invited the Russians in we knew it was of a benevolent desire. Whereas we just went into Canada and Mexico with guns ablazing like Afganistan shot up their leaders, staff and even their whores (no eyewitnesses) because like the Russians would tell thew world...they wanted us to. Ah yes, Afganistan...now there was the prize. The whole world just new when we drove our tanks into that country it was because we were invited. But wait, it WAS the Russians who took everybody out when they drove their tanks in and told the world...to 'help' reassert control over the govt. What WE did was to give the Afgans $billion, the stinger missile and helped them KICK the Rusians out. And as a perfect example of American imperialist colonialism...were told not only was that just the beginning but we would remain there. Then when unlike those imperialist colonialist America is...we left. THEN when America left, America is blamed for the political vacuum and their war damages. So we are the evil imperialist colonialist or are we fuck'em (give them $billion and leave) and forget'em. America is now what... damned if we do and damned if we don't ? I still can't believe the historical bullshit I read here. Maybe you all need to go back afew hundred years and look at not the formation of America but look at the formation of ALL of history's empire and take a good look at what was done...what the real definition of colonialist imperialism is then come back and compare that to Americas history of so-called 'imperialist colonialism.'

Musicmystery -> RE: Obama's first International Test (11/6/2008 2:37:01 PM)
~FR~ Russia is saber rattling, making sure it's presence is known, that it intends to be a player. Nothing more. And as the price of oil drops, so does Russia's income. It's what killed the Soviet Union.

Politesub53 -> RE: Obama's first International Test (11/6/2008 2:53:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 I do believe the missiles used in a missile defense system do not have any offensive value--they cannot be used to target cities, military installations, or other ground targets. The mainstay of the cold war thinking was, that no nation could fire a missile without being attacked in return. This defence system will take away Russian capability to strike back. In that respect, America will have the upper hand.

MrRodgers -> RE: Obama's first International Test (11/6/2008 3:41:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SilverMark I instinctively do NOT trust Putin....you are of course correct in the other facts....but Putin for whatever reason, there is something about him....I truly hope I am incorrect and that you are 100% correct Cleaver.... Putin was/is a KGB officer and communist apparatchik and pines for the old days and who can understand why. He has his new 24 yr old ballerina and $40 Billion so if he ever got mean...we could cut him off personally and we might have to. Just another power hungry facists now running a kleptocracy, similar to the mexican oligarchs with the exception that in Mexico it's family and in Russia you must kowtow to Putin.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Obama's first International Test (11/6/2008 6:04:11 PM)
quote: This defence system will take away Russian capability to strike back. In that respect, America will have the upper hand. So Putin will have to keep his tanks and guns and bombs at home. This is a bad thing how?

HunterS -> RE: Obama's first International Test (11/6/2008 6:38:04 PM)
quote: I do believe the missiles used in a missile defense system do not have any offensive value--they cannot be used to target cities, military installations, or other ground targets. So you would be ok with Russia putting a similar system in Cuba,Mexico or Venezuela? Or possibly one of these. http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.med.diseases.hepatitis/2006-01/msg00382.html H.

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