RE: She was so close (Full Version)

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GreedyTop -> RE: She was so close (11/3/2008 7:47:55 PM)

[sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif]




slvemike4u -> RE: She was so close (11/3/2008 7:54:56 PM)

Nicely said Celeste .  [sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif]




hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: She was so close (11/3/2008 8:04:49 PM)

Orion, there's no bitterness.  I simply find it .... beyond comprehension..... for people to mourn and grieve over the death of someone that they don't know and had absolutely zero to do with during that person's life, especially if they aren't even a friend of the family members of the deceased.  I guess on some level it comes across to me as.....decietful, since how much deep emotion can honestly be invested in someone that you've never met, will never meet, will most likely never even meet anyone who has personally met?
 
When it's someone that you (generic) DO personally know - yes, it's understandable.  When it's the relative of a friend, or even close aquaintance - yes, it's understandable.  When it's someone that has personally been a part of your life, or personally been a part of the life of someone who is important (on a Personal Level - not a remote "oh, I know of them" level) - yes, it's understandable.
 
How many of us though - Honestly - feel more than (at Best) a few Seconds of "oh, that's to bad" before we get on with our lives after hearing about the death of someone that we don't personally know?  Regardless of whether they're a politician, sports figure, entertainment figure, a close relative of one of those - in the long run is anyone doing more than uttering completely meaningless social niceities when they publically "mourn" for someone that they knew OF rather than Knew?   How many of us can even say that we're aquainted with - or have personally met - the family in cases like this?  Ok - so Obama's granny died today.  So did the grannies of any of a half million other people across the planet.  Are you grieving for all of Them as well, and their pain of loss, or are they and their pain and loss insignificant because they're Not a famous figure?  Or, perhaps more accurately, do they simply never cross anyone's mind because they aren't famous?   




GreedyTop -> RE: She was so close (11/3/2008 8:07:17 PM)

Personally, I mourn her death as I do the death of anyone who has been loved. I mourn for the pain that those left behind feel.  I don't think it's deceitful.. especially since I've lost several close loved ones.. and I don't wish that hurt on anyone.

I may never know the people involved, but I can understand their hurt and loss.




slvemike4u -> RE: She was so close (11/3/2008 8:14:01 PM)

Georgia Peach it is called empathy...and as Celeste indicated it is more than that to those of us who believe this man is on the verge of greatness,yes some of us feel that way...though I know you don't subscribe to that opinion,some of us do.She played a large part on forming this man we put so much hope in ....therefore we feel the loss...and feel his loss as well.The timing of it seems such a cruel trick of fate,which adds to the loss.




hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: She was so close (11/3/2008 8:15:16 PM)

GT - perhaps my lack of comprehension springs from the way I view death and grief over death, even of someone who Is personally close to me.
 
I don't see death as a bad thing, or even remotely evil - not even as a necessary evil, although I DO view it as a necessity. 
 
I also don't see grief over someone else's death as a necessarily Good thing.  It's part of human nature, yes - but a part that I consider unfortunate.  While I haven't been immune to it when it's been someone close to me that died - I've lost a parent, grandparents, great grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, close friends - ultimately I view that sort of grief as a Selfish act.  We aren't grieving because they aren't around to have to cope with pain, sorrow, loss, the normal crap that life throws at all of us from time to time, or even the sometimes more harrowing aspects that life throws at a few.  We're grieving because they escaped and we didn't.  We're grieving because we have to cope without them.  We're grieving because WE weren't ready for them to leave our lives yet.  We're grieving - when push comes to shove - because We Lose Out on having them around - and That is the Ultimate in Selfishness.




rexrgisformidoni -> RE: She was so close (11/3/2008 8:17:41 PM)

I am with Peach on this one. even though her grandson is "inspirational" and running for president, in the end she died. Does not affect my day, I just noticed the blurb when I signed out of email. Cancer happens, death happens, and it all happens for some reason that no one knows. her death does not affect me, much in the same manner if my local weatherman died. Oh well, guess I'll move on. 




rexrgisformidoni -> RE: She was so close (11/3/2008 8:23:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Georgia Peach it is called empathy...and as Celeste indicated it is more than that to those of us who believe this man is on the verge of greatness,yes some of us feel that way...though I know you don't subscribe to that opinion,some of us do.She played a large part on forming this man we put so much hope in ....therefore we feel the loss...and feel his loss as well.The timing of it seems such a cruel trick of fate,which adds to the loss.


I am fresh out of empathy. I still fail to see  how anyone can feel the loss for someone who they personally never knew based on the cult of personality of a person. And I don't mean cult in a bad way, just a figure of speech, but if he was mccain, would you mourn as deeply? or if it was george the 1st? I don't know them. never will. I'll never know obama, even reading his books and transcripts of speeches, that doesn't mean I know the man. maybe if we had grown up in the same neighborhood and she baked brownies and we drank beer every monday night for football I might be upset because I know him. But I don't and doubt he  is the type of person who associates with jeans and tshirt wearing types.

So yeah, my empathy basically goes nowhere, I save what little I have for important things.




ThatDaveGuy69 -> RE: She was so close (11/3/2008 8:25:31 PM)

GP gets my vote for best troll-based theft/destruction of a thread.

Grief hell, I'm JEALOUS - she gets outta the game, it's headaches and heartaches, and all the pain, loss, and suffering that goes along with it - and I'm still stuck here dealing!

Dieing is easy - living is hard.  Don't let any of us hinder you from finding your own way out.

My name is Dave and I approve this message.

~Dave




slvemike4u -> RE: She was so close (11/3/2008 8:30:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Georgia Peach it is called empathy...and as Celeste indicated it is more than that to those of us who believe this man is on the verge of greatness,yes some of us feel that way...though I know you don't subscribe to that opinion,some of us do.She played a large part on forming this man we put so much hope in ....therefore we feel the loss...and feel his loss as well.The timing of it seems such a cruel trick of fate,which adds to the loss.


I am fresh out of empathy. I still fail to see  how anyone can feel the loss for someone who they personally never knew based on the cult of personality of a person. And I don't mean cult in a bad way, just a figure of speech, but if he was mccain, would you mourn as deeply? or if it was george the 1st? I don't know them. never will. I'll never know obama, even reading his books and transcripts of speeches, that doesn't mean I know the man. maybe if we had grown up in the same neighborhood and she baked brownies and we drank beer every monday night for football I might be upset because I know him. But I don't and doubt he  is the type of person who associates with jeans and tshirt wearing types.

So yeah, my empathy basically goes nowhere, I save what little I have for important things.

Yeah Rex,if McCains mother,bless her heart,was to die the day before he was to be elected President....I would feel and empathise with his loss.




lilmisssubmiss -> RE: She was so close (11/3/2008 9:03:56 PM)

whose that?




MistresseLotus -> RE: She was so close (11/4/2008 7:04:25 AM)

quote:

Even if I had known her, why should I grieve?  My grief or lack thereof for someone whom I didn't know and who had zero impact on me personally or anyone who actually Matters to me means less than nothing. 

 
I feel the same way about you and your post.




sirsholly -> RE: She was so close (11/4/2008 7:10:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

No doubt this is gonna sound unconscionably cruel and heartless to many of you... but....
 
Ok, so a woman I don't know, who played no part for good or ill in my life (or any of YOUR lives, for that matter), whose family I don't and will never personally know (and again, neither will Any of You), finally sucumbed to age and illness.  In the long run, all I can think is "So what?"  People die every day.  Peoples' grandmothers...grandfathers... aunts, uncles, cousins, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, neices and nephews, sons and daughters, grandchildren and greatgrandchildren.... die.  It's a fact of life.  Death is the ultimate playing field leveler, and the only thing that none of us - regardless of race, religion, gender, sexual preference, social standing, age, education, inate intelligence, chosen career, or anything else - gets to escape.  Even if I had known her, why should I grieve?  My grief or lack thereof for someone whom I didn't know and who had zero impact on me personally or anyone who actually Matters to me means less than nothing.  It offers no comfort to those whom she DID actually Mean something to and who knew her.  It changes nothing.

a lesson i learned early in life with a situation such as this....if you cannot say anything nice.. please say nothing.
 
quote:


Grief hell, I'm JEALOUS - she gets outta the game, it's headaches and heartaches, and all the pain, loss, and suffering that goes along with it - and I'm still stuck here dealing!

how very sad. YOUR loved ones have MY sympathies.
 





persephonee -> RE: She was so close (11/4/2008 7:15:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

Personally, I mourn her death as I do the death of anyone who has been loved. I mourn for the pain that those left behind feel.  I don't think it's deceitful.. especially since I've lost several close loved ones.. and I don't wish that hurt on anyone.

I may never know the people involved, but I can understand their hurt and loss.


Thats because youre human and a very nice one at that. (Too bad you wont extend your houseguests the same empathies...but everyone has their limitations[:D])




NuevaVida -> RE: She was so close (11/4/2008 8:00:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach


Ok, so a woman I don't know, who played no part for good or ill in my life (or any of YOUR lives, for that matter),  


You're wrong. She has had a profound impact on my life. The way she raised her grandson has produced a man who brings me hope and inspiration. I didn't need to meet her or personally know her to be effected by her presence in this world. Without her, I wouldn't have this chance at watching history unfold. Ripples run far and wide.


Wonderfully said!!!

I also believe our compassion (or lack of) for others creates its own ripples, too, which sometimes flow right back to us.




sirsholly -> RE: She was so close (11/4/2008 8:01:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach


Ok, so a woman I don't know, who played no part for good or ill in my life (or any of YOUR lives, for that matter),  


You're wrong. She has had a profound impact on my life. The way she raised her grandson has produced a man who brings me hope and inspiration. I didn't need to meet her or personally know her to be effected by her presence in this world. Without her, I wouldn't have this chance at watching history unfold. Ripples run far and wide.


Wonderfully said!!!

I also believe our compassion (or lack of) for others creates its own ripples, too, which sometimes flow right back to us.


agree.  What we give comes back to us much stronger.




RCdc -> RE: She was so close (11/4/2008 8:50:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

No doubt this is gonna sound unconscionably cruel and heartless to many of you... but....
 
Ok, so a woman I don't know, who played no part for good or ill in my life (or any of YOUR lives, for that matter), whose family I don't and will never personally know (and again, neither will Any of You), finally sucumbed to age and illness.  In the long run, all I can think is "So what?"  People die every day.  Peoples' grandmothers...grandfathers... aunts, uncles, cousins, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, neices and nephews, sons and daughters, grandchildren and greatgrandchildren.... die.  It's a fact of life.  Death is the ultimate playing field leveler, and the only thing that none of us - regardless of race, religion, gender, sexual preference, social standing, age, education, inate intelligence, chosen career, or anything else - gets to escape.  Even if I had known her, why should I grieve?  My grief or lack thereof for someone whom I didn't know and who had zero impact on me personally or anyone who actually Matters to me means less than nothing.  It offers no comfort to those whom she DID actually Mean something to and who knew her.  It changes nothing.
 
Grief hell, I'm JEALOUS - she gets outta the game, it's headaches and heartaches, and all the pain, loss, and suffering that goes along with it - and I'm still stuck here dealing!
 
For whoever it was that asked whether it would even have done more than gained a passing and overlooked obit had she Not been related to one of the two twits running for PotUS.... nope.  No one would have noticed or cared.  No one would have mentioned it in a thread, or anywhere else.  And just like it will do ANYWAY - life will continue pretty much unchanged for the entire world except her close family and actual friends.


I don't find it cruel.  Just totally uninformed.
 
the.dark.




Musicmystery -> RE: She was so close (11/4/2008 9:07:35 AM)

And self-absorbed.




SilverMark -> RE: She was so close (11/4/2008 9:51:31 AM)

She did get to vote absentee for her Grandson!....
Her vote was received and will be counted as part of Hawaii's total!
She may not have lived to see it but she did live to participate!




slvemike4u -> RE: She was so close (11/4/2008 9:57:51 AM)

Nice to hear Silver Mark....




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