Lowering Taxes.... beware

Lowering Taxes.... beware (Full Version)

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MistresseLotus -> Lowering Taxes.... beware (10/28/2008 1:05:11 AM)
Both politicians say they will lower taxes. Wonderful.. just ducky. I wonder how they will replenish the treasury.. maybe mess with our deductions? Like disallow mortgage interest? It's been talked about. There used to be a time when you could deduct your credit card interest... I remember Bush, Sr. saying "Read my lips..No new Taxes!" ... so he fucked with the old ones..... So my point is here.. don't get all hopped up on who is going to lower taxes as your determining factor on who you vote for. This has been your late night Public Service Announcement.

corysub -> RE: Lowering Taxes.... beware (10/28/2008 3:56:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus Both politicians say they will lower taxes. Wonderful.. just ducky. I wonder how they will replenish the treasury.. maybe mess with our deductions? Like disallow mortgage interest? It's been talked about. There used to be a time when you could deduct your credit card interest... I remember Bush, Sr. saying "Read my lips..No new Taxes!" ... so he fucked with the old ones..... So my point is here.. don't get all hopped up on who is going to lower taxes as your determining factor on who you vote for. This has been your late night Public Service Announcement. I agree that people should not vote for someone based on the words they say in a campaign being the determining factor. A great script makes the actor, and a good actor great....but how a person has led their lives, what are their core priciples and are those principles in tune with mine, can I trust this person to put country above ideology, has he proven himself under fire and has the political scars to show for his beliefs. Unfortunatly, we live in the age of TV, thirty second soundbites, and charisma counts more than principle. That's the choice voters have to make when all the "sound and fury" is over and they are in that booth alone with their concience..hopefully with a machine that is working, and cast their vote.

Dnomyar -> RE: Lowering Taxes.... beware (10/28/2008 5:27:17 AM)
We used to be able to deduct our rent payments and heating expenses, ect. Now you have to be deep in dept to be able to deduct anything.

TNstepsout -> RE: Lowering Taxes.... beware (10/28/2008 5:53:28 AM)
Yeah I doubt with the mess we are in they will be able to lower taxes any time soon. You know, only a very small percentage of campaign plans ever come to fruition so I'm not expecting much.

pahunkboy -> RE: Lowering Taxes.... beware (10/28/2008 6:10:55 AM)
presidents cant raise taxes. that is up to congress.

MrRodgers -> RE: Lowering Taxes.... beware (10/28/2008 6:44:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dnomyar We used to be able to deduct our rent payments and heating expenses, ect. Now you have to be deep in dept to be able to deduct anything. I don't remember EVER being able to deduct my household rent or heating from my federal taxes. My total debt has nothing whatever to do with my tax liability unless it is business debt. ALL tax deductions for interest on debt should be eliminated but then I want the income tax under $250,000 eliminated. Why should the tax code subsidize borrowing ? Current tax revenues have been cut. NOBODY has CUT taxes since WWII. Taxes are not cut until spending...is cut. ALL that has been done is to defer these tax liabilities to our children and their children and their...

Dnomyar -> RE: Lowering Taxes.... beware (10/28/2008 7:46:49 AM)
pahunkboy. Your state can raise taxes also.

thetammyjo -> RE: Lowering Taxes.... beware (10/28/2008 8:20:47 AM)
The "lowering taxes" mantra ignores the reality of how governments function and get funding to function. We could just do things like tariffs as the early government but there is a limit to how much income that will make. So many folks want the government to do things for them but then complain when they have to help pay for it. Government isn't a business or a menu, you don't get to pick and choose with things you want your taxes to go toward. As a citizen you are part of a society and even those things you don't use now need to be supported. It's part of living in a community where you each support, look out for, and protect each other and the same is offered to you. Don't like it? I say move to another country and see how much you get taxed and how many choices you have there.

UncleNasty -> RE: Lowering Taxes.... beware (10/28/2008 8:39:33 AM)
I don't think we can believe much of what either of these guys are saying. Politicians have developed to a fine edge their abilities to say one thing, convince you it is sincere, do something completely different, and then convince you they haven't been deceptive in any way. Or, as Grouch Marx is quoted as saying: "Politics is the art of seeking trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." Uncle Nasty

OneMoreWaste -> RE: Lowering Taxes.... beware (10/28/2008 7:52:01 PM)
Point of order- there are a lot more than two politicians. I plan to vote Libertarian in every race where they are fielding a candidate, because they do have a plan for lowering taxes- spend less. Novel idea, ain't it?

meatcleaver -> RE: Lowering Taxes.... beware (10/29/2008 1:55:31 AM)
The funny thing about this argument about taxes is, its irrelevent. Neither candidate will have much room to move if they get to be president because of the economic situation. McCain's promises don't make any sense at all if he's promising tax breaks because being as a Republican you would expect him to be worried about China, yet the west is asking China for more bail out funds which will give China more leverage in the west and more power in the world. If McCain really believed in a strong USA which he claims, he would be saying, no to tax cuts ufor anyone for the forseeable future. Also, Obama has already pointed out the disastrously ageing US public infrastructure and how international companies will look at bright new state of the art Chinese infrastructure, a massive educated cheap workforce and think, we'll choose China instead of the US. The infrastructure and education system in the US needs massive injections of money. McCain seems to agree but thinks it shouldn't be tax money but who else is going to inject the money needed in these economic times? US tax payers really need to grit their teeth, open their wallets and say to their government, take what you need. Its doubtful they will though but if more Americans traveled abroad they would see that despite having a state of the art military that gives them the feeling of being a great nation, when you try to travel around America and compare the experience to other developed countries (and some developing regions), America is decaying and is firmly fixed in the past where infrastructure is concerned. Talking of tax cuts is nonsense, its like handing out valium.

Sanity -> RE: Lowering Taxes.... beware (10/29/2008 6:04:46 AM)
The Obama-Biden Tax Calculator Not a joke, the official calculator to figure how much Obama claims that he will pay you for your vote.Isn't that nice of him, buying our votes with other people's money... What a guy. Other politicians, if they were to raise taxes, would do things like repair bridges or pay down the national debt. But Obama's gonna write us all checks, instead!

Sanity -> RE: Lowering Taxes.... beware (10/29/2008 6:22:19 AM)
The incredible shrinking tax cut - Obama first said those making less than $250,000.00 will get tax cuts, then he changed it to $200,000.00 and then Biden changed it to $150,000.00 http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?entry=9583 If these dorks get elected we'll all be accused of being "the rich" from the sound of it.

awmslave -> RE: Lowering Taxes.... beware (10/29/2008 8:10:27 AM)
Lowering taxes is against US Democrats ideology: it will not happen. President Kennedy was the only democrat who actually did it. President Clinton promised middle class tax cut but never delivered. If you study Obama tax policies it will not happen either: raising taxes for the rich and letting Bush tax cuts expire 2010 means everybody will face tax increase. The only question for a person if voting for Obama based on financial concerns is what he/she will get from the government in return. I guess there will be health care benefits for poor. So, if you are poor, ill, and can not pay then vote Obama. I hope some of the tax money will go to paying off national debt and restructuring country so that the annual budget can be balanced. Obama and McCain contrast as fiscal policy is concerned is very clear: Obama thinks government can solve economic and social problems if given more money, McCain thinks government itself is a problem, spending needs to be cut and people need to keep more money. The last itself would stimulate the economy. Obama has substancial lead in polls. I guess most people have still hope in government. As re-distribution of wealth is concerned W. Clinton and G.W. Bush presidency (including Democrat led senat and Congress) re-distributed lot of it to the top via banking policies, outsourcing jobs and other schemes. This trend will continue unless if Bob Barr will win the presidency.

meatcleaver -> RE: Lowering Taxes.... beware (10/29/2008 9:43:33 AM)
In the current economic climate it is infantile to offer tax cuts and even more infantile to expect them, unless you don't mind living off your grandchildrens generousity because they will end up paying for the greed and profligacy of their parents and grandparents.

Dnomyar -> RE: Lowering Taxes.... beware (10/29/2008 9:54:49 AM)
I like hearing all the bitchers on these forums. Are any of them forming grass roots groups to push their agenda. Where are all of the protesters like there were in the 70's. Organise people or quit whining.

meatcleaver -> RE: Lowering Taxes.... beware (10/29/2008 9:59:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dnomyar I like hearing all the bitchers on these forums. Are any of them forming grass roots groups to push their agenda. Where are all of the protesters like there were in the 70's. Organise people or quit whining. Whining? Inside I'm laughing my head off because the rightwing warmongers won't be able to afford another war.

rulemylife -> RE: Lowering Taxes.... beware (10/29/2008 10:02:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity The Obama-Biden Tax Calculator Not a joke, the official calculator to figure how much Obama claims that he will pay you for your vote.Isn't that nice of him, buying our votes with other people's money... What a guy. Other politicians, if they were to raise taxes, would do things like repair bridges or pay down the national debt. But Obama's gonna write us all checks, instead! So I guess you were also complaining as loudly when Bush and the Republican Congress proposed doing the same thing with the budget surplus inherited from Clinton. You remember what a budget surplus is, right? I know it's easy to forget since we haven't had one in eight years.

awmslave -> RE: Lowering Taxes.... beware (10/29/2008 10:25:28 AM)
The problem is not tax cuts or increases. The problem is that two candidates do not really understand that whole neoliberal economy ideology has got US into the situation. The collapse of banking sector clearly demonstrates it. Small changes in tax structure would not get country out of trouble. If Obama really wants to spread wealth around he should just issue a national dividend. So called "free trade" and neoliberal economic policies inevitably lead to powerty of lower classes. Unless the general economic ideology is changed ther will be no hope. Change in ideology though as a rule happens through major collapse. Both Obama and McCain are status quo candidates and thefore they will be transitional figures. The question is rather which candidate will cause more harm?

Sanity -> RE: Lowering Taxes.... beware (10/29/2008 12:06:27 PM)
When are you going to realize that president Bush is fiscally very Liberal. Even at that though, Bush never went around bragging about how he was going to raise taxes on people accused of acquiring wealth in order to write welfare or bribery checks to the voting masses. quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity The Obama-Biden Tax Calculator Not a joke, the official calculator to figure how much Obama claims that he will pay you for your vote.Isn't that nice of him, buying our votes with other people's money... What a guy. Other politicians, if they were to raise taxes, would do things like repair bridges or pay down the national debt. But Obama's gonna write us all checks, instead! So I guess you were also complaining as loudly when Bush and the Republican Congress proposed doing the same thing with the budget surplus inherited from Clinton. You remember what a budget surplus is, right? I know it's easy to forget since we haven't had one in eight years.

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