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The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! - 10/27/2008 5:24:37 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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"Chrysler employs about 49,000 in the U.S. and has roughly 125,000 pensioners. GM has 177,000 U.S. workers and around 500,000 people receiving pensions."

WOW!!!!!
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RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! - 10/27/2008 5:55:23 PM   
TNstepsout


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Status: offline 		Yeah it's pretty scary. I was watching the financial news today and they said that the auto industry in this nation employs one in ten people (which seems a bit off, but that's what they said).  If the auto industry fails it could cost a million jobs. 

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RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! - 10/27/2008 6:46:14 PM   
rexrgisformidoni


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Status: offline 		I saw a commentary that said the best thing for detroit to do is for the big 3 to go bankrupt and start over. Another huge handout like the wall street one would be horrible in my opinion.

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RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! - 10/27/2008 6:47:42 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Yes, this Detroiter with parents who are auto retirees is reeeeeely loving it here...

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RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! - 10/27/2008 7:19:42 PM   
Owner59


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The Phoenix will rise from the ashes.

The manufacturing base is to valuable to let it get any worse.

People get it now,more then ever.

With the right leadership,Michigan can be a big part of eco-friendly/low cost to drive cars/trucks of the future,solar tech. and other future energy saving stuff.

We can`t let Japan do this.


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RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! - 10/27/2008 7:37:05 PM   
TNstepsout


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Status: offline 		Something else I remember hearing about a few weeks ago is that the auto industry was subject to some kind of mandate that had something to do with switching over to "greener" cars, and the Fed was supposed to fund that mandate. I guess it's something like the Fed tells them what they have to do, and then gives them money to help them do it. Well, they issued the mandate, but have never funded it. errr something like that. I wish I could find a link. But I did find this http://blogs.automobilemag.com/6277873/green/congressional-flex-fuel-mandate-troubles-auto-industry/index.html

Wonder how much of the auto maker problems are Fed caused? I think it's important to have "greener" cars, but it seems the Fed is going about it the wrong way.

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RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! - 10/27/2008 8:10:28 PM   
Daddysredhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

"Chrysler employs about 49,000 in the U.S. and has roughly 125,000 pensioners. GM has 177,000 U.S. workers and around 500,000 people receiving pensions."

WOW!!!!!


Geez... I read this as "prisoners." 

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RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! - 10/27/2008 9:18:25 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		Math people. They say the auto industry employs 10% of the people, but that means a million jobs. Last I heard there were about three hundred million here, ten percent would be thirty million people. Conversely, if GM has a half a million pensioners, or prisoners whichever you prefer, compare that to one percent of the population, which would be three million.

Something is not quite right here. That doesn't change the fact that people better start dying faster, but it still just doesn't add up. Perhaps someone can clear this up.

T

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RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! - 10/27/2008 10:10:11 PM   
OneMoreWaste


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
The manufacturing base is to valuable to let it get any worse.

People get it now,more then ever.


You really think so? 40 years ago, do you think anyone could have imagined that they would have let it get to THIS state to begin with?

It makes me physically ill, I swear


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RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! - 10/28/2008 5:32:28 AM   
Dnomyar


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Status: offline 		I hope that this is not a pensioner bashing thing. They did put their time in. I worked at Fords in 1967 at $4.50 an hour. So these people did not make big money all of the time they worked. At one time during change over which could last 3 months .The time you were off you had to make up.

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RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! - 10/28/2008 5:49:21 AM   
TNstepsout


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Math people. They say the auto industry employs 10% of the people, but that means a million jobs. Last I heard there were about three hundred million here, ten percent would be thirty million people. Conversely, if GM has a half a million pensioners, or prisoners whichever you prefer, compare that to one percent of the population, which would be three million.

Something is not quite right here. That doesn't change the fact that people better start dying faster, but it still just doesn't add up. Perhaps someone can clear this up.

T


Yeah I know, that's why I said it doesn't seem right, but I'm just relating what I heard. Now the numbers they used might have included other related industries, such as auto repair, parts, salvage etc... If you include those, it's possible the number is as high at 10%. I don't know.

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RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! - 10/28/2008 5:55:38 AM   
SilverMark


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Status: offline 		As for the numbers....don't forget the numbers of folks working at Honda, Toyota,Kia, Hyundai etc as well as all of the accessory manufacturers like Delphi, and the like.
I was raised in Indiana and there were just as many plants making the accessory parts and tool and dies made for the auto industry and all were considered part of the auto industry. So, GM Ford and Chrysler may not hit those numbers but the industry itself might very well do so when the pensioners are added in.

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RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! - 10/28/2008 6:19:57 AM   
sub4hire


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


"Chrysler employs about 49,000 in the U.S. and has roughly 125,000 pensioners. GM has 177,000 U.S. workers and around 500,000 people receiving pensions."

WOW!!!!!



My uncle is a GM veteran.  They have been steadily cutting his benefits for the last 20 years.  Last we talked about it, he was fighting to keep his health coverage.  He took a cut in his pension..too many times for me to count.

At this point...they both are retired and now need family assistance.
So those pensions aren't all they are cracked up to sound like.

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RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! - 10/28/2008 6:57:25 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

I saw a commentary that said the best thing for detroit to do is for the big 3 to go bankrupt and start over. Another huge handout like the wall street one would be horrible in my opinion.

We forget people...SOCIALISM is in vogue and perfectly fine for wall street and now more in the form of federal loan guarantees for big business. The big 3 have already started to party on $25 billion and want $25 billion more. Did anyone hear second and third jobs for our kids ?

I can't wait to be rich. It's so beautiful to be rich in America...then I too...could be a socialist. We can't have all of this AND insure our children's health..no...no that would socialism for the poor and lord knows that's just wrong. This country's economy and tax values are a charade and one of undiluted greed.

Haven't people in this country been watching our great free market (sic) 40 years of socialism for the rich, the bankers and corporation and capitalism for the poor ?

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RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! - 10/28/2008 7:49:30 AM   
OrionTheWolf


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Status: offline 		Actually in the last 20 years I have seen many average people start and grow some decent small and medium size businesses. Would you care to define what income range you deem poor and which one you seem rich? What about all of those people in the middle of those two?

When Detroit starts building comparable quality products at comparable prices to foreign auto makers, then they will start on their come back. As O59 points out, Detroit could be part of the leading edge in non-fossil fuel technology, because innovation and ingenuity has always been a mainstay in the US.


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Haven't people in this country been watching our great free market (sic) 40 years of socialism for the rich, the bankers and corporation and capitalism for the poor ?


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RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! - 10/28/2008 11:18:29 AM   
BitaTruble


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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Math people. They say the auto industry employs 10% of the people, but that means a million jobs. Last I heard there were about three hundred million here, ten percent would be thirty million people. Conversely, if GM has a half a million pensioners, or prisoners whichever you prefer, compare that to one percent of the population, which would be three million.

Something is not quite right here. That doesn't change the fact that people better start dying faster, but it still just doesn't add up. Perhaps someone can clear this up.

T


Yeah I know, that's why I said it doesn't seem right, but I'm just relating what I heard. Now the numbers they used might have included other related industries, such as auto repair, parts, salvage etc... If you include those, it's possible the number is as high at 10%. I don't know.



Well, it's not really straight math. Yes, there are about 300 million folks here, but a large % of those are children, another % are retired, another % are on disability, another % are stay at home or unemployed etc. I think if you look strictly at the number of 'working' American's, that 10% number seems about right and the auto industry would include all those things you listed as well places like Big O tires and Maaco (paint shops) and probably gas stations would be included in the catch catagory.

I didn't research this stuff.. it's all opinion, but seems pretty logical to me.


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RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! - 10/28/2008 11:23:04 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Actually in the last 20 years I have seen many average people start and grow some decent small and medium size businesses. Would you care to define what income range you deem poor and which one you seem rich? What about all of those people in the middle of those two?

When Detroit starts building comparable quality products at comparable prices to foreign auto makers, then they will start on their come back. As O59 points out, Detroit could be part of the leading edge in non-fossil fuel technology, because innovation and ingenuity has always been a mainstay in the US.


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Haven't people in this country been watching our great free market (sic) 40 years of socialism for the rich, the bankers and corporation and capitalism for the poor ?



Exactly. I haven't bought a US brand car in years. Over priced and poor quality. Give me a Toyota or a Mazda any day.

Also, I doubt the top execs of the big three haven't taken too many pay cuts or missed too many 6 figure bonuses.


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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! - 10/28/2008 11:41:02 AM   
Irishknight


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Status: offline 		The fraud of how mauch better foreign vehicles are than domestic amazes me.  Cheaper?  At one time significantly so.  Better?  Thats only myth.  Cheaper on gas?  Used to be.
I drive a truck and probably always will (unless the horse and carriage becomes the style again).  The vaunted superior Toyota full size truck does not compete when it comes to farm work and heavy hauling.  The truck squats to the ground waaaay before my similarly rated Ford or my old Chevy.  Guess which truck would have hurt my pocketbook more?  The Toymotor.  American vehicles are competitive in quality and price in most arenas these days.  They just have an undeserved reputation.
Oh, and the price thing.  You'll notice that as soon as these companies come into the US and have to deal with the UAW their prices are no longer significantly cheaper.  Who is the culprit on the car prices?  The companies or the union?  Both?

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RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! - 10/28/2008 11:48:41 AM   
justgemmie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

When Detroit starts building comparable quality products at comparable prices to foreign auto makers, then they will start on their come back. As O59 points out, Detroit could be part of the leading edge in non-fossil fuel technology, because innovation and ingenuity has always been a mainstay in the US.


i know i'll get lambasted for this - but they'll never be able to produce vehicles at comparable rates if the companies must keep meeting the union's demands.  the unions will, eventually, kill the US automobile industry.

gemmie

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RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! - 10/28/2008 11:55:47 AM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		All three of the last three imports I purchased were considerably less expensive than an equal car made by the one of big three.

Before I make a purchase like that, I begin to look at what is available that will suit my needs. I do alot of research, read customer comments and reports of reliability or problems. I go to the dealers and test drive vehicles. Each time, an import was purchased.

As for trucks, that is also a different kettle of fish. In my initial post I specifically said "car". The last two trucks I purchased was a beat up old Nissan that served me very well for what it was purchased for, and a brand new Dodge 4x4 extended cab Ram......in 1997. I still own the Dodge and except for the slippery transmission, I love it. I would never buy a full size import truck. Even though I love that truck, I've gotten more recall notices on that one vehicle than all of the imports I've purchased put together.

As for who is to blame for the problems with car prices, I think you've got a multitude of issues, one being over paid workers (my opinion ) and another being greedy CEOs, add to that the cost of the benefits that most union workers get and a few other less obvious issues and you've got overpriced crap.


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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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