RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! (Full Version)

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Irishknight -> RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! (10/28/2008 12:09:40 PM)

The union still forces the bog 3 to pay full salary to a relatively high number of employess who no longer even leave their houses every day.  That drives the pensions up.  Then they demand wages and benefits that are higher than what my wife and I make put together.  There are evem mpre factors in there but the union's hand is in most of it.  Rather than protecting the workers, they are chasing away their jobs with outrageous demands.

As for the price shopping, I can come back with a vehicle with an American name on it every bit as cheap as an "import" if I shop around.  All you have to do is find the right dealership.  I spend months researching before buying a car or truck and then will dealer shop until I get the deal I want.
I have yet to have a complaint about any of the American autos I have driven.  I have always had trouble out of the imports.  My old Honda nearly killed me.  None of my Fords have ever done that.



LaTigresse -> RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! (10/28/2008 1:03:12 PM)

Well then we will just have to disagree. I've had two Toyota's that I drove into the ground and the only cost was the usual given the miles put on them. Similar with the Nissan. I have a Mazda now that I wouldn't trade for any american made turd.

Sure, I could have found something cheaper. Made cheaper and of lesser quality. I will take the bang for the buck that I've got.



VivaciousSub -> RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! (10/28/2008 1:23:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Well then we will just have to disagree. I've had two Toyota's that I drove into the ground and the only cost was the usual given the miles put on them. Similar with the Nissan. I have a Mazda now that I wouldn't trade for any american made turd.

Sure, I could have found something cheaper. Made cheaper and of lesser quality. I will take the bang for the buck that I've got.


I am reminded of all the definitions of "FORD" that have arisen over the years. There's one positive one, and...more than one negative one. To wit:

First On Race Day - the sole positive.

Then, there's:

Fix Or Repair Daily
Found On Road Dead
F*cker Only Runs Downhill
F*cked Over Rebuilt Dodge

Needless to say....I only own imports. I am part of the Subaru cult - custom built, with a short-throw shifter and a racing clutch and I have never had a problem with it 70,000 miles later and fast as ever!



happypervert -> RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! (10/28/2008 1:31:36 PM)

quote:

I can come back with a vehicle with an American name on it every bit as cheap as an "import" if I shop around.

I like the distinction between American name and "import -- the import could be made in Tennessee or another state, while the American name could be made in Mexico or Canada.



LaTigresse -> RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! (10/28/2008 2:10:08 PM)

Very true. I know that most of my Toyota's parts and pieces were made here. The Mazda, I had to wait for the whole damned thing to arrive on US soil and get through customs.



TreasureKY -> RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! (10/28/2008 3:32:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


"Chrysler employs about 49,000 in the U.S. and has roughly 125,000 pensioners. GM has 177,000 U.S. workers and around 500,000 people receiving pensions."

WOW!!!!!


Wow, indeed.  Of course, those of us who are opposed to finding ways to unnecessarily penalize businesses have always realized that 100% of people employed are working for some kind of business.  Hurt businesses bad enough and where are all those people going to work?  [;)]



OrionTheWolf -> RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! (10/28/2008 3:37:26 PM)

I am right with you. The Chevy was so poorly designed you had to have a $200 wrench to replace the spark plugs or jack the engine up. Valve job after only 80k, went through several alternators, and brake jobs occured about every 30k. The Buick I had lasted about 10k past warranty and an oil port clogged (even though I am religious about oil changes) and had to have the bottom end rebuilt. 3 Fords all had a head problem, two head gaskets and the third the head warped even though the engine was cut at about 3/4 to H on the temp gauge. I have owned a Honda and a Nissan, and I literally drove the wheels off those as they were junkers when I bought them but I got much more out of them than I paid, especially the Datsun by Nissan.

My last investment in American made was a Saturn Vue, but it has a defective transmission that had a recall that extended the warranty to 80k because of it. Too bad it didn't give me problems until about 100k. GM knew about this problem but had thousands of these transmissions already built, and decided to put them in anyway. Sorry but I will be buying a Honda or Lexus next go around.

As ar as trucks go, yep that is a much different story. Dodge or Ford if it is a truck.


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Well then we will just have to disagree. I've had two Toyota's that I drove into the ground and the only cost was the usual given the miles put on them. Similar with the Nissan. I have a Mazda now that I wouldn't trade for any american made turd.

Sure, I could have found something cheaper. Made cheaper and of lesser quality. I will take the bang for the buck that I've got.



thornhappy -> RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! (10/28/2008 4:28:35 PM)

I had a Dodge Ram 2500 Hemi 4x4 for awhile and it had awful reliability.  One of my coworkers had the 1500 Ram and had the same problems.  I swapped it out for a Ford Ranger after giving up plans for a slide-in camper.

Now, I had a Toyota 1/4 pickup back in the '80s and it wasn't immune to problems.  Tuneups (including valve adjustments) were expensive as hell, and I went through 3 clutch master cylinders (although I had the same clutch when I traded it in at 131,000 miles.) 

thornhappy



Real_Trouble -> RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! (10/28/2008 5:49:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VivaciousSub

Needless to say....I only own imports. I am part of the Subaru cult - custom built, with a short-throw shifter and a racing clutch and I have never had a problem with it 70,000 miles later and fast as ever!



Though I'm not so much a fan of them personally, Subies are solid cars from what I have seen.  All of my friends who own them like them.

Personally, I drive German and Italian, but that's more a style choice.  They are more expensive to maintain than Japanese cars, but I prefer the daily driving versatility paired with the luxury side of the German sport sedans, in particular.



LookieNoNookie -> RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! (10/28/2008 6:34:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

I saw a commentary that said the best thing for detroit to do is for the big 3 to go bankrupt and start over. Another huge handout like the wall street one would be horrible in my opinion.


Here's the deal Rex...(and I live in Seattle....so the largest short term effect on me if they go banko is...Starbucks will sell less coffee...but...)....

The govt pension guarantee (which you pay for) will pretty much go down the tubes.  Whatever wasn't tossed when various airlines went under 2 years ago that largely put it on the brink...will be tossed.

Yes, the American system of build it, if it don't sell...you (the builder/company) fucked up...next guy....do better, etc...will be tossed.  You're right....it's the way it's supposed to work...but...

Corporations over 40 years buckled to unions...we can all agree on that...and the unions demanded too much...but here's the deal...

We're at a different place now...your children are at risk.

As are your neighbors.

Whose houses will fall in value (and already have).

Which means your house will fall in value (and already has).

It will fall further in value if someone (yes, that does mean the govt....which...yes...means you) doesn't step up.

And yes, the pain will be shorter if we just bite it right now....but, tell me...please....

Which child...which single Mother....which grandmother who owns a small deli near the plant....which one of these would you choose to lose their home?

Tell me...please.

Pick one.



LookieNoNookie -> RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! (10/28/2008 6:39:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Math people. They say the auto industry employs 10% of the people, but that means a million jobs. Last I heard there were about three hundred million here, ten percent would be thirty million people. Conversely, if GM has a half a million pensioners, or prisoners whichever you prefer, compare that to one percent of the population, which would be three million.

Something is not quite right here. That doesn't change the fact that people better start dying faster, but it still just doesn't add up. Perhaps someone can clear this up.

T


Yeah I know, that's why I said it doesn't seem right, but I'm just relating what I heard. Now the numbers they used might have included other related industries, such as auto repair, parts, salvage etc... If you include those, it's possible the number is as high at 10%. I don't know.



Well, it's not really straight math. Yes, there are about 300 million folks here, but a large % of those are children, another % are retired, another % are on disability, another % are stay at home or unemployed etc. I think if you look strictly at the number of 'working' American's, that 10% number seems about right and the auto industry would include all those things you listed as well places like Big O tires and Maaco (paint shops) and probably gas stations would be included in the catch catagory.

I didn't research this stuff.. it's all opinion, but seems pretty logical to me.



Bita...please stop using logic and math.

(You're gonna fuck up all the arguments of those who choose to use conjecture).



BlackPhx -> RE: The only way to say this is....WOW!!!!!!! (10/29/2008 7:08:50 AM)

Unfortunately Owner, that has been one of the major problems for the Auto Industry here.

Despite a market that has demanded focus over the past couple of years on Economical Gas sipping vehicles, the big three have for the most part refused to make anything that got over 30 mpg and in fact seem to be going down in MPG.  Imports on the other hand have consistently gotten better and better gas mileage and attracted the buyers dollars. GM/Pontiac has a wonderful midsized crossover vehicle in the Vibe (design matches the Matrix) that is gas economical, BUT it is rarely if ever advertised, even though it gets 32-33 mpg highway fully loaded. The would rather advertise the G6 which even though a sedan is for the first time in the 2009 model getting and estimated 33 mpg and the Solstice a sports coupe that gets an estimated 28 mpg for the 2009 model. This at a time when gas prices are fluctuating into the $4 range and back down depending on the market.

To stay competitive they HAVE to start selling cars that don't require you to mortgage your house for a tank of gas. They produce these cars for sale over seas..but not for here.

poenkitten



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