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I don't understand Alaska. - 10/26/2008 1:38:09 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		So maybe some of the Alaskans on the site can explain their state to me.  (Are there any Alaskans on the site?)

It's common knowledge that Alaska is by far the greatest state recipient, per capita, of federal aid.  And yet most Alaskans, from what I can tell, pride themselves on favoring "small government."  Alaska's senior U.S. senator, Ted Stevens (known in the Lower 48 as the irascible and corrupt old man that Jon Stewart loves to lampoon on the Daily Show), is beloved in Alaska for all the pork projects that he has brought in over the years, and yet the McCain-Palin ticket takes every possible opportunity to chastise Congress for pork projects and promises not to let them get away with it anymore.  The state could hardly survive without federal subsidies, and yet it's home to one of the strongest secessionist movements in America.  (Todd Palin used to belong to a secessionist group.)

Sarah Palin is supposedly the most popular governor in America, and yet she was censured for abusing her power by a state government that is dominated by members of her own party.  And the Anchorage Daily News, the largest newspaper in Alaska, is endorsing Obama.

And lastly, the state constitution of Alaska mandates a unique degree of revenue sharing, and from everything I've read Alaskans love the idea that they receive a check from the state government every year for their share of the state's profit from its natural resources.  And yet all we ever hear from McCain-Palin these days is that "spreading the wealth" is a bad idea and "Now is not the time to experiment with socialism."  Isn't the entire state constitution of Alaska an "experiment with socialism"?

Wow, what a bag of contradictions.  Sounds to me, a naive outsider, as though Alaskans adopt whichever ideology happens to benefit their wallet at any given time.

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 10/26/2008 1:40:30 PM >
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RE: I don't understand Alaska. - 10/26/2008 1:39:48 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		Oops--mods, please delete this second post if possible.

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 10/26/2008 1:40:55 PM >

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RE: I don't understand Alaska. - 10/26/2008 1:41:01 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
Sounds to me, a naive outsider, as though Alaskans adopt whichever ideology happens to benefit their wallet at any given time.


It's not just the Alaskans either, from what I understand.

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RE: I don't understand Alaska. - 10/26/2008 2:16:05 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I don't know about anyone else, but if an ideology came along that benefitted me financially,so I don't have to scape and scratch an existence, I would vote for them too. Like, who is wealthy enough to think of other things than their personal existence ?

People, what is a government actually for, are they there to govern us and look after our interests, or rule us and rip us off.


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RE: I don't understand Alaska. - 10/26/2008 2:19:11 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		Umm, the point is that they espouse CONTRADICTORY ideologies.  You can't say you firmly/proudly/deeply believe in something if you believe the opposite when the opposite benefits you.

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RE: I don't understand Alaska. - 10/26/2008 2:30:51 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I am a simple creature me, and I have had a pint, so all the intricacies of politics fly way above my head. I simply in voting, vote for what I believe will make myself and people, i.e. the normal public better off.

You see, in this country, we have people that vote for one party all their life, ask them why and they say, because they have always done so, as their parents did so, if it is detrimental to themself, they still vote that way, because they always have. So ideology wise, they follow an ideology, even if that ideology does nothing for them.

In the past, I have always voted fringe, be it Monster raving loony party, referendum part or whatever, but I never give red or blue my vote. Though I might vote green next time, if there is a candidate in my area. I look at it this way, whoever gets in that is not any of the big two, can they really do any worse.


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: I don't understand Alaska. - 10/26/2008 2:34:51 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I am a simple creature me, and I have had a pint, so all the intricacies of politics fly way above my head.


Pffft... You and Darcy have had more than 'a pint' .
 
the.dark.

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RE: I don't understand Alaska. - 10/26/2008 5:24:46 PM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I am a simple creature me, and I have had a pint, so all the intricacies of politics fly way above my head.


Pffft... You and Darcy have had more than 'a pint' .
 
the.dark.


Aw, well, a pint to us could mean anything from an actual pint to several of the things, but it is just called a pint to keep things simple.


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: I don't understand Alaska. - 10/26/2008 5:28:11 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

You see, in this country, we have people that vote for one party all their life, ask them why and they say, because they have always done so, as their parents did so, if it is detrimental to themself, they still vote that way, because they always have. So ideology wise, they follow an ideology, even if that ideology does nothing for them.


It's like that in this country too.  I grew up in a very interesting home in regards to politics.  My father's side are die hard Republicans from West Virginia (the only state to succeed from the South during the Civil War.)  My paternal ancestors fought for the North.  My mother's side are all Democrats from Alabama and Georgia (they lived on the state line).  My maternal ancestors fought for the Confederacy.  So that's the way they voted. 

I know damn well that my maternal grandmother is not a liberal by any stretch of the imagination.  But she still votes Democratic.  The state I grew up in (Arkansas) is a red state.  But we have a Democratic legislature and a Democratic governor; Hell, Clinton grew up in my hometown.  It all goes back to a voting pattern that started during the Civil War.  My paternal grandfather was the president of his local union, and was pro-union all his life.  But he always voted for Republicans.  The Republican Party isn't known for being a friend of unions.  I reckon there is something to team loyalty. 

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RE: I don't understand Alaska. - 10/26/2008 5:34:41 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

Alaska is by far the greatest state recipient, per capita, of federal aid. And yet most Alaskans, from what I can tell, pride themselves on favoring "small government."

quote:

The state could hardly survive without federal subsidies, and yet it's home to one of the strongest secessionist movements in America.

quote:

nd the Anchorage Daily News, the largest newspaper in Alaska, is endorsing Obama.


quote:

And lastly, the state constitution of Alaska mandates a unique degree of revenue sharing, and from everything I've read Alaskans love the idea that they receive a check from the state government every year for their share of the state's profit from its natural resources. And yet all we ever hear from McCain-Palin these days is that "spreading the wealth" is a bad idea and "Now is not the time to experiment with socialism." Isn't the entire state constitution of Alaska an "experiment with socialism"?



These are not contradictions, they are a state full of Mavericks

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RE: I don't understand Alaska. - 10/26/2008 5:37:24 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		OK, I'll try to explain this one last time, and then I'll give up.

I'm not saying that Alaskans vote against their material interests because of a commitment to a certain party or ideology.  That I could understand.

Nor am I saying that Alaskans vote FOR their material interests and disregard partisan or ideological considerations.  That I could understand too.

What I'm saying is that Alaskans loudly proclaim certain ideologies that benefit them at a given moment, and then seem to proclaim contradictory ideologies when those benefit them too.  Unless we're all willing to agree that the whole blessed state of Alaska is populated by hypocrites who don't really give a shit WHAT they say--and I'm not yet prepared to take that step--I have to say I don't understand their politics.

So I was hoping that someone from Alaska might be able to clue me in.  I've never been to Alaska.  I've been to the U.K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I am a simple creature me, and I have had a pint, so all the intricacies of politics fly way above my head. I simply in voting, vote for what I believe will make myself and people, i.e. the normal public better off.

You see, in this country, we have people that vote for one party all their life, ask them why and they say, because they have always done so, as their parents did so, if it is detrimental to themself, they still vote that way, because they always have. So ideology wise, they follow an ideology, even if that ideology does nothing for them.

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RE: I don't understand Alaska. - 10/26/2008 7:42:09 PM   
SilverWulf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

So maybe some of the Alaskans on the site can explain their state to me.  (Are there any Alaskans on the site?)


I was born and raised in Alaska and spent the first 27 years of my life there, so I'll try to clear some of this up for you.

quote:

It's common knowledge that Alaska is by far the greatest state recipient, per capita, of federal aid.  And yet most Alaskans, from what I can tell, pride themselves on favoring "small government."


The key to that statement is 'per capita'.  Extend the federal aid over a State with a much larger population (almost any other) and it would not be anywhere near the top.  But, why so much even then?  Simple.  Alaska is HUGE with very few population centers.  Most people really have no idea how big Alaska really is.  Find a good scale map and superimpose Alaska over the 'lower 48', it is almost half the size of the continental US.  There is a very large military presence in Alaska, afterall it is the first line of defense for an attack across the pole which is the most likely according to many military experts.  Maintaining the infrastructure of the State is a momentous undertaking with the extremes in climate, terrain, and the absolute remote nature of most of the State.

quote:

Alaska's senior U.S. senator, Ted Stevens (known in the Lower 48 as the irascible and corrupt old man that Jon Stewart loves to lampoon on the Daily Show), is beloved in Alaska for all the pork projects that he has brought in over the years, and yet the McCain-Palin ticket takes every possible opportunity to chastise Congress for pork projects and promises not to let them get away with it anymore. 


The trial and lampooning of Senator Stevens is completely politically motivated.  He is the most senior Republican in the Senate and wields a great deal of power, the Democrats hate that and are doing whatever they can to de-rail him.  Do you really believe the trial had to be held during the election cycle?  Yeah, right.

He is loved in Alaska more for keeping the Federal Government in check than for the pork he delivers.  Alaskans are very upset about the degree of influence the Feds have over the State and keep sending Stevens back to Washington because he has a history of being on the right side of numerous issues that would have given the Feds even more control.

quote:

The state could hardly survive without federal subsidies, and yet it's home to one of the strongest secessionist movements in America.  (Todd Palin used to belong to a secessionist group.)


Alaska could easily survive without federal subsidies, IF the Feds stopped taking away so much of the States resources and money.  That is the key behind the secessionist movement there.  The people of Alaska (many of them) are sick and tired of the Federal Government stepping in and telling them what they can and cannot do with their own lands.  They are tired of the Feds saying no to logging, mining, and drilling at every turn.  Alaskans want to control their own lands and their own resources without undue influence from a bunch of politicians who have never been there.

quote:

the Anchorage Daily News, the largest newspaper in Alaska, is endorsing Obama.


Not surprising since Anchorage, as the largest city, is also the most left leaning place in the State.  Most Alaskans don't read the Daily News, and certainly don't give their endorsements any credence.

quote:

And lastly, the state constitution of Alaska mandates a unique degree of revenue sharing, and from everything I've read Alaskans love the idea that they receive a check from the state government every year for their share of the state's profit from its natural resources.  And yet all we ever hear from McCain-Palin these days is that "spreading the wealth" is a bad idea and "Now is not the time to experiment with socialism."  Isn't the entire state constitution of Alaska an "experiment with socialism"?


According to the constitution, the people of Alaska own the resources.  The State dividend is profit sharing rather than 'spreading the wealth'.   That may sound the same, but it really isn't.

quote:

Wow, what a bag of contradictions.  Sounds to me, a naive outsider, as though Alaskans adopt whichever ideology happens to benefit their wallet at any given time.


As a 'naive outsider', you wouldn't understand.  Most don't.

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RE: I don't understand Alaska. - 10/26/2008 8:06:54 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Stevens is toast.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/bal-te.stevens26oct26,0,2075321.story

The $2.7 million road to nowhere(a buddy`s bar)

"GIRDWOOD, Alaska - Just 0.7 miles long, Crow Creek Road isn't a road to nowhere. It runs straight to the Double Musky Inn, a Cajun bistro owned by a Bob Persons, a close friend of Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens.

It cost taxpayers $2.7 million to widen and pave that road, and Alaska had higher priorities. But an Associated Press examination of government e-mails and interviews with state transportation officials found that Stevens moved the project to the front of the line."



Oh,and to keep things straight,those resources are on national land and not the property of Alaskans,solely.

Alaskans get a yearly check from the government from those resources.

They should feel lucky to get that,at the very least.

And this separatist movement Palin`s husband is in,that she keeps doing promos for.

What is up with that?

Are there many other states looking to succeed?

Could you give us some insight as to those in Alaska that want to succeed from the US?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/26/2008 8:16:54 PM >

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RE: I don't understand Alaska. - 10/26/2008 9:55:01 PM   
OneMoreWaste


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Are there many other states looking to succeed?


I'd like to think that every state wants to succeed, and that failure is only the result of misfortune, but more and more I wonder...


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RE: I don't understand Alaska. - 10/26/2008 10:14:49 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		You do realize that other states have the same issue, right?  We live in a federal republic.

Once again, it sounds like you want to have it both ways.  You want the federal subsidies to keep rolling in (since you wouldn't even have an airport without one--how appropriate that it's named after Ted Stevens), but you don't want those damned Washington politicians telling you how to use your own lands.  If people up there are so ambivalent about being part of the United States, why on earth did they vote for statehood in the first place?

In any case, I have a real problem with the wife of a secessionist telling me which are the "pro-America" parts of the country.  Maybe she should run for President of Alaska.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverWulf

The people of Alaska (many of them) are sick and tired of the Federal Government stepping in and telling them what they can and cannot do with their own lands.  They are tired of the Feds saying no to logging, mining, and drilling at every turn.  Alaskans want to control their own lands and their own resources without undue influence from a bunch of politicians who have never been there.

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RE: I don't understand Alaska. - 10/26/2008 10:18:47 PM   
RainydayNE


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

In any case, I have a real problem with the wife of a secessionist telling me which are the "pro-America" parts of the country. 



SERIOUSLY!

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RE: I don't understand Alaska. - 10/27/2008 4:52:40 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Are there many other states looking to succeed?


I'd like to think that every state wants to succeed, and that failure is only the result of misfortune, but more and more I wonder...



23 states are examing the pros and cons to secede.  I posted it a while back. It might be gone by now as they tend to take down stories.

Northumberland county- once the mother of all PA counties- OWNS MINERAL RIGHTS.  Tho, I do for some reason on my property.   This is done so the area is not exploited.

Ild love to live in Alaska.  But prices are pricier.   I could never afford it.   Juneau is no colder then Chicago. [watch the forecasts]

I totally understand self rule and states rights.  

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RE: I don't understand Alaska. - 10/27/2008 4:58:56 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2007/06/03/in_vermont_nascent_secession_movement_gains_traction/

VT   - 2007.

Hey Silver, My thoughts on yet another congressmen gettting in trouble?    he likely did it- many do it. same old shit.  usually tho the fraud is more New Jersey or Chicago.   so Im like- oh wow- they are mega currupt even way out in Alaska.

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RE: I don't understand Alaska. - 10/27/2008 6:24:39 AM   
FullfigRIMaam


Posts: 718
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

It's common knowledge that Alaska is by far the greatest state recipient, per capita, of federal aid.  And yet most Alaskans, from what I can tell, pride themselves on favoring "small government."

Sounds to me, a naive outsider, as though Alaskans adopt whichever ideology happens to benefit their wallet at any given time.
You, a naive outsider?!  Nice set up...  Thanks for the info.  I think you know it isn't common knowledge, or more people would be calling her a great stretcher of the truth, rather than mavericky.
quote:

I have a real problem with the wife of a secessionist telling me which are the "pro-America" parts of the country.  Maybe she should run for President of Alaska.
Amen brothah!   So how's that priapism anyway?   M


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RE: I don't understand Alaska. - 10/27/2008 3:20:23 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
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Status: offline 		Well, perfect timing.  He was convicted today: multiple felonies.  I know, I know, the whole investigation was politically motivated by that notoriously left-leaning organization known as the FBI.  When will those damned liberals leave us alone???

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverWulf

The trial and lampooning of Senator Stevens is completely politically motivated.  He is the most senior Republican in the Senate and wields a great deal of power, the Democrats hate that and are doing whatever they can to de-rail him.  Do you really believe the trial had to be held during the election cycle?  Yeah, right.

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