RE: the flat earth (Full Version)

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corysub -> RE: the flat earth (10/27/2008 2:54:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7540427.stm

...so are the people who believe this gullible idiots or admirable free thinkers?

Reason i ask, is that there are a number of other issues where some  people flatly (forgive the pun) reject accepted science.........is there a broader dynamic at play here?


I think you are on to something.  There is a broader dynamic here, it's called stupidity.  Think of all those brilliant scientists who think that my wifes hairspray doomed the planet, or that climate change is caused by farting cows.



philosophy -> RE: the flat earth (10/27/2008 10:42:46 AM)

FR

.......so, it appears that a number of  posters point to a natural tendency of some humans to be just plain stupid. Is it just that? Everyone of us is stupid sometimes, we all make mistakes. What is it though that drives some to just ignore evidence? i know the old adage about how you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink......are some people just incapable of accepting science? Is there an unspoken war going on? Between faith (either in a deity or ones own intellect) and rationality?
What does this mean? Is it dangerous?



LaTigresse -> RE: the flat earth (10/27/2008 10:54:08 AM)

I think it is fear based.

Any time you propose an idea that is beyond an individuals own little world, their comfort zone or education, it causes a fearful reaction of denial. Most people hate change, especially when it means they are the ones that have to change in some way.

This fear will cause them to make the most irrational arguments that they see as perfectly legitimate, yet many others just sit back, eyes open wide in disbelief and think "OMG, what has this idiot been smoking?!?!" You could smack them in the head with a sledge hammer of reality and they will sit there babbling on and on about their "truth" ........until they die of head trama.

I am going to avoid the obvious cheap shots about politics since that is NOT the topic......



philosophy -> RE: the flat earth (10/27/2008 11:04:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I think it is fear based.


....i was wondering about that. Fear is a powerful driver of human behaviour.

quote:

Any time you propose an idea that is beyond an individuals own little world, their comfort zone or education, it causes a fearful reaction of denial. Most people hate change, especially when it means they are the ones that have to change in some way.


.....paradigm shifts are hard on people. i remember reading about the initial reaction to Darwin. Sensible, educated scientists twisted and turned to find a loophole, a way of disproving the theory of evolution. When that failed they resorted to personal attack.........and yet, in many other respects those people were rational scientists.

quote:

This fear will cause them to make the most irrational arguments that they see as perfectly legitimate, yet many others just sit back, eyes open wide in disbelief and think "OMG, what has this idiot been smoking?!?!" You could smack them in the head with a sledge hammer of reality and they will sit there babbling on and on about their "truth" ........until they die of head trama.


........as this type of reaction is so widespread, i wonder.....what is its survival value? Why has it survived as a trait in the human population? Or is it that it actually has no net benefit to humans, but that those who exhibit it do so with such ferocity that they beat down the voice of reason and thus skew the situation.

quote:

I am going to avoid the obvious cheap shots about politics since that is NOT the topic......


...thank you thank you thank you........it was getting a little sad.



Chi -> RE: the flat earth (10/27/2008 11:20:51 AM)

Opssssss



LaTigresse -> RE: the flat earth (10/27/2008 11:20:52 AM)

I think as a means of survival, it initially had great value. There was a time when we needed one another a great deal more. Our very physical survival depended upon a certain herd mentality. We also more than likely had very defined group leaders. Blind submission to that leader meant the group survived, given the leader had been chosen well.

I think we are probably in more of a transition now. You have people that are terrified to step out of the norm for fear of being cast out of their group. Then you have people that have somehow progressed past that, realized the pack mentality isn't as required and in many cases a hindrance. They tend to be the type that fights past the critical and negative fear based commentary, and discovers new ground.



philosophy -> RE: the flat earth (10/27/2008 11:31:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I think as a means of survival, it initially had great value. There was a time when we needed one another a great deal more. Our very physical survival depended upon a certain herd mentality. We also more than likely had very defined group leaders. Blind submission to that leader meant the group survived, given the leader had been chosen well.

I think we are probably in more of a transition now. You have people that are terrified to step out of the norm for fear of being cast out of their group. Then you have people that have somehow progressed past that, realized the pack mentality isn't as required and in many cases a hindrance. They tend to be the type that fights past the critical and negative fear based commentary, and discovers new ground.


........i'm not so sure. In the early days, wouldn't the ability to use empirical data be a survival skill that lent itself to higher rates or reproduction? Those that could systematically survey food sources would, on the whole, be more likely to eat.
i'm something of a student of 5th century Athens.....as, for me, it represents the transition state from family organisation as the largest unit of human organisation to cities....and thus countries. Perhaps it was at that point where we lost sight of rationality and lurched into a political (and thus partisan) view of reality.



LaTigresse -> RE: the flat earth (10/27/2008 11:46:25 AM)

Perhaps you are correct and the reality is that we are going too far the other way. Becoming too comfortable and herd like. Something new to think about as I work on the damned apples.



philosophy -> RE: the flat earth (10/27/2008 11:51:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Perhaps you are correct and the reality is that we are going too far the other way. Becoming too comfortable and herd like. Something new to think about as I work on the damned apples.


...i'd rather be working on apples than the damned Patriot Act that i'm still chunking through.........dammit, i'm not a stupid man but that thing makes me feel stupid.



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