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political relativity - 10/25/2008 11:56:53 AM

philosophy

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Left or right are relative terms, not absolute ones. For instance, i have seen on these boards Obama referred to as left wing, and McCain as right wing. This then becomes a sense where Obma is identified by some as being syonymous with left wing activities in the rest of the world and McCain with right wing ones. The thing is, where's the centre?
i'd like to suggest that the centre in US politics is not the same as the centre in world politics. So a US poltician defined there as leftist would be defined in, say, the UK as right wing.
Do posters here think that this is giving a misleading slant to the debate?

Post #: 1

RE: political relativity - 10/25/2008 11:59:10 AM

sub4hire

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I think it is, simply because I've been called left wing..and I've been called right wing.
I just choose who I think will do the best job for my interests in any given election.

So, yes people get brands and they aren't always what they really are.

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 2

RE: political relativity - 10/25/2008 12:00:40 PM

LaTigresse

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Very much so. Personally I identify right with the far right religious fantatics. Some consider me left, but those that know me well, that are both, consider me more in the middle to a bit right. So, given that in my teeny tiny piece of the world we cannot figure it out, it's a given that the rest of the world is all over the place also.

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: political relativity - 10/25/2008 12:13:27 PM

meatcleaver

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For me, Obama is out there on the right of centre while McCain is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out there on the far right but then, I'm European (not Brit/European who are crypto-Europeans) so I guess I'm beyond redemption

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RE: political relativity - 10/25/2008 12:18:24 PM

kittinSol

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Obama's an ultra moderate centrist: the only reason rabid right-wingers call him a 'leftist' or a 'socialist' is precisely because anybody who doesn't share their views is firmly on the left of them.

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Post #: 5

RE: political relativity - 10/25/2008 12:18:30 PM

SL4V3M4YB3

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I used to have this book which listed all the core beliefs of people on the right and the left, it didn't list what the core beliefs of the people in the centre were so I can only conclude either people in the centre don't have any beliefs or they don't actually exist. Either that or there isn't a clear left and right because you'll not find anyone who agrees with your political views in every single area. If left to right was a number scale and each issue had a mathematical value how much would ‘pro life’ be worth in comparison to say ‘more gun control’ I’m thinking of a pH type scale with right being the negative values. I say negative in a purely mathematical sense though, someone had to be negative.

I was born into a generation that valued Government competence more than government leanings. Having said that there are some key areas which if any politician actually supported I'd have to not vote for them, regardless. Some people say that the US is leaning towards the right and Europe the left, this kind of ignores that fact that these parts of the world are made up of independent minded people who select individual issues to care about rather than classifying themselves by stereotype of left and right.

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RE: political relativity - 10/25/2008 12:19:10 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

So a US poltician defined there as leftist would be defined in, say, the UK as right wing.

Do you have an example?

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I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to philosophy)

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RE: political relativity - 10/25/2008 12:19:15 PM

SilverMark

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As you say these are relative terms they are also subjective. The left as some refer to it in recent years has almost become a curse word and used to belittle those who aren't at least what America would call center right. The right has become synonymous with the Evangelical Christians to a large number of those who view themselves as left of center(certainly just as wrong). Hell, compared to the world we Americans are all right wing it is just to what degree. Leftist guerrillas in South America would laugh at our views of the left.
There is no cry for the overthrow of the government and a turn to Hugo Chavez style of socialism(another misused term as of late) no one on our left(the Democratic Party) is advocating the nationalization of industry or the co-operative movement in food production. I don't think the terms are absolute so, therefore they are left to interpretation of those using them. So it really doesn't slant the argument it merely muddles it for those who aren't accustomed to our political scene as of the last 28 years or so at least from my point of view.

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 8

RE: political relativity - 10/25/2008 12:25:03 PM

kdsub

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I know the need to label or pigeonhole a person politically is built into us. I guess it is part of our survival instinct. But damn I hate it…especially when I am labeled as something I’m not.

I think we always assign labels to others…but feel we ourselves are in the center. We tend to use labels as something negative rather then to describe an overall political view.

There is no reason someone can’t be conservative on some issues and liberal on others. For instance I’m as most of you know somewhat religious…so I’m right right…but I’m for the right to choose on abortion…so I’m left…right….wrong!

I’ll bet most people are like me…mixed views on issues… and don’t fit somebody’s idea of right or left wing.
I guess I’m Butch wing

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RE: political relativity - 10/25/2008 12:33:57 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

So a US poltician defined there as leftist would be defined in, say, the UK as right wing.

Do you have an example?

.......actually, no......at least not off the top of my head. i'll do a little research and see if i can come up with one.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 10

RE: political relativity - 10/25/2008 12:35:00 PM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Obama's an ultra moderate centrist: the only reason rabid right-wingers call him a 'leftist' or a 'socialist' is precisely because anybody who doesn't share their views is firmly on the left of them.

Exactly.

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 11

RE: political relativity - 10/25/2008 12:48:47 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

So a US poltician defined there as leftist would be defined in, say, the UK as right wing.

Do you have an example?

.......actually, no......at least not off the top of my head. i'll do a little research and see if i can come up with one.

As far as I'm aware, the British Conservative Party throw their weight behind the Republican Party........with the exception of Reagan and Thatcher, where Reagan threw his weight right up her.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 12

RE: political relativity - 10/25/2008 12:51:12 PM

JustDarkness

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Americans (right and left..and in the middle) love their country (compared to citizines of my country)...think we could call them nationalist (with out meaning it negative).......making peopel call them right winged.

< Message edited by JustDarkness -- 10/25/2008 12:52:44 PM >

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 13

RE: political relativity - 10/25/2008 12:57:48 PM

SilverMark

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So Nothern are you saying Ronnie and Margaret were bumping uglies?....OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! YUCK!...could have gone all day without that visual!

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Post #: 14

RE: political relativity - 10/25/2008 1:07:00 PM

SL4V3M4YB3

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People often say I'm right wing but those people are ignorant of the facts I say...because I spend most of my time in the left wing of the White House.

~ Gregory Bush.

(edited errm misquote)

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 10/25/2008 1:11:30 PM >

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RE: political relativity - 10/25/2008 1:19:33 PM

BitaTruble

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~FR~

The problem is that we've gotten into the clash of 'big government' vs 'small government' which is pretty much what divides left from right.

I reside roughly in the middle and am much more interested in 'good' government. I have the feeling most folks feel about the same.

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 10/25/2008 1:20:07 PM >

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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Post #: 16

RE: political relativity - 10/25/2008 1:42:44 PM

kdsub

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Hi BitaTruble...The big and small can be used more than one way... It used to be big meant Democratic...and small meant Republican.

However many today think big means Republican because of the way they want to control and intrude on our private lives and the way they spend money.

Those words can no longer describe left and right...why not just say Democratic or Republican..as stated above what was once considered left wing behavior is now right wing and viceversa.

Butch

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 17

RE: political relativity - 10/25/2008 1:58:20 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

So a US poltician defined there as leftist would be defined in, say, the UK as right wing.

Do you have an example?

.......actually, no......at least not off the top of my head. i'll do a little research and see if i can come up with one.

As far as I'm aware, the British Conservative Party throw their weight behind the Republican Party........with the exception of Reagan and Thatcher, where Reagan threw his weight right up her.

That was then, this is now. Ken Clarke, one of Thatcher's former chancellors said if he had to choose he would choose Obama as NcClean seems to know nothing about economics and Sarah Palin is clearly nuts.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 18

RE: political relativity - 10/25/2008 2:17:02 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

As far as I'm aware, the British Conservative Party throw their weight behind the Republican Party........with the exception of Reagan and Thatcher, where Reagan threw his weight right up her.

That was then, this is now. Ken Clarke, one of Thatcher's former chancellors

Ken Clarke put forward as a typical Tory?

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 19

RE: political relativity - 10/25/2008 2:21:43 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

As far as I'm aware, the British Conservative Party throw their weight behind the Republican Party........with the exception of Reagan and Thatcher, where Reagan threw his weight right up her.

That was then, this is now. Ken Clarke, one of Thatcher's former chancellors

Ken Clarke put forward as a typical Tory?

Who's a typical tory? Gordon Brown, Tony Blair, Mandelson? There is not much to choose etween them.

Or are you thinking of Kenneth Clark?

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 20

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