Left vs Right, Dems vs Reps, What Happened to the Middle?!!? (Full Version)

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MasterVirago -> Left vs Right, Dems vs Reps, What Happened to the Middle?!!? (10/24/2008 12:10:11 PM)

This election brings to light the greatest problem in American Politics: Most Americans aren't true left or right.

We're in that chasm in the middle where we want government to govern, but not intrude.
Where we want equal rights for all, but don't step on our personal rights.

I'm pro-choice, but guess what? I'm pro-life too. I could never have an abortion, even if I were raped, but shouldn't every woman be able to decide that based on her beliefs and convictions?

I'm gay, but don't necessarily believe in gay marriage, marriage is for churches to decide. But there aught to be a way that gays can commit to each other 'legally' and receive the exact same rights as any heterosexual couple claiming divine right.

I think television and movies are too violent and sexual. Where do we draw the line with censorship without suppressing individual expression?

But I feel this is why the Republican Party will probably lose a lot of elections this year, they've moved too far to the right. There's no room for those of us who may believe some of what they say. It's all or nothing.

There's a line in a song by Gavin Degraw, "I can't be the only one concerned...'

Am I out here alone or do other people feel like there's no one really representing the middle?






Musicmystery -> RE: Left vs Right, Dems vs Reps, What Happened to the Middle?!!? (10/24/2008 12:11:24 PM)

There are. We call them "voters."

;-)



UncleNasty -> RE: Left vs Right, Dems vs Reps, What Happened to the Middle?!!? (10/24/2008 12:25:00 PM)

There is no such thing as "middle" and its all the fault of the bastard Bill Clinton.

Uncle Nasty



atursvcMaam -> RE: Left vs Right, Dems vs Reps, What Happened to the Middle?!!? (10/24/2008 12:27:21 PM)

The "middle" are the ones that keep Obama or McCain from staying above that magic 50% mark.  and the ones to whom each candidate plays.



Musicmystery -> RE: Left vs Right, Dems vs Reps, What Happened to the Middle?!!? (10/24/2008 12:55:14 PM)

And that's exactly the problem with the doomsday sayers.

Let's say Obama is elected, and with a democratic majority. THEY WANT TO BE RE-ELECTED! (I also believe a number of them truly want to serve, but never mind for now).

The Neo-Cons manipulated themselves into power, then figured they could do whatever they wanted, and then tried to build a permanent majority. And what happened? They went too far for too long, and starting in 2006, we showed them the door.

Now, I'm not going to say the Dems are saints. But I will say that they were watching, and, I hope this time, get it.

And if not, the fragments of the warring Republican party and the historically warring Democratic party will form new parties. It's not unheard of (remember the Whigs?).

It takes time. It takes commitment (from the people, which perhaps is what's been missing). But it does happen.




pahunkboy -> RE: Left vs Right, Dems vs Reps, What Happened to the Middle?!!? (10/24/2008 3:34:56 PM)

Gosh it must be nice to be  blissfull.

the left right paradyme is fake.

we end up with wedge issues, nonissues.

how many minutes of the debates were productive?

which candidate will end the fed?  which one will decharter more corporations?



Real_Trouble -> RE: Left vs Right, Dems vs Reps, What Happened to the Middle?!!? (10/24/2008 3:38:58 PM)

I would suspect the middle will wield more and more power as times goes on.

Right now, independents outstrip republicans and democrats among new voters by a significant margin.  There are some states where the largest single block is now independents (I kid you not - look it up).

The commentary above about a new political party is, to my eyes, actually very likely to be on target if the Republicans or Democrats cannot capitalize on this.  If we have a division of 1/4 right, 1/2 middle, 1/4 left 10 - 20 years from now, we won't have just a party on the right and a party on the left, because the first moderate politician who figures out he'll win with ~50% of the vote if he declares for the middle will start a rush to get in that door. 

I would, going forward, expect more emphasis on moderates and less emphasis on wedge issues if the current voter registration trends hold.



Hippiekinkster -> RE: Left vs Right, Dems vs Reps, What Happened to the Middle?!!? (10/24/2008 4:07:46 PM)

There is no functional "Left" in the US. In Europe, the Dems would be center-right. The Greens are the closest thing to a mainstream "Leftist" party in the US.



StarmanJr -> RE: Left vs Right, Dems vs Reps, What Happened to the Middle?!!? (10/24/2008 4:13:28 PM)

Its kind of funny... I live out in Berkeley, and I'd call myself pretty centerist.  I'm a libertarian, and I thought that would give me a foot in the door when talking to people.  Leftists will like my stance on social issues and personal rights, while Righties will love my financial policy.

But life never works out that way, does it?  Every republican tells me I'm a communist hippy who wishes we lost Vietnam, and every democrate reminds me that I am strangling orphan children in third world countries with the invisible hand of the market.

I guess people like conflict.



Musicmystery -> RE: Left vs Right, Dems vs Reps, What Happened to the Middle?!!? (10/24/2008 4:13:50 PM)

quote:

Gosh it must be nice to be  blissfull.


It IS nice to be practical.

More gets done. Any two year old can complain.



Roselaure -> RE: Left vs Right, Dems vs Reps, What Happened to the Middle?!!? (10/24/2008 5:11:51 PM)

I believethere really is not nmuch in the way of far left or far right in American politics.  Obama is left of Center, McCain is right of center and the vast majority of Americans fall thereabouts or in between.  It makes us happy to label each other and polarize ourselves, God knows why.  But there's not really all that much in reality that separates us.



Owner59 -> RE: Left vs Right, Dems vs Reps, What Happened to the Middle?!!? (10/24/2008 5:24:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StarmanJr

Its kind of funny... I live out in Berkeley, and I'd call myself pretty centerist.  I'm a libertarian, and I thought that would give me a foot in the door when talking to people.  Leftists will like my stance on social issues and personal rights, while Righties will love my financial policy.

But life never works out that way, does it?  Every republican tells me I'm a communist hippy who wishes we lost Vietnam, and every democrate reminds me that I am strangling orphan children in third world countries with the invisible hand of the market.

I guess people like conflict.


I fall somewhere between Mother Teressa and Vlad The Impaler.

The center will decide who the next president is.

Doesn`t that feel empowering?

Btw,there are no libertarians.[;)]



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Left vs Right, Dems vs Reps, What Happened to the Middle?!!? (10/24/2008 6:34:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And that's exactly the problem with the doomsday sayers.


"The optomist believes we live the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is so."

quote:


Let's say Obama is elected, and with a democratic majority. THEY WANT TO BE RE-ELECTED! (I also believe a number of them truly want to serve, but never mind for now).

The Neo-Cons manipulated themselves into power, then figured they could do whatever they wanted, and then tried to build a permanent majority. And what happened? They went too far for too long, and starting in 2006, we showed them the door.


You are using the term Neo-Cons for all republicans? In 2006 the Republicans lost having the majority in Congress. Not all of them were Neo-Cons. Also, Neo means new, and cons refer to being conservative. Those that are actually Neo-cons are actually non-cons because they have not been fiscal or social conservatives. The rebellion within the Republican party has led to the current upheavel in that party.

quote:


Now, I'm not going to say the Dems are saints. But I will say that they were watching, and, I hope this time, get it.


If they got it, then why have they not done more in Congress? Why is there more pork than ever in the bills being passed? Why are they still wasting time with political theater (an example is when they had cots brought in to supposedly sleep over night during the debate on a bill). Sorry but they are very few politcians that impress me as I look at results and not their spoken intentions.

quote:


And if not, the fragments of the warring Republican party and the historically warring Democratic party will form new parties. It's not unheard of (remember the Whigs?).


They will still be one party, the Corporate party. That is what was being said in another topic, there is little difference between they two.

quote:


It takes time. It takes commitment (from the people, which perhaps is what's been missing). But it does happen.




Yes it does happen and as long as the American people are committed to voting for either of the major parties, those politicians will still keep doing what they are doing and not be held accountable.



Musicmystery -> RE: Left vs Right, Dems vs Reps, What Happened to the Middle?!!? (10/24/2008 6:45:28 PM)

Orion,

You know better than this. You've spun positions I never took. If you're tired and in a hurry, understood. But unworthy of you.

The Neo-Cons grabbed power. Yes. All Republicans? No--but they as a block rubber stamped idiocy. That led to a backlash.

From there, you riff into unsupported partisan rhetoric irrelevant to my point. In fact, if you're ultimately correct, it will prove the point again.

Live well,

Tim



DesertRat -> RE: Left vs Right, Dems vs Reps, What Happened to the Middle?!!? (10/24/2008 7:00:26 PM)

~fr~
From my viewpoint, and this is just me, mind you, the Democrats and moderate Republicans like John Warner are the middle. In my voting career, I have voted almost exclusively for Democrats (except for the best governor in the history of the universe, Republican William Milliken), but I have always held my nose while doing it. Go way way way to the left of Clinton or Carter and you'll just start to catch sight of me off in the distance. There aren't many of us out in this part of The Continuum but I'm defnitely not alone. I like it...it's quieter, cleaner, the food is alot better. And there are some really smokin' hot women here!

Bob (illegal enemy combatant #9)



slaveboy291 -> RE: Left vs Right, Dems vs Reps, What Happened to the Middle?!!? (10/24/2008 7:57:59 PM)

The Democrats are left as in left of the Republicans

But left of center?

I don't think so.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Left vs Right, Dems vs Reps, What Happened to the Middle?!!? (10/24/2008 8:32:55 PM)

Tim,



quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Orion,

You know better than this. You've spun positions I never took. If you're tired and in a hurry, understood. But unworthy of you.


Those are the positions I got from your post. I suppose there was a miscommunication somewhere.

quote:


The Neo-Cons grabbed power. Yes. All Republicans? No--but they as a block rubber stamped idiocy. That led to a backlash.

From there, you riff into unsupported partisan rhetoric irrelevant to my point. In fact, if you're ultimately correct, it will prove the point again.

Live well,

Tim


You can call it partisan rhetoric and discount my opinion as you wish. I suppose the return trivilization of my points is in response to the miscommunication, or you just do not deem them worthy and discount them as rhetoric. It seems respect of positions is a thing of theory, and not one that can actually be maintained.

Have a good evening then and maybe a discussion some other time on different topics.

Live well,
Orion



Musicmystery -> RE: Left vs Right, Dems vs Reps, What Happened to the Middle?!!? (10/24/2008 8:41:47 PM)

Hi Orion,

You and I have know each other for a long time, and yes, I think there's probably miscommunication.

Topic for another day.

Live well,

Tim



rexrgisformidoni -> RE: Left vs Right, Dems vs Reps, What Happened to the Middle?!!? (10/24/2008 9:39:30 PM)

I'm a centrist Stalinist. 



mnottertail -> RE: Left vs Right, Dems vs Reps, What Happened to the Middle?!!? (10/24/2008 9:46:00 PM)

I firmly believe that if we actually TALKED to each other instead of talked AT each other, we could find sevreal Vice Presidents (that, with a little help, could dress a moose (Roosevelt_Palin) and several Presidents who could oversee a depression (Hoover-McCain) and I really don't understand all this anger.

Waltz me thru it guys.

Face Shooter (as opposed from the hip McCaiu) Dick Cheney



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