Too immature for the truth?

Too immature for the truth? (Full Version)

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meatcleaver -> Too immature for the truth? (10/24/2008 1:43:44 AM)
It was pointed out on the news here the other night that both candidates are still promising tax cuts and breaks, neither seem to be facing up to the truth that neither of them will have much room to do anything significant because of the state of the economy and might be forced into tax hikes, even if they have to stimulate the economy in the short term. American elections are not the only ones where politicians ignore the ugly truth to get elected so is it the nature of the immaturity of the citizens in democratic countries that politicians feel they can be unrealistic about the state of a nation or is the electrate just spoilt and decadent they can't take the truth? Maybe its the politicians that just like to insult the intelligence of the electrate which is my personal take on it.

blacksword404 -> RE: Too immature for the truth? (10/24/2008 3:25:15 AM)
Obama is going to get in office and he will then say that after reviewing the situation that $250,000 cut-off will now be $100,000. Gross not net.

NeedToUseYou -> RE: Too immature for the truth? (10/24/2008 5:22:28 AM)
The US people demand to be lied to, its that simple, a small minority may not like being lied to and prefer a more truthful less rosy picture, but the highly washed, primped, and bloated masses, demand that there world view be maintained and reinforced. A worldview that is based on saturday morning cartoons, and made for tv movies. Politicians are selling the US people what they demand. I'm finding it harder and harder to blame the politicians as much as I used to, as that is the only way to get elected to these high offices. Simple, the destruction of the US, if that occurs will 100% be the fault of the public, people will whine and say it is corrupt politicians, but we reelect corrupt politicians. Barney Frank, LOL, was a cheer leader for Freddie and Fannie, and the lowered credit standards, I bet he'll get reelected. Anyway, I think the destruction of the US citizens ability to reason, is a resounding "mission accomplished", literally. We have Obama and McCain, both promising the impossible. You must slash slash slash, all kinds of government spending if you want to give tax breaks in a recession, without accumulating more debt. It could be done, but they aren't talking about doing that, on the level that would matter. Oh, well, I do have a perverse fascination with doomsday scenarios, maybe Obama will push us over the edge. I say Obama because it doesn't look like Mccain has much chance of winning anymore.

meatcleaver -> RE: Too immature for the truth? (10/24/2008 5:28:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou Politicians are selling the US people what they demand. I'm finding it harder and harder to blame the politicians as much as I used to, as that is the only way to get elected to these high offices. I think you are right. We get the politicians we deserve. Blair only had to say "He believed" and enough people believed him to get him elected without actually asking him what he believed in, which as we know now, was absolutely nothing. The man was a vacant air head.

JohnnyCanuck -> RE: Too immature for the truth? (10/24/2008 5:37:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver American elections are not the only ones where politicians ignore the ugly truth to get elected so is it the nature of the immaturity of the citizens in democratic countries that politicians feel they can be unrealistic about the state of a nation or is the electrate just spoilt and decadent they can't take the truth? Maybe its the politicians that just like to insult the intelligence of the electrate which is my personal take on it. There have been bread and circuses since before Julius Caesar, and stupid people who vote for them regardless of the consequences. And politicians have no vested interest in an intelligent electorate. Much harder to rush people into a war if they are smart, much easier to stampede them when they are stupid. Stupid people do not elect candidates who tell them the truth. They elect politicians who tell them what they want to hear. Don't blame the politicians for being smart enough to know how to manipulate the masses: its part of the job description.

Musicmystery -> RE: Too immature for the truth? (10/24/2008 5:51:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 Obama is going to get in office and he will then say that after reviewing the situation that $250,000 cut-off will now be $100,000. Gross not net. Nonsense. That would mean trashing completely the IRS code and procedures, and he just doesn't have that kind of power--let alone the intent you freely ascribe.

sub4hire -> RE: Too immature for the truth? (10/24/2008 6:07:25 AM)
It isn't only politicians. It is the citizens as well. It is almost like people cover their ears and have a tantrum when you say something about one of their candidates that is true.

windchymes -> RE: Too immature for the truth? (10/24/2008 6:18:34 AM)
It's human nature to hear what we want to hear and believe what we want to believe, rather than facing reality. And those humans are in every country, not just America.

pahunkboy -> RE: Too immature for the truth? (10/24/2008 6:33:58 AM)
most are busy grinding a living to cut thru the noise. and it is noise. I seen a piece where the French factor treason INTO governance as a matter of course. IMO- I do not support any tax increase, UNTIL every penny now spent is pared to the bone. preferrably by folks I see in the grocery store...not elites.

hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Too immature for the truth? (10/24/2008 6:37:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sub4hire It isn't only politicians. It is the citizens as well. It is almost like people cover their ears and have a tantrum when you say something about one of their candidates that is true. And for evidence of that, one need only look at the muling diatribes so common in this forum on any political thread... from the supporters of Both major parties' candidates..

thetammyjo -> RE: Too immature for the truth? (10/24/2008 10:13:24 AM)
I think it is more that in a huge democratic system you must constantly educate the citizens and the citizens must consistently look for education in order to be informed. As a nation, we fell prey to demagoguery a few generations ago. It just gets worse and worse as prefer their bread and circuses to the work of being citizens. This isn't new. Polybius warned us about this.

BlackPhx -> RE: Too immature for the truth? (10/24/2008 11:52:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 Obama is going to get in office and he will then say that after reviewing the situation that $250,000 cut-off will now be $100,000. Gross not net. The President Proposes but Congress has to Pass the bill cutting taxes, raising taxes or doing anything WITH taxes. Congress Proposes but the President has to Pass the bill cutting taxes, raising taxes or doing anything WITH taxes. It is part and parcel of the checks and balances that our government works under. We are saddled under debt, massive debt. We are saddled with an economy that is struggling to stay afloat, unemployment figures that aren't accurate as they don't count the Homeless, those who have run out of benefits or the Self Employed whose Clientele has dried up. We have a war we are involved in that is bleeding capital like we severed an artery and the result of that war is not going to be barrels of Oil but Rebuilding that country as promised by Bush. We have a crumbling Infrastructure (Bridges, Dams, Levees) that desperately need to be repaired or replaced, and we have hocked the taxes and salaries of our Great Grand-children. To think that taxes will not need to go up is to fool ourselves. But it is still going to take the President and Congress working together and figuring out by how much, where it needs to be spent and for how long..Not just the President. I suspect We, The People have absolutely No CLUE as to just how bad the economy is in this country and what we have already been committed to pay out or pay in. We see the banks in trouble and the Stock market and Credit Issuers..but that is only the tip of the iceberg I suspect. Too many years of cuts and credits, without an increase in income to cover the spending those cuts and credits are pulling money from. As a former bookkeeper I know you can't bleed massive outflow in money, without having some thing coming in to cover it or a deep pocket Angel funding you and China...Ain't no Angel. poenkitten

SilverMark -> RE: Too immature for the truth? (10/24/2008 12:44:21 PM)
I think that the American public should wake-up from the dream of no taxes and rebates etc. etc. but, no one wants their taxes increased and no one wants to share the burden of righting our sinking ship and no one would dare elect anyone who tells them that is the case. Is it the politicians or the American public? Just think, 8 years ago we had a surplus....I think Osama is laughing at us as he watches from his cave somewhere and praising GWB for his sterling leadership into the abyss!

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