IvyMorgan
Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Fizzgig168
MisstressRouge made a very interesting thread about Pro-Style and the stigmas that come with it. It got me thinking, but I didn't want to usurp her thread. So.
Specifically: What's the connection to prostitution? Prostition is certainly looked down on, for any number of reasons, but I believe in large part because it is illegal. If prostitution were legalized do you guys think that it might cut back on the derogatory attitude towards sex workers in general, and/or lifestyle sex workers?
*smiles* pet topic, yay!
First up, prostitution is not *always* illegal. In fact, I can sell my body (in the UK) and that not be a legal issue. What I can't do is solicit, loiter, work in an unlicensed massage parlour, profit from other people selling their bodies. In Sweeden, for example, it is legal to sell, but not legal to buy. In certain states in the US, and in Holland, prostitution is legal but heavily licensed and controlled.
A uni friend of mine is writing a piece on proposed changes to the legislation here, targeting pimps, human trafficing and curb crawling. The legislation doesn't actually make any more of what the prostitute does illegal, just the people around the prostitute.
As part of her research, she asked a bunch of us (feminists/sex workers/both) the following questions...
quote:
1)do you think the new proposals will work to reduce the numbers of prostitutes, or will it simply force more of them underground?
2)will the proposals increase respect for women in the community?
3)How else could the Home Secretary make it easier for women to leave prostitution, given that 80% of prostitutes want to leave the industry but can't see a way to?
4) What's your opinion on 'the swedish model'? (outlawing the buying of sex but not the selling of it).
5)Has the Labour party done well or badly for women and men who work in the sex industry? Does it really care?
6) what is your name, age (you can falsify both of these if you prefer to remain anonymous) and what organisation do you represent, if any?
I figure point 2 is the most relevent to your question, but the others highlight things you might want to think about.
My answer to point 2 read as follows
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What community? I'm not sure there's ever going to be a lot of respect for prostitutes, whatever flavour, whatever you want to call them. (As I'm writing this, I'm watching "diary of a london call girl", and Belle's bf just found out what she does...)
There are some types of sex work that aren't so stigmatised, pro-dommes, for example, aren't seen in the same way as the girl who stands on the street corner, even though, when it comes down to it, they're doing the same job. Saying that though, in general kink circles, a lot of pros are, not looked down on, per se, but when talked about, it's added on, as if it's important to know they're a pro. People will say something like "I know a pro" instead of just "I know a dom". And of course, all pro-subs are just whores what get beaten too.
Models and actresses, I guess, have less stigma, having done some film work, though, I feel like I have less control over what I did/do. I mean, I have no control over the distribution, over who watches it, over what the people who own the rights do with it, and so on. Models also really don't get paid that much, even if it is safer money that other trades.
So, erm, no, no increase in respect for women in the community, if by community you mean "women in the sex trade". I have no idea how you would do that, but I can't see something that essentially makes more things about sex work illegal ever doing that.
To go back to your questions, however...
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Specifically: What's the connection to prostitution?
I see this as something very simple, though I think I might get flamed for it. Both the average girl on the street, the high class escourt, the courtesan, the average girl from a massage parlour, the pro sub, the pro dom and the many flavours of rent boy are all selling sex in various guises. Pro dommes/doms (and many subs) will insist til they are blue in the face that they do not give sexual services, which is true if you define sexual services as *actually having sex*. If you think about it more broadly, the pro-kinksters are selling a sexual fantasy, wank fodder for later, a sexual experience that doesn't include penetration. So, the connection is, they're all selling sex.
As a note to this, I have met a pro-kinkster who didn't sell sex, in any way. She combined CP with therapy (CBT mostly). That said, she also did film work, so...
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Prostition is certainly looked down on, for any number of reasons, but I believe in large part because it is illegal. If prostitution were legalized do you guys think that it might cut back on the derogatory attitude towards sex workers in general, and/or lifestyle sex workers? I don't think making prostitution legal reduces the stigma. What it does do is give prostitutes more rights and protection, for example, government run, licensed and controlled brothels can ensure
a) Women are not exploited by others and that they actually keep their earnings.
b) The use of condoms can be enforced to make it hygenic and safe.
c) Prostitutes can go to the police if they are under threat.
d) Prostitutes can form a trade-union to ensure further legal protection.
e) Pimps can be removed.
f) Bodyguards can be employed to prevent abuse from customers.
g) All this should lead to the normalising of prostitution as a profession, meaning that women who work in the sex industry will have the resources to leave it when they choose. Many prostitutes I believe, begin as a temporary measure, but then get stuck. If we legalised it, they should be able to earn some money and then move off; perhaps there could evenbe a legal provision that prostitutes could claim to have doen something else when they apply for a new job, so as not to face discrimination.
I don't think any of that is going to make middle england like the idea of the girl next door being a whore any more though.
As far as "pro-kinsters" goes, or "lifestyle sex workers"... first it depends on what they're doing. Are they tops, bottoms, film workers, models etc? If anything though, I think there is an added stigma on the pro kinksters because they're perverted *and* a whore, it's (kink) something that is not understood by the wider community so there is an added level of stigma to get through.
I think the pros are often ambassadors of our world to the mainstream, they are the ones people read about in papers, and see on TV, and watch in porn. I think this contributes to the skewed image the vanilla world has of kink, but this is not the fault of the pro.
I hope some of this is at least a little interesting.
Ivy
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Pro-Style Stigma - round 2. - 
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