RE: Paying the Tab (Full Version)

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rulemylife -> RE: Paying the Tab (10/19/2008 6:41:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave


Exactly how it can be done I do not know because I do not understand how the whole financial system works.


That's OK, neither do the people running the financial system.




MzMia -> RE: Paying the Tab (10/19/2008 6:49:41 PM)

julia? I agree it is certainly going to hurt.
Many may not be able to afford the bus, they might have to walk.
Granola might be a luxury.
Have you seen the movie, "The Grapes of Wrath?"
Do you think it will be that bad?


YouTube - Scenes from the Great Depression




rulemylife -> RE: Paying the Tab (10/19/2008 7:05:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Have you seen the movie, "The Grapes of Wrath?"
Do you think it will be that bad?


YouTube - Scenes from the Great Depression


I heard someone wrote a book about that movie.

Personally, I like the South Park version where their computers failed and the economy collapsed.

"We're going to Californy to find us some internet".




OneMoreWaste -> RE: Paying the Tab (10/19/2008 7:36:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
What I do think is that our grandparents had a different savings ethic (depression era). Most people do not save anymore. And "retirement" in the form of investing in the stock market is a gamble... having read up on investing in a 401k they describe risk, etc. Even though some of the investments have less risk, they all have some risk.

I suppose I just feel that the stock market is risky... especially the last decade.


Of course the stock market is risky! It just has very, very good marketing. As you can tell by the fact that suckers are *still* buying in to this very day!

My Grandmother grew up during the Great Depression. Never "invested" in the stock market. Was able to retire anyway. How 'bout that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
Exactly how it can be done I do not know because I do not understand how the whole financial system works.

That's OK, neither do the people running the financial system.


The hell they don't. Money goes from people who labor and produce things, to the people running the financial system. If they blow it all on brain-dead investments, private jets, and high-price whores, the government prints more for them, then the media blames it all on the "little guy" getting in over HIS head! Works a treat.




juliaoceania -> RE: Paying the Tab (10/19/2008 7:41:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

julia? I agree it is certainly going to hurt.
Many may not be able to afford the bus, they might have to walk.
Granola might be a luxury.
Have you seen the movie, "The Grapes of Wrath?"
Do you think it will be that bad?


YouTube - Scenes from the Great Depression


The Grapes of Wrath was about Okies escaping the mid west after the dust bowl. The dust bowl was the primary reason many came to California in the depression era because there were farm jobs here.




MzMia -> RE: Paying the Tab (10/19/2008 8:54:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

julia? I agree it is certainly going to hurt.
Many may not be able to afford the bus, they might have to walk.
Granola might be a luxury.
Have you seen the movie, "The Grapes of Wrath?"
Do you think it will be that bad?


YouTube - Scenes from the Great Depression


The Grapes of Wrath was about Okies escaping the mid west after the dust bowl. The dust bowl was the primary reason many came to California in the depression era because there were farm jobs here.


Funny thing is julia, people are moving these days
to find affordable housing and/or jobs.
So comparing what is coming to the Grapes of Wrath, is sadly becoming not that big
a stretch.




seeksfemslave -> RE: Paying the Tab (10/20/2008 2:37:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DedicatedDom40
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
Your friend is correct. Pension funds would be at major risk if the banking system collapsed leading to a major stock market failure. Saving for a pension is one of the most responsible things that anyone can do. Contributions must be protected whatever it takes.

Then you keep your retirement money out of high risk situations.  But no, we dont have to "do whatever it takes" simply because you (and others) want to travel the high risk, high reward route with their retirement.
The average investor has no control over where his deposits in normal bank accounts or where his pension savings when paid to a finanacial institution  actually end up.
If you try to do your own investing either on the stock market or in property you remain at serious risk if the banking system collapses.

I agree the bail out is regrettable but it is absolutely necessary for the survival of a modern economy.
The bankers are in such a powerful pivotal position that they must be subject to bipartisan control.
 
This is likely to happen in Europe but I fear the old market knows best mantra will  resurface in the USA once the dust settles tho' it may take a few years.

The US was the source of the major depression in the 20/30s and is the source of the current financial unrest. I conclude there is something wrong with your political approach to finance.




pahunkboy -> RE: Paying the Tab (10/20/2008 5:27:06 AM)

todays American would not have the patience or attention span for a real depression.

think bout it.   we get bored fast.  maybe some creativity will find an awesome new discovery.

So hobo fashion comes in.  the Charleston dance comes back.  we get bored with the fad, and the 50s come back in style.  or maybe it is the 60s now.  (I doubt it)




Dnomyar -> RE: Paying the Tab (10/20/2008 6:42:40 AM)

If you think we will get out of Iraq quick just look over to South Korea. We have been there over 30 years. So far my 401k is holding up. My daughter lost a ton on hers.  




popeye1250 -> RE: Paying the Tab (10/20/2008 9:33:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: DedicatedDom40
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
Your friend is correct. Pension funds would be at major risk if the banking system collapsed leading to a major stock market failure. Saving for a pension is one of the most responsible things that anyone can do. Contributions must be protected whatever it takes.

Then you keep your retirement money out of high risk situations.  But no, we dont have to "do whatever it takes" simply because you (and others) want to travel the high risk, high reward route with their retirement.
The average investor has no control over where his deposits in normal bank accounts or where his pension savings when paid to a finanacial institution  actually end up.
If you try to do your own investing either on the stock market or in property you remain at serious risk if the banking system collapses.

I agree the bail out is regrettable but it is absolutely necessary for the survival of a modern economy.
The bankers are in such a powerful pivotal position that they must be subject to bipartisan control.
 
This is likely to happen in Europe but I fear the old market knows best mantra will  resurface in the USA once the dust settles tho' it may take a few years.

The US was the source of the major depression in the 20/30s and is the source of the current financial unrest. I conclude there is something wrong with your political approach to finance.



Seeks, don't you just love this *Global Economy?*




MzMia -> RE: Paying the Tab (10/21/2008 5:06:19 AM)

julia you asked about "paying the tab".
Did we get many viable answers?
I think NOT.


I think many of us "see" the answers, julia.
Many U.S. citizens don't have idea's on how to pay the tab, and
I can assure you that many citizens are not thrilled about
having to "sacrifice" much more these days.
 
I suggest that we just give more bail outs, stimulus checks, throw some
big parties, and see if we can triple the debt.
Let those that come after us, eat cake!




juliaoceania -> RE: Paying the Tab (10/21/2008 5:25:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

julia you asked about "paying the tab".
Did we get many viable answers?
I think NOT.


I think many of us "see" the answers, julia.
Many U.S. citizens don't have idea's on how to pay the tab, and
I can assure you that many citizens are not thrilled about
having to "sacrifice" much more these days.
 
I suggest that we just give more bail outs, stimulus checks, throw some
big parties, and see if we can triple the debt.
Let those that come after us, eat cake!


Every time I see someone bitch about their taxes I am going to ask them the question... I have no idea how people expect to pay debts without paying taxes.... and if they didn't want to pay for the war they should have spoke up when we invaded Iraq




bestbabync -> RE: Paying the Tab (10/21/2008 9:03:18 AM)

why is it so wrong to have an opinion about how my money is spent?  i want our government to stop borrowing, also stop the tax and spend habits.

if we have to buckle our belts and pay off the debt, then why is it wrong to expect the same of the government?  higher taxes and spending more will NOT work!




pahunkboy -> RE: Paying the Tab (10/21/2008 10:08:17 AM)

best- it aint going to work.

in the grand game of musical chairs.  some us all wont get a chair.




Irishknight -> RE: Paying the Tab (10/21/2008 12:40:38 PM)

We could start by cutting in half the salary of every member of our overpaid congress.  THAT would be a good first step.




pahunkboy -> RE: Paying the Tab (10/21/2008 12:45:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

We could start by cutting in half the salary of every member of our overpaid congress.  THAT would be a good first step.


hmm.   Ya know- the IRS had a reward program.  The reporter get 10% or whatever it is for turning in- say an ex, for underpayment.

So why not offer  .000000001 % for any citizen who can cut mil spending ..with the goal of 1/2.

the next 12 people I see today could cut the spending better then the mil is now "cut".

with all the hype of election, do we see how much time that we could talk about this- but havent?

Ill try not to faint...




ArizonaSunSwitch -> RE: Paying the Tab (10/21/2008 12:50:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

We could start by cutting in half the salary of every member of our overpaid congress.  THAT would be a good first step.


It shouldn't be cut in half, it should be cut to one dollar a year, no health benefits, no pension, no benefits at all. It's supposed to be *SERVICE*. At the beginning of this country the legislators would go to washington (or philly), do their duty for a couple months then go back to their *jobs*. It's been downhill ever since we allowed our representatives to turn themselves into royalty.




BitaTruble -> RE: Paying the Tab (10/21/2008 1:23:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArizonaSunSwitch



It shouldn't be cut in half, it should be cut to one dollar a year, no health benefits, no pension, no benefits at all. It's supposed to be *SERVICE*. At the beginning of this country the legislators would go to washington (or philly), do their duty for a couple months then go back to their *jobs*. It's been downhill ever since we allowed our representatives to turn themselves into royalty.


Temp contract service jobs pay about $10-$15 an hour and I'm fine with that but I do agree on the pension, benefits etc. Temp workers don't get those perks and Congress shouldn't either.

Oh, and term limits. We need term limits on every branch of government. Somewhere between 4-8 years depending on the branch and on a rotating schedule so there is always fresh brains and ideas going in while the tired go back to whatever it is they were doing before they decided to make politics a career. Politics should not be a career. I'm a strong advocate of a single six year term for the office of President. No more lame ducks and no more mid-term elections to distract the man/woman in the big chair.

Re: OP - paying the tab

Call me an optimist. I think if we decide we can fix it, then we will. That power of positive thinking thing. It's going to call for a massive reduction in spending and an increase in taxes.. but that's not enough because that doesn't go to the root of the problem and if we don't change that root, we'll find ourselves right back in this situation.

It's going to have to include evolving the mindset of an entire generation or two because until we get back to 'use it up and wear it out' we're not going to get out of this mess. We throw millions of pounds of consumable food into the garbage. We don't recycle raw materials .. bottles, clothing, cans etc. We leave on lights and waste electricity, don't keep our cars maintained properly which wastes gas and a host of other things. Little things, yanno.. that add up to create part of the problem.

You know what I hear most when I talk about conservation? "It won't help."

That's the mindset that has to change because it will, absolutely, positively help. You really can fill up a bucket with an eyedropper. It just takes a while. If you're one person, it's going to take a whole lot longer than if you have 100 people going to the bucket with an eyedropper.

What we owe right now is the tip of the iceberg compared to what we're going to owe if we don't do something about Social Security. Burying our heads in the sand, like the last 4 Presidents have done on this issue isn't going to make the problem go away.

The vast majority of wealth in this country is all on paper and when something like Wall Street happens, all it's doing is pushing the numbers from one side of the ledger book to the other. We need to really look at wealth from a different perspective. Wealth needs to be tangible, touchable. We need to go back to producing instead of just consuming and raise our labor market to shrink the huge gap between the paper haves and the paperless have nots. It's just not possible to do that without investing in things like new technology, renewable energy resources, education and things of that nature and that takes paper and that means raising taxes and until we start sending in representatives who have evolved mindsets nothing is going to change.

Patch kits aren't going to work we need to embrace a viewpoint that involves long term, permananet solutions. Evolve mindsets, cut waste at home and in government, invest wisely and well.

It's a start and we gotta start somewhere.




Steponme73 -> RE: Paying the Tab (10/21/2008 1:52:00 PM)

We don't pay the tab in the foresable future.  We may not pay it in the next 50 years.  I was against the bail out for all the same reasons everyone else was.  It is a free market system and it will correct itself.  The problem is with the policitians.  They are trying to cover their asses, because of greed on their part.  Major corporations also have a hand in what happened.  GREED, GREED, GREED.  That is what has got us where we are today.




pahunkboy -> RE: Paying the Tab (10/21/2008 2:15:24 PM)

http://www.unconfirmedsources.com/index.php?itemid=3769

check this out. joe the plumber endorses ron paul- cos he is the only candidate that admits he doesnt care about him

//  on congress,  it doesnt help that they own stock in companies such as defense.  How can they be objective when the family could be rich off of a policy???

and how rich is rich enuff to stop the con?


http://www.cindyforcongress.org/      




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