the value of friendship in BDSM (Full Version)

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stella41b -> the value of friendship in BDSM (10/16/2008 8:14:58 PM)

"Don't let them fool you
Or even try to school you, oh no
We've a got a mind of our own
So go to hell if what you're thinking is not right
Love would never leave us alone
Ayin the darkness must come out to light..."

Bob Marley 'Could you be loved?'

Coming to these boards on a regular basis I guess we get used to the usual non-BDSM topics appearing here. He doesn't love me. She lied to me. He hasn't called me. How do I get her to be more kinky? He's meeting her. How does my profile look? How can I tell if he likes me? How can I tell if she's dominant.. and so on and so on. Indeed it would appear that there is a whole focus out there on relationships, kink, play, events and so on.

But what about friendship? Yes, here I'm talking about pure, unadulterated, platonic friendship, the sort of friendship shared between people here irrespective of their gender, sexuality, whether they are dominant, submissive, their interests, even their location and the country they live in. This to me is the big advantage of this Collarme site, part of why I have made it my spiritual home, in that over the last year and a half since I started posting on these boards I have formed a considerable number of friendships with some of you off the boards, some on the other side, friends who make their home in places such as Saarbrucken and San Francisco.

Each and every one of you, and each and every one of these friendships, are in some way special or important to me. I have got to know some of you as you have got to know me, and privately and on the boards from time to time I have shared much of my life, my work in theatre, my community and charity work, my writing, my transition, my social activism and also my issues. Though most of us haven't met, and in many cases it looks unlikely we will ever meet, but together you form one of the pillars of my support network, and at the risk of starting to sound mawkish and sentimental here you have all had some part, maybe tiny, in my journey and progression through my transition, my life..

Some of you know my story already, especially the more regular posters and if you don't it's covered in my website in my sigline. Another good thing about this site is that it sort of acts as a kinky Facebook or MySpace and I have even been found by some of the people I know from Poland (it seems they took my advice and and set up profiles on CM), from my downfall in Polish theatre my homelessness and return to the UK.

One such friendship stands out from all of them and that is the friendship I share with a domme known to quite a number of the regulars - Lockit. It's a friendship which started last year and has continued, and it almost recently turned to something more than friendship. Some of you who have been reading her postings know of her struggles with the authorities over her son, her own illness and the difficulties she faced, and it was at the time when she had split up with another submissive and I reached out across the miles and the Atlantic to help her through this difficult time.

It started an exchange of messages, IMs and even phone calls and we got to know each other much better and our friendship deepened to the point where we were both prepared to try and overcome our difficult circumstances on both sides, and I would have eventually ended up as Lockit's collared submissive or slave. For some days this was how it was looking, but then we examined everything in the cold light of day and looked at the issues involved we decided that the relationship - which would have been a very close, harmonious relationship in theory, presented us with just too many difficulties to overcome - looking at things realistically - and we decided that it would remain friendship which brings something to both our lives across the Atlantic, but without any of the costs of the relationship.

I'm writing this at the end of a week when I am due to have an opening performance in theatre with the opening of 'Switch'. However it's not going to be. One of the actresses has dropped out of rehearsals with a major chest infection, depression and a major life crisis. Yesterday there was a stormy rehearsal when it came out that not only the set hasn't been designed but also the other actress hasn't quite mastered part of the play. Twice I threatened to walk out of the rehearsal. This actress started an argument with the other members of the cast and then she turned and blamed me for not directing the play properly. She had the text in March when I opened the production, and now in October my infinite patience has finally run out. Next Tuesday is an open rehearsal. The production is suspended.

Partly the actress is right. While it doesn't excuse her not learning her lines or preparing her role it also highlights the fact that part of the reason why this play hasn't reached the stage is largely down to me. Many people appear to think that gender reassignment is just taking hormones and living in your actual gender. It is of course, but that living in your actual gender also requires an internal transformation where you throw off all your former socialization, you have to go through a metamorphosis deep within yourself and transcend that barrier between the genders, throwing off your former gender and learning to live as yourself. I have made progress, but my relationship to my past, particularly my difficulties from childhood have caused me to be stuck in a rut for the last two years.

So what's wrong? Well in reality nothing's wrong, except for the fact that at times I'm listening to the wrong voices in my head - voices from the past which invariably lead me to go through a crippling loss of self-worth and self-confidence. This is something Lockit picked up on and has been helping me with. This is not to say nobody else has, you all have to varying degrees, but Stella has blonde moments, at times a pretty thick skull, a stubborn streak but somehow with the help of a simple computer Lockit somehow got through to me.

So partly this is to say thank you to Lockit and others for giving me this clue by four.

But I'd like to open this now to other people among you all to perhaps come and share something which you have gained from your friendships with others from the BDSM community. I'm not talking about the relationships, the topping, bottoming, the kinks, the play, the sex, or anything that intimate - but what you have found, gained and discovered from your friends in the community.





knockonmyduir -> RE: the value of friendship in BDSM (10/16/2008 8:22:52 PM)

i first walked into a bdsm chat room in 2003...<ok....some may find hokie...but this got me involved in lots of reading> i met a sub girl in one of the rooms, long storey short, she came from England to visit me for 1 week and i flew back with her for 2 weeks....we are the bestestests of gurliefriends to this day. she has recently moved to alberta, so i'm saving more on my long-distance plan. it's so special to be able to share thoughts and feelings with her about bdsm, that some of my other great friends just don't get.




AliyaLuna -> RE: the value of friendship in BDSM (10/16/2008 8:40:40 PM)

I find I've made many friends in various BDSM spaces where it wasn't about the kinks but just socializing and such.  It's just neat to hang out with people who share some common interests.




domandsu -> RE: the value of friendship in BDSM (10/16/2008 8:44:24 PM)

The best thing I have gained over the last few years is an awareness that I am not alone.  It has been so liberating and reaffirming to know that there is a whole community out there that not only understands how I feel but embraces the same dreams and desires that I do.  It is actually through a friend that we came to this board.  My husband and I are still new to the social aspects of bdsm and we are learning by leaps and bounds now.  It is beautiful world and I am so happy to be a part of it.

I am also learning that I have much to learn and even more to read [8|]




RedMagic1 -> RE: the value of friendship in BDSM (10/16/2008 8:48:07 PM)

Great post, Stella.  As far as I am concerned, relationships may come and go, but friendship is forever.  And my closest, dearest friends are the kinky ones.




Lockit -> RE: the value of friendship in BDSM (10/16/2008 9:53:54 PM)

Thank you Stella… but it does take two you know!  I can talk until I am blue in the face and some would like me blue and ball gagged I am sure, but nothing can come of anything if the person you are talking to isn’t receptive or ready to hear it all.  You helped me through some ‘stuff’ too.  More listening to the hassles of it all than anything else, but still…lol… I am sure it wasn’t exactly the best conversation at times! lol  So thank you too!

Sometimes with this online, message board, chat room stuff, we can view people in ways and not see so very much and yet other times, it seems we can see clearly and find someone we would really want to know.  As time goes on, we know them better and grow into friendships that are amazingly strong and worthwhile.  True friendships and feelings result and prove that one doesn’t have to meet to know someone deeply and feel something for them.  If friendships can be built, other types of relationships can be built too.  It can be just another step in a process of a relationship, although in a romantic relationship, things have to move to in person. 

I think it just depends on how honest people are with one another.  Your honesty is refreshing Stella.  So anything that I have done was done because of you.

Throughout the years I have been online and my time at CM, I have built friendships that will last for life.  I have learned, I have loved, I have grown stronger in knowing the people I have met and gotten to know and although not everyone was someone who could be a friend, I have learned from them too.  Even if it was just to know what types to avoid! lol I am sure I will continue to learn, but to try and think of all I have learned or seen… not going to happen… not tonight anyway!  But one thing… I have learned of a lot of kinks at CM that I had never heard of and would never in a lifetime think of! lol

But I cannot fail to mention how much I have learned from you Stella… about what your life is like, what it is like to go through your transition and how the world often treats you.  When someone has the opportunity to glance deep inside, they can see a person that is quite amazing.  It is an honor to know you!

As always Stella… good post!







JustDarkness -> RE: the value of friendship in BDSM (10/17/2008 4:41:26 AM)

a lovely read..

personally I make no difference in where friends are from..vanilla or lifestyle..or from mars..
To some people you just connect...and from those I learn....and enjoy there presence.
(many live on the otherside of the world..that is a shame...still they are always there when needed)




chamberqueen -> RE: the value of friendship in BDSM (10/17/2008 5:28:32 AM)

Very nice post Stella.  I have made some very nice friends through here.  I started talking with other slaves because we so often seem misunderstood by others.  Sometimes I help them, sometimes they help me, and we end up laughing together.  I help people rewrite their profiles and celebrate with them when they find someone who is interested in who they really are.  I often email someone who makes a really good post just to give them a thumbs up, or to share a similar personal story, and have made some good friends that way. 

I was a Domme, now I am a slave - I've gotten to see both sides.  I feel as comfortable talking with a top as with a bottom.  There have been people I have seen as consistently balanced and helpful that I have come to admire very much.  I have also seen those that panic and send me emails just needing calm reassurance - both tops and bottoms.  It is my personal belief that you get out of a community what you put into it, and the CM people have become my family.  There are the cousins that you pretend you aren't related to - LOL - but then there are the sisters and brothers, the stepchildren, and the aunts and uncles that you really come to love.  I'm so glad that you found a truly good friend.




juliaoceania -> RE: the value of friendship in BDSM (10/17/2008 5:53:01 AM)

I have found my life increasingly filled with other people outside of collarme, bdsm, etc. I have not spent much time thinking about it over the last few months. I do know that when I have abruptly went away there have been those I have stayed in touch with, and they know who they are. There were others that I missed too.

My Daddy is the best friend I have from this site. He is the one that no matter what our issue has always been  my friend. He misses my companionship when I am not around, and our conversations. I think that this is something in many D/s relationships that I have read about on here that would lack for me, a lack of friendship with one's partner. It is hard to be friends with someone that you see as unequal to you... like it is hard to be friends with employees or with children or your students. This is why an unstructured dynamic works for me because we just relate the way we relate without worrying about how submissive or dominant we are. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with the way other people run their ship, but it wouldn't fulfill me... that is why relationships come in all different flavors




KatyLied -> RE: the value of friendship in BDSM (10/17/2008 5:56:40 AM)

quote:

This is why an unstructured dynamic works for me because we just relate the way we relate without worrying about how submissive or dominant we are.


Julia, so much of what you write resonates with me.  I have found things much easier if I can connect with someone on a friendship level first, where we can sit, talk, joke, hang out, have <gasp> vanilla sex, then slowly add the kink and D/s to it.  I need to have a comfort level with a dominant as a person first and a dominant second.  I used to think it was highly subly of me to be this way, I've come to the place where I accept it and if a dominant can't accept that about me I think too bad, you are missing out.  I'm tired of trying too hard to be a submissive.    [;)]




juliaoceania -> RE: the value of friendship in BDSM (10/17/2008 6:16:03 AM)

quote:

I'm tired of trying too hard to be a submissive.



If ya have to try all the time something is wrong...

I know that for the longest time I was "trying" a lot. Things have gotten better since I quit trying to be submissive and just decided to be me... warts and all.

I am tired of the perfectionist kink




KatyLied -> RE: the value of friendship in BDSM (10/17/2008 6:31:02 AM)

quote:


I am tired of the perfectionist kink


Yeah, and I have found that it helps if you have confidence in who you are and what you are about.  It makes it easier to let go of some of that sublier stuff.  I'd rather be one dominant's view of the perfect submissive than everyone's view of what a submissive should be.




SimplyMichael -> RE: the value of friendship in BDSM (10/17/2008 7:47:04 AM)

I have met some lifelong friends here and I love this place.  I have been on other boards (fetlife, triskellion, tribe) but none has the vibrancy that this place does.  There are also people here I would love to spend time with who I have probably never even contacted. 

Friendships are very important to me and as a few have stated, I wouldn't even consider a woman as a partner unless I could see her as a friend first.  Whatever happens for BSB and I, we will always be dear friends.




NuevaVida -> RE: the value of friendship in BDSM (10/17/2008 7:52:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I know that for the longest time I was "trying" a lot. Things have gotten better since I quit trying to be submissive and just decided to be me... warts and all.



Amen to that, sistah.

I have made amazing friends, both in the "BDSM lifestyle" and outside of it. Friends are critically important to me and without them I have no idea where I'd be in life. The friends I have, whether "kinky" or not, love me, understand me, accept me, and enjoy my presence in their life. And I feel the same about them a million times over. When married I was denied friends, so my appreciation for them now is greater than ever.




missturbation -> RE: the value of friendship in BDSM (10/17/2008 8:16:10 AM)

I value my friendships very highly. Why? Because i only have two true friends. I do not make 'friends' easily, aquaintances easy, but true valued friendships, nope.
 




ThundersCry -> RE: the value of friendship in BDSM (10/17/2008 1:52:31 PM)

A great read stella...
 
A real compliment to Lockit..who deserves such...
 
Above everything...and theres room for nothing more when you get *above everything*, for me friendship...first..
 
I have tried the *other* ways....very meaningless...for me.
 
Thanks for your post...




stella41b -> RE: the value of friendship in BDSM (10/17/2008 9:23:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

This is why an unstructured dynamic works for me because we just relate the way we relate without worrying about how submissive or dominant we are.


Julia, so much of what you write resonates with me. I have found things much easier if I can connect with someone on a friendship level first, where we can sit, talk, joke, hang out, have <gasp> vanilla sex, then slowly add the kink and D/s to it. I need to have a comfort level with a dominant as a person first and a dominant second. I used to think it was highly subly of me to be this way, I've come to the place where I accept it and if a dominant can't accept that about me I think too bad, you are missing out. I'm tired of trying too hard to be a submissive. [;)]



I was just curious... has it always been this way for you? It's just that what you write here resonates with me very strongly, and in my case has been consistently like this throughout. I'm just comparing notes here. This is why I feel friendship is the bedrock in some ways and the gateway to everything else.




MzMia -> RE: the value of friendship in BDSM (10/17/2008 10:53:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b


quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

This is why an unstructured dynamic works for me because we just relate the way we relate without worrying about how submissive or dominant we are.


Julia, so much of what you write resonates with me. I have found things much easier if I can connect with someone on a friendship level first, where we can sit, talk, joke, hang out, have <gasp> vanilla sex, then slowly add the kink and D/s to it. I need to have a comfort level with a dominant as a person first and a dominant second. I used to think it was highly subly of me to be this way, I've come to the place where I accept it and if a dominant can't accept that about me I think too bad, you are missing out. I'm tired of trying too hard to be a submissive. [;)]



I was just curious... has it always been this way for you? It's just that what you write here resonates with me very strongly, and in my case has been consistently like this throughout. I'm just comparing notes here. This is why I feel friendship is the bedrock in some ways and the gateway to everything else.


stella, stella, stella!
First of all, thank you for opening up and sharing

your life with us.
I am so sorry about your play, and the "damn" actress, she sounds very
unprofessional.
I am glad you are picking yourself up and going forward with your dreams and plans.
I am wishing you good luck, and I look forward to one day seeing one of your plays in London!
[;)]


I can not have ANY serious relationship with someone who is not a good and close friend first.
I am still a close friend of my ex-husband, we promised we would always help each other if either of us is in need.
I can honestly say, if he ever needs a place to crash or a soft place to land, he will always be a welcome guest in my home, regardless if I am living with someone else or married.
 
When we divorced I told him he could always call on me for the rest of my life and I meant it.
I can give you 20 examples of how he has helped me since we divorced.

Many, many people are in shock and awe over our friendship, they don't understand why we are not in an intimate relationship and I can tell you we have had no sexual contact long before we divorced.  LOL  
 
I do not love him in that way, but we were close friends FIRST, and I decided we needed to seperate and
divorce while we were still friends to save our friendship.
He has finally become serious with another woman, I will dance at his wedding, I will give a toast, and start
the soul train line for the happy couple.[:D]
Hell, I will be so happy to see the old buzzard remarry I might attempt to breakdance .
Picture me attempting to breakdance at his wedding, be prepared to call 911.
 YouTube - sofia boutella hung up
 I expect to be his friend forever, and also in the next life.
I figured out about 15 years ago, that I only wanted   serious relationships with people that were capable of being
close and loving friends, FIRST.
 
I have not changed the way I do serious "relationships" even in this lifestyle, this may be why I don't have many serious relationships, but I will not be changing the way I do serious "relationships. {vanilla, lifestyle BDSM, whatever.....}

I am glad you have a friendship with Lockit, and a few others on here that consider you a friend also.
[;)]




MzMia -> RE: the value of friendship in BDSM (10/17/2008 11:55:18 PM)

It is refreshing to read a post about the value of friendships
in BDSM.
We rarely read these types of inspirational stories.
It is nice to read and realize that people have found friends here
that are lifting them up, influencing them, inspiring them and
helping them to become better human beings.
There is indeed a great value in friendships in BDSM.




KnightofMists -> RE: the value of friendship in BDSM (10/18/2008 2:35:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b
But I'd like to open this now to other people among you all to perhaps come and share something which you have gained from your friendships with others from the BDSM community. I'm not talking about the relationships, the topping, bottoming, the kinks, the play, the sex, or anything that intimate - but what you have found, gained and discovered from your friends in the community.



I wrote the following sometime ago when I started a thread on what was Lifestyle Friendships.  I discovered during my own introspective considerations that friendship means alot to me and not something that I give easily.  I have had alot of sharing of experiences in the kinky/lifestyle aspect with others, but none except my girls and a couple others would I ever count on them being there when I needed them.  Everyone that I have had these shared experiences (with exception of a very very few) with have given me the impression that they where there for the experience I could give or share with them and not for the person that I am.  There is something immensely special about sharing experiences with someone that is there because of who are and not for what you can give them.  I don't have to look far to see Alandra and Kyra fit that description very well.... and there is not even a handful beyond that.  I have found that those who are there for the experience that you can give or share with them will seldom be there for long.  A few months... maybe even a year or two.  But... when they start to look else where for more experiences... what you thought might of been friendship is soon a passing memory.  But friends that are there for who you are always within reach no matter how far apart you might be.  You might not see them for months, maybe even years... but they are still one that you would be there for and they for you.

I have some very intense experiences with some incredible people.... but the thing I learned the most... is it's the people that make the experiences incredible.  As my old post states... I shared some very personal experiences with a dear friend.  They are non-lifestyle... one was a profoundly happy experience and the other was a profoundly sad experience... but both experiences strengthen the bond between us.  Without the shared values and admiration of character.. there was nothing to bond together.  The experiences are like the glue between two parts.  If the parts do not reasonable fit together into the appropriate relationship for each other... the experiences will not glue the individuals together for long.  But, when the indivduals are in the right relationship with each other... those experience are a glue that bond them together tightly.  My girls and I have what I consider to be an incredible relationship.  Our experiences together continue to bind us together with each passing day. 

The stronger the bond together, the more I have learned about myself as a result.  With my girls, two individuals that I am bonded tighter with than any other persons, there is a vulnerability that I have achieved that as caused me to look truly into who I am as a person.  My girls taught me more of myself than I think I could of learned from any other person, including myself.  My vulnerabiltiy to them has allowed me to both see my strengths and my weaknesses to a greater depth.  I am a better person because of the depth and strength of my friendships. 

I don't know what particular think I have learned most... but I do know that I am more kind and thoughtful because of them.  I know that because of them I have become better at managing my emotions, particularly my anger.  I find that I am becoming more disciplined and self-controlled.  I might even be more motivated in my daily life.  I have learned to be more open-minded and there different perspectives has given me a little more wisdom and insight.  I am just a better person in so many different ways.  I am not perfect... they don't consider me perfect, but none the less.. I think our relationship is perfect with all it's flaws.


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I have stated before in the past that relationships have an inherent risk associated to them.

“It takes only one person to end the relationship, but yet it takes two to have the relationship.”

The second part of this thought is most important in answering these questions. As much as I may admire or appreciate or want another’s friendship, it will not occur without their involvement and equal interest in having the relationship. If I place a higher degree of importance or significance to certain behaviors that someone else demonstrates, I can very easily delude myself that friendship exists when in fact it may only be a shared interest.

Friendships for me take time to develop. I am not one to identify anyone as friend when I have not met them or even know their name or been in their home. In the online environment, I am careful in not making assumptions that anyone is my friend and all the expectations and loyalties that go with that label. In the online environment, I do not have friendships but I have many acquaintances that have the potential for friendship. There are many on the forums that I have interacted privately with. This in of itself is not an indication of friendship or necessarily even an indication of liking the person. I find it difficult to so easily give friendship to anyone, without the time to share experiences and values with one another. There are many occasions that I have shared my personal thoughts with others in the online environment. On occasions, a few of these individuals hold my respect for the consistency of their thoughts and opinions that they have shared on the boards. But these, same people are not my friends. Meeting someone is of importance to me in acknowledging a friendship.

In consideration, meeting someone doesn’t in of itself represent friendship. I have had the opportunity to be introduced to John Warren by my kyra. I had the enjoyable pleasure to share a brief conversation with John, and thou I have met a fine individual, respect his thoughts and opinions that I have heard or read, I couldn’t consider him as a friend and I would doubt he considers myself as one either. We are acquaintances at best and more likely, just two individuals that share a common interest. For sharing experiences with another are the things that bind two people goes beyond shared interests or acquaintances.

One non-lifestyle friendship in particular comes to mind when I consider my friendships. This person not only went beyond shared interests that are non-lifestyle or opportunities to meet and share these common interests. But, this was a building in which experiences have occurred. Experiences that led to the desire to have him and his wife to be present in the room as my last unmentionable was brought into this world, an experience that neither of them would have in their life otherwise. It was the building of interests and experiences that led me to be by his side while his wife of over 20 years passed away. It was these things that led me to be in the room with him as he discussed with the Doctor the various options. It was these things that led me to be there to talk to him and help him make the most difficult decision of his life with regards to the various machines she was hooked up to. It was these things that led me to be there for the preparations for her burial. It was these things that led me to still have that friendship several years later.

Relationships are built upon not just shared values and ideas but shared experiences that build upon each other. It is my opinion that….. “Cheaply given… is cheaply value”…. I do not give cheaply the term friendship. I expect it to be earned both by myself and my friend. But, I do need to have those friendships… my two best friends being alandra and kyra.
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