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Lehman brothers bonds.....OUCH!!!!! - 10/11/2008 6:15:04 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline 		"The magnitude of the exposure came into focus on Friday, when the price of Lehman’s bonds was set via a closely watched auction on Wall Street. The debt was priced at a little above 8 cents on the dollar, leaving companies and funds that insured these debts against default on the hook for the remainder.

Whether those claims can or will be paid, and the financial repercussions that could follow if they are not, will signify the biggest test yet for the vast, unregulated market in credit-default swaps.

The danger is that the claims on the Lehman default are so large — they are estimated at $400 billion to $600 billion — that settling them could leave some companies with large, perhaps even crippling, losses and heighten the turmoil in the financial markets".

(Now THAT's gonna leave a mark!!!!)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/11/business/11credit.html?em

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 10/11/2008 6:17:26 PM >
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RE: Lehman brothers bonds.....OUCH!!!!! - 10/11/2008 7:33:04 PM   
OneMoreWaste


Posts: 910
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline 		Steal a chocolate bar, go to jail.
Steal a hundred billion, no problem


_____________________________

-and the few still remember passion over rage-

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
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RE: Lehman brothers bonds.....OUCH!!!!! - 10/11/2008 7:50:49 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste

Steal a chocolate bar, go to jail.
Steal a hundred billion, no problem



A friend of mine has a time machine.

Earth in 3 days:

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/starsgalaxies/Black_Hole.html

(in reply to OneMoreWaste)
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RE: Lehman brothers bonds.....OUCH!!!!! - 10/11/2008 9:15:06 PM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste

Steal a chocolate bar, go to jail.
Steal a hundred billion, no problem



Yeah it sucks. Especially since they probably didn't break any laws because no one bothered to make any to regulate this stuff! Well, there were a few people who tried, but they were pretty much told to shut up and sit down and quit trying to spoil the party.

(in reply to OneMoreWaste)
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RE: Lehman brothers bonds.....OUCH!!!!! - 10/11/2008 10:14:12 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

quote:

ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste

Steal a chocolate bar, go to jail.
Steal a hundred billion, no problem



Yeah it sucks. Especially since they probably didn't break any laws because no one bothered to make any to regulate this stuff! Well, there were a few people who tried, but they were pretty much told to shut up and sit down and quit trying to spoil the party.

Sums it up pretty nicely TNstepsout...guess who gets to pay the party bill ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Lehman brothers bonds.....OUCH!!!!! - 10/11/2008 11:09:10 PM   
NumberSix


Posts: 1378
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		Where is my good friend Thadius?

Remember we had a talk about that pile of money called 401(k)s.

Waa Laa!!!!

Viola, for those who cant speak french or discourse on very small violins, which now oversee your 401(k)s.

6 

_____________________________

"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

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RE: Lehman brothers bonds.....OUCH!!!!! - 10/12/2008 7:22:54 AM   
UncleNasty


Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
Status: offline 		I think what really stinks is that with the bailout comes no real or meaningful investigation into what, if any laws, may have been broken.

Also of interest is this. Many of the companies that were insuring against losses, a lot of which were in the mortgage industry/market were heavily invested in mortgages. Investing in the very very losses you're insuring against is off the charts stupid.

Uncle Nasty

(in reply to NumberSix)
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RE: Lehman brothers bonds.....OUCH!!!!! - 10/12/2008 7:32:54 AM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

I think what really stinks is that with the bailout comes no real or meaningful investigation into what, if any laws, may have been broken.

Also of interest is this. Many of the companies that were insuring against losses, a lot of which were in the mortgage industry/market were heavily invested in mortgages. Investing in the very very losses you're insuring against is off the charts stupid.

Uncle Nasty


I agree that there should be thorough investigation of what the root causes of this financial disaster are, who were the people pushing through legislation to get the banks to lend to sub-prime borrowers who could never repay those large mortgages, who were the mortgage brokers who took advantage of the desire of people to own their own home, who were the criminals that falsified their applications to get federal guaranteed loans, the bankers who falsified statements of credit worthiness..the Wall Street firms that did not disclose all the details of MBS according to required due diligence regulations.  The investigation should include ALL those responsible be brought out into the sunlight of total public exposre..politicians, businessmen, corporations, bankers, of every stripe and form.

In the meantime, however, the FIRST PRIORITY is to try to salvage a financial system wracked by a total loss of confidence.  If we can't get that done...all of us are major losers.  Than lets hang the criminals high!

(in reply to UncleNasty)
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RE: Lehman brothers bonds.....OUCH!!!!! - 10/12/2008 8:00:58 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I agree with you both.

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RE: Lehman brothers bonds.....OUCH!!!!! - 10/12/2008 10:50:26 AM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

e
quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

I think what really stinks is that with the bailout comes no real or meaningful investigation into what, if any laws, may have been broken.

Also of interest is this. Many of the companies that were insuring against losses, a lot of which were in the mortgage industry/market were heavily invested in mortgages. Investing in the very very losses you're insuring against is off the charts stupid.

Uncle Nasty


I take solace that someone  finally agrees with me:  that those responsible for this  should be run to ground either civilly or criminally.  However, the government is still going to use the portfolio managers who created this mess to deal with the derivitive problem.  That conflict of interest appalls me.  Several years ago my daughter asked a question of one of these high fliers:  "What happens when the bubble bursts?"  The answer made me  mad then and infuriates me to this day:  "Oh, we do not worry.  The government will step in, save the market, and bail us out so we can start all over again."  If we do not first punish the guilty (even if only civilly) and then inact specific criminal penalties for the future, they intend to do it again.

(in reply to UncleNasty)
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RE: Lehman brothers bonds.....OUCH!!!!! - 10/12/2008 11:51:00 AM   
ncprincess


Posts: 89
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		I wonder why the ones that royally screwed everything up are given the multi-million dollar "early retirement" deal. A commentary in my local newpaper stated it was a good deal, better to give these guys the multi-million dollar package and get them out the door before they lose billions more. I don't know about anyone else, but, the corporate world I work in it would be a bit different. If I screwed up like that at work, there wouldn't be people smiling at me...patting me on the back and handing me a folder that out lines how often and in what amount my mulit-million dollar "early retirement" checks would start arriving. My badge wouldn't have clearance to allow me in the building any longer...someone from HR would walk with me to my desk to help box up my stuff and would then escort me to the door. I would hear the word "terminated" NOT offered a sweet early retirement deal.

I am tired of paying my carpayment though...I wonder if Bush would give me a "bail-out" for those last few months on the contract.....

(in reply to Lorr47)
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RE: Lehman brothers bonds.....OUCH!!!!! - 10/12/2008 12:35:49 PM   
OneMoreWaste


Posts: 910
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ncprincess
If I screwed up like that at work, there wouldn't be people smiling at me...patting me on the back and handing me a folder that out lines how often and in what amount my mulit-million dollar "early retirement" checks would start arriving. My badge wouldn't have clearance to allow me in the building any longer...someone from HR would walk with me to my desk to help box up my stuff and would then escort me to the door. I would hear the word "terminated" NOT offered a sweet early retirement deal.


Have you heard the expression: "It's good to be the King"?

He who has the gold makes the rules. You really can't be surprised when you discover that the rules favor him.


_____________________________

-and the few still remember passion over rage-

(in reply to ncprincess)
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RE: Lehman brothers bonds.....OUCH!!!!! - 10/12/2008 4:24:05 PM   
ncprincess


Posts: 89
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		Not surprised, just disgusted. I want a weekend at that spa as well.

(in reply to OneMoreWaste)
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RE: Lehman brothers bonds.....OUCH!!!!! - 10/12/2008 4:29:34 PM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste

quote:

ORIGINAL: ncprincess
I wonder why the ones that royally screwed everything up are given the multi-million dollar "early retirement" deal. A commentary in my local newpaper stated it was a good deal, better to give these guys the multi-million dollar package and get them out the door before they lose billions more. I don't know about anyone else, but, the corporate world I work in it would be a bit different.  If I screwed up like that at work, there wouldn't be people smiling at me...patting me on the back and handing me a folder that out lines how often and in what amount my mulit-million dollar "early retirement" checks would start arriving. My badge wouldn't have clearance to allow me in the building any longer...someone from HR would walk with me to my desk to help box up my stuff and would then escort me to the door. I would hear the word "terminated" NOT offered a sweet early retirement deal.


Have you heard the expression: "It's good to be the King"?

He who has the gold makes the rules. You really can't be surprised when you discover that the rules favor him.



What I wonder is, why do we put up with it? There's how many millions more of us than of them? We pay for these companies' products. We work for them. We make them run. What would happen if we just... stopped?

(in reply to OneMoreWaste)
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RE: Lehman brothers bonds.....OUCH!!!!! - 10/12/2008 5:41:03 PM   
ncprincess


Posts: 89
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		Then the government would just "bail" them out again with our tax money. It doesn't seem to matter that we are the ones stuck with the bill or that the next few generations are going to be paying back that money....all that seems to matter is that the CEO's of those companies are able to walk away from the business with a severance package "worthy" of their great financial abilities...we just have to forgive them for this oversight. Whatever happened to the concept the government was "for the people, by the people". Granted we vote (at least I'd hope so), yet once in office it seems as if they all go crazy. Why can't we fire them? Why have to wait until the next election and hope they aren't reelected? Why not pack them up and ship them out?

(in reply to Ialdabaoth)
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RE: Lehman brothers bonds.....OUCH!!!!! - 10/12/2008 8:00:19 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth
What I wonder is, why do we put up with it? There's how many millions more of us than of them? We pay for these companies' products. We work for them. We make them run. What would happen if we just... stopped?



(They'd still have the gold).

(in reply to Ialdabaoth)
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RE: Lehman brothers bonds.....OUCH!!!!! - 10/13/2008 2:18:18 AM   
JulieorSarah


Posts: 552
Joined: 8/25/2007
Status: offline 		Lehman Brothers ... have had a large impact here (Australia) too!
Our local council has a loss that is soon to be identified, but it's in the millions, with a shire of less than 70,000 people we'll be driving on rough roads, decreased garbage, water and other such services while paying higher rates for the privelige for a decade or more ... stupidly they are talking of chasing these losses ... if what is written above is true, 8c in the dollar, and then we are doing this legal battle a hemisphere away ... i hope we don't chase this.

My superannuation has just taken a dive, so rather than working until i'm 60, it's now looking like 80 ... but i have a roof over my head and a vegie garden ... just need a few chooks, and a sheep or two and i'll be fine!

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
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