RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in?

RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in? (Full Version)

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tweedydaddy -> RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in? (10/8/2008 11:26:56 AM)
You have to go through a lot of dust to find a diamond

DesFIP -> RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in? (10/8/2008 11:51:31 AM)
Just because he expects sex doesn't mean you have to give it to him. If you want to negotiate to be friends with pain play only, then do so. Be honest that as you two aren't good fodder for a long term monogamous relationship, you won't have sex with him. But you might want to rethink the no public thing. Because it's easier to get a nonsexual play session in a public dungeon where sex play is not allowed.

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in? (10/8/2008 12:17:33 PM)
Hello Moonvine, I can understand how problematic (even unlikely) it might seem, to keep your options open while involved in a casual relationship. I know that I'm open to polygamy, though I have always been monogamous personally. This might sound like a contradiction, but it isn't. It is simply that I'm happy in a monogamous relationship and wouldn't be inclined toward seeking - however, I'm happy in a polygamous relationship too. Anyway! My point here, is I understand how you would be uncomfortable with the notion of seeking while involved even casually. The problem here, is I'm sure you know how easy it is to become complacent in a situation that is less than satisfactory. It is likely you will not bother to look, since it isn't in your nature to do so and before long you will find yourself older and still unfulfilled and by your own acknowledgement tied to someone who has no ties to you. Whether this is acceptable to you, only you can say. Is it better to exist on half a loaf? No one can answer that for YOU. Honestly, understanding your nature as I THINK I do and how unlikely it would be for you to go against your own comfort zone and nature, I would highly discourage you from getting involved in a casual unfulfilling relationship. But, that's just me. Best wishes, WinD

Lockit -> RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in? (10/8/2008 12:29:21 PM)
Whether you can play the casual thing or not, I would like to address how you are thinking on that half a loaf thing. You can get just as many crumbs from half a loaf as you can a whole loaf and most likely will. Thinking that life has passed you by and there isn't much time left for getting a whole loaf is fear speaking and when fear is speaking, you are going to be led astray unless you are in a dangerous situation that requires some fear for real protection. Fear can be good or bad and in this situation, you are afriad of the wrong things. Actually you should be afraid in this situation and you should be afraid of that fear of being alone and left behind simply because of the life clock. Be very afraid... of how you are thinking, it will allow you to do things dangerous to yourself and you are not living true to who you are because of fear. Don't let the wrong kind of fear rule you. I do understand this thinking very well, but have rejected it for what it is. You see, I am ill and have a few situations in life that suggest that I won't be able to find someone to end my life with. I know the lonely days and nights... the face in the mirror... the sag where once something didn't sag... the bags that don't hold luggage. I also know that there are others out there with the same time lag and sags and bags who would joyfully look into my youthful eyes... gently hold the sags and bags and will love my spirit, heart and all else. Life doesn't end when we get to the sags and bags... sometimes it starts! Don't give up on yourself because if you do, you limit yourself to half a loaf and will resent that and anyone who accepts your accepting far less because of age, insecurity or anything else. You can't live happily munching on half a loaf when you know you have compromized because you didn't think you were worth the whole loaf. It is a matter of self respect. Compromize and sooner or later that compromize will bash you in the face or kick your ass in not a sadistic manner, but an unhealthy for you way. Don't do it! You know better. You are your own red flag here and if you fly that flag... you will one day know what burning the flag means. Start working on feeling better in your own skin even if there are a few wrinkles in it... start seeing the beauty of who you are and your worth. Stop looking into that mirror and seeing age... time... hindrences and start seeing who you really are and your worth. You are worth far more than you currently think. Make time and alone, your friend and stop being afraid of them. Once you accept them, you will see that you are not afraid of them and can wait and hold your head up high while doing so. Someone may just see that and be very attracted to you because you don't compromize and you don't live in fear and that independence and strength will attract those who value such things. Hang in there and don't give up on the best a whole loaf has to offer!

stella41b -> RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in? (10/8/2008 12:40:07 PM)
I'm not sure about the half loaf or full loaf bit, but it's probably better than always ending up with a few crackers.

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in? (10/8/2008 12:43:15 PM)
I dunno, crackers can be fun. Especially if they are shaped like animals....

giveeverything -> RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in? (10/8/2008 12:44:26 PM)
OP - Hey, I'm 41 and I, along with most women I know, have a very imperfect body, and well... you know, all that stuff. When my relationship feel apart last year I thought that was the end of the road for me. However, I took a different route. If that's the end of the road, then I'm gonna enjoy the last bumpy ride. I did, what I like to call, tap into my inner slut. I had several (read more than I'd ever had before) casual sexual relationships (I never thought this was for me) and I was upfront with them that I didn't want a bf or gf (hey, I played the field). And then, low and behold, out of nowhere, I meet the person who very well may turn out to be my soul mate (whatever that means). I credit even being open to the idea to the fact that I was actually seeing myself as sexual. I really was doing what seemed unnatural to my nature -- playing the field, not looking for the all-or-nothing (oh that was trap for me earlier in life). I was still safe, I was still considerate, I was still moral and ethical. AND I was sexual and open and tapped into that part of my psyche for maybe the first time in my life. Not only can it happen - I think, for me at least, it happened because I wasn't afraid of my own physical needs. This may or may not relate to you at all so take it for what it's worth. BTW... the new guy... didn't meant him through a kink channel, met him in a local coffee shop and he just happens to be kinky enough for me (and loving enough and kind enough and caring enough.... gush, gush, gush).

Lockit -> RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in? (10/8/2008 12:46:11 PM)
Stella... I plan some hot soup for those damn crackers! You are in a soggy mess now! hehe... Darlin... you are beautiful inside and out and are loved greatly. Please don't go there.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in? (10/8/2008 12:46:43 PM)
~fast reply~ Ok, IMO, every relationship starts out as a 'casual' relationship. It makes absolutely no sense to start a relationship with promises of forever. It takes time to get to know someone, and to get to figure out whether the relationship is going to work into something profound. Sometimes, a relationship that starts off casual and where neither party has any intention of it becoming anything more than that -still- ends up getting serious and becoming a key factor in their lives. Sometimes, that short relationship puts us in a position where we meet someone that we otherwise wouldn't have met, who is that link to a fulfilling, long-term relationship. I don't discount relationships just because someone says "I'd rather stay casual." Frankly, I'm not a fortune-teller, so I can't see the future. If I think the person is a good fit for me and for my situation, I am willing to take that chance on this relationship being something that will be fulfilling for this place and this time, and I let the future worry about itself. Calla Firestorm

marieToo -> RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in? (10/8/2008 2:12:24 PM)
Why are you twisting this into you not being "good enough"? The way it reads (unless Im confused, which is entirely possible) is that he doesn't want to become serious with someone who is long distance. That's just his preference, it's not about you personally. Even if your age has something to do with it, it's still about preference and not really about you. I guess my first point is that you are feeling all these negatives about not being "good enough", but you are creating them in your own mind. I mean, I think it's good that your eyes are open about what he wants, or doesn't want, but to make that about you, I think, is kind of self destructive on some level. I think in general I would say as long as both yours and his eyes are open and you can enjoy this for what it is then go your separate ways, then you should go for it, enjoy it, then move on. But, I don't know, the feeling I get when I read your post is that your heart is already into this, and you seem almost 'hurt' already by the fact that he is never going to want more than something casual with you. I'm just saying think long and hard before you start submitting to him thinking you can keep it in check, because how hurt are you going to be after you're emotionally invested in this and it's time for him to move on? Ya know, it's not him or nobody. You'll meet someone else who "gets you". Just because you're jiving with this guy on certain levels doesn't mean he's the only one out there who you're going to have that feeling with. You'll find the exact same thing with a guy who wants a ltr too. I guess what I'm saying is don't act out of some imagined desparation. You're not desparate and you don't have to settle for someone that isn't going to fulfill you, or worse yet, maybe hurt you, because you believe you can't do better. If the ass whipping and a fuck or two is worth the risk of the emotional baggage this might leave you with, then go for it. Otherwise don't. If you really felt good about this in the first place, would you have written here about it?

SailingBum -> RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in? (10/8/2008 2:20:06 PM)
Im thinking stick with what works BadOne

persephonee -> RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in? (10/8/2008 2:43:25 PM)
moon... There is so much here to respond to that im kinda confuzzled...but ill try. i understand your pain and frustration at your situation and i feel for ya. i read and felt a lot of despair and depression and just in general negativity in your post and subsequent responses...and im super negative so i would know. Problem is, if you put the negative out there, thats all youre going to get in return. i play with people on a "casual" basis...and yannow what? Every single dom that tops me in a scene would drive like a maniac if i called to say that i needed help. Why? Because they want to get into my pants? Nah, theyve been there...trust me, thats not it. The reason they would come to my aid is that they like me. We are friends. Are either of them going to marry me and we can start adopting children and create some sort of reality show? Nope. Are either of them even going to collar me and call me their own? Not really. Would i accept the invitation? Not on your life. We are simply not meant to be together that way. None of us would make the other happy...beyond belief happy...i only want to be with you...happy. Just isnt the case. So we are casual. i would be happiest or most content in a relationship and i have certain specific needs that would have to be met...no negociations, in order for the relationship to work. As it see things right now, i dont know that that is ever going to happen for me. Perhaps in a few years, when the non negociable specific need is in high school or out of the house...but for now, im on my own. Dont think for a second that if i saw "him" that i wouldnt hop right on and wrap my...well you get my point...i would recognise the compatibility and further the relationship. Instantly. Because that is my end goal here. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, there are things that need to get done, whether i have my cowboy or not. So i create the life i need and want in my own corner of the world and i let what will be....just be. If you cant learn to self soothe, you are never going to be in a peaceful enough place to attract the kind of peace and contentment you are looking for. We have all been there...suck it up and learn to compromise...not in what your ultimate goal is, but look outside the box to find ways to meet that goal. Just sayin... peace, ~perse~

moonvine -> RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in? (10/8/2008 2:48:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW ~fast reply~ Ok, IMO, every relationship starts out as a 'casual' relationship. It makes absolutely no sense to start a relationship with promises of forever. It takes time to get to know someone, and to get to figure out whether the relationship is going to work into something profound. Sometimes, a relationship that starts off casual and where neither party has any intention of it becoming anything more than that -still- ends up getting serious and becoming a key factor in their lives. Sometimes, that short relationship puts us in a position where we meet someone that we otherwise wouldn't have met, who is that link to a fulfilling, long-term relationship. I don't discount relationships just because someone says "I'd rather stay casual." Frankly, I'm not a fortune-teller, so I can't see the future. If I think the person is a good fit for me and for my situation, I am willing to take that chance on this relationship being something that will be fulfilling for this place and this time, and I let the future worry about itself. Calla Firestorm I think either you are misunderstanding what I said or I didn't say it very well. Or maybe I don't understand what you are saying. I have a degree in English ; I swear I was able to communicate clearly in writing at one time, but I think the Internet has rotted my brain. This person did not say "I'd rather stay casual", this person said "I do not under any circumstances see any kind of long term relationship forming here ever." I'm also mightily confused about how I can say all my private parts belong to someone else, then continue to date other people. "Sorry, I can date you but you can never touch me anywhere because all my naughty bits are someone else's property and you can't touch them without his permission?" That just doesn't meet my definition of casual.

moonvine -> RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in? (10/8/2008 3:07:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo Why are you twisting this into you not being "good enough"? The way it reads (unless Im confused, which is entirely possible) is that he doesn't want to become serious with someone who is long distance. That's just his preference, it's not about you personally. Even if your age has something to do with it, it's still about preference and not really about you. I guess my first point is that you are feeling all these negatives about not being "good enough", but you are creating them in your own mind. I mean, I think it's good that your eyes are open about what he wants, or doesn't want, but to make that about you, I think, is kind of self destructive on some level. I'm not trying to, and I guess some further explanation of the word "fat" is needed. I wasn't really thinking about it, because I'm kind of used to hanging out in the fat community, but in the fat community fat doesn't have a negative connotation attached to it, just like "sadist" doesn't have a negative connotation attached to it here, but has more of a neutral tone to it. I don't intend to make it about me, either, I'm just frustrated that I could miss something so very basic. I mean do I have to start every conversation with "Could you ever see yourself in a long term relationship with someone of my distance/age/race/sex/level of kink/sexual orientation, blah blah blah?" I mean, I'm not poly, and know I never will be, so if I get an email from someone who is interested in potentially exploring that with me, I just say "Thanks, and I'm flattered, but that's not what I'm looking for." Why couldn't he just have done this to start with? (That's not about me, that's about him!) quote: But, I don't know, the feeling I get when I read your post is that your heart is already into this, and you seem almost 'hurt' already by the fact that he is never going to want more than something casual with you. Yes, I am. quote: Ya know, it's not him or nobody. You'll meet someone else who "gets you". Just because you're jiving with this guy on certain levels doesn't mean he's the only one out there who you're going to have that feeling with. You'll find the exact same thing with a guy who wants a ltr too. I've been looking on some level for close to 30 years. Well, maybe more like 28ish. Yeah, I was the 15 year old trying to get her bf to tie her up and having him say "Get away from me, you freak." At what point do you say enough looking is enough?

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in? (10/8/2008 3:11:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: moonvine I think either you are misunderstanding what I said or I didn't say it very well. Or maybe I don't understand what you are saying. I have a degree in English ; I swear I was able to communicate clearly in writing at one time, but I think the Internet has rotted my brain. This person did not say "I'd rather stay casual", this person said "I do not under any circumstances see any kind of long term relationship forming here ever." I'm also mightily confused about how I can say all my private parts belong to someone else, then continue to date other people. "Sorry, I can date you but you can never touch me anywhere because all my naughty bits are someone else's property and you can't touch them without his permission?" That just doesn't meet my definition of casual. Ok, let's see if I can word this differently, and maybe make for better clarity. IMO, it doesn't matter whether this guy only wants a casual relationship or not -- if everything else fits well and it fills a need in my life, I'm not going to stress about tomorrow -- just relish the day and what it brings. Whether he says he never wants a long-term relationship or not is kind of irrelevant, in my mind. I said I -never- wanted to marry or have kids. I was married for 13 years, and have 3 children by birth and one by assimilation. Just because a person is vehement doesn't mean that life won't toss a curve-ball.... at the same time, there's no reason to count on a curve being thrown. Maybe this -will- only be a short-term, casual relationship and that's all it will ever be. In my mind, every relationship brings something with it. So maybe he isn't The One -- but maybe he -knows- The One, and it's through being with this guy that you'll finally connect with the person that is the perfect fit for you. At that point, on an open-ended relationship, you can just say "Hey, I've found someone, and it feels right to me, and I want to be available for whatever this new relationship brings." That's an advantage to a casual relationship. It sort of sounds, to me anyway, like you're -trying- to make this a huge, insurmountable problem, when, for me at least, it just doesn't seem insurmountable. You say that you'd have trouble dating if you had a casual Master who 'owned' your breasts, mouth and pussy... ok, well then don't give him ownership.... If he wants a casual relationship, I'm pretty sure he'd be satisfied with "You can use these when I'm with you, but when I'm not here, everything reverts to being my own to manage, including deciding who gets to touch what." It's all about how you look at things. If you insist on seeing mountains, it's hard to find solutions. If you're looking for solutions, you have to recognize that the problem is solvable. If you're only going to be satisfied with "Mr. Perfect and All The Way", that's fine -- but then why are you even debating (with yourself or anyone else) the value of this possible casual, part-time relationship? Waiting for Mr. Perfect is also going to mean going without getting your needs met until you find him... nothing wrong with that, but if that's the choice, then you need to embrace that choice from a position of pride and strength, rather than as something to complain and feel bad about yourself about. Finding a life-partner isn't an instant process for most of us, and the fact that one hasn't shown up in x amount of time doesn't mean that that person isn't out there -- just that we haven't figured out how to connect yet. As far as appearance and self-denigration, if you view my profile, you'll see that I am a large woman. I'm also 46 years old. I've only been active in WIITWD for a little over a decade. I have an active scene life, and have had both long-term and casual partners, and haven't had one of them think I was ugly, mis-shapen, or someone to dismiss, either during training, when I served to earn my crop, or after my manumission and elevation to Keeper in our household. I talk to women all the time who are in their 40s and 50s, and even a few older than that who are able to find fulfillment in WIITWD. None of them look like Raquel Welch, but they're all downright gorgeous in their own way. Don't sell yourself short. If you stop believing in yourself, it's hard for anyone else to believe in you. Calla Firestorm

moonvine -> RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in? (10/8/2008 3:19:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP Just because he expects sex doesn't mean you have to give it to him. If you want to negotiate to be friends with pain play only, then do so. Be honest that as you two aren't good fodder for a long term monogamous relationship, you won't have sex with him. But you might want to rethink the no public thing. Because it's easier to get a nonsexual play session in a public dungeon where sex play is not allowed. I cannot even imagine under what circumstances I would reconsider that. Married to someone for 20 years maybe, and doing it as some kind of anniversary gift? Anyway no circumstances that currently exist or I could see existing. Public play is a hard limit for me. I'm glad for all those who like it, but I'd rather stay home and watch Baywatch reruns or scrub out litter pans or something. (Which I need to do anyway - the litter pans, not the Baywatch!)

moonvine -> RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in? (10/8/2008 3:36:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW quote: ORIGINAL: moonvine I think either you are misunderstanding what I said or I didn't say it very well. Or maybe I don't understand what you are saying. I have a degree in English ; I swear I was able to communicate clearly in writing at one time, but I think the Internet has rotted my brain. This person did not say "I'd rather stay casual", this person said "I do not under any circumstances see any kind of long term relationship forming here ever." I'm also mightily confused about how I can say all my private parts belong to someone else, then continue to date other people. "Sorry, I can date you but you can never touch me anywhere because all my naughty bits are someone else's property and you can't touch them without his permission?" That just doesn't meet my definition of casual. Ok, let's see if I can word this differently, and maybe make for better clarity. IMO, it doesn't matter whether this guy only wants a casual relationship or not -- if everything else fits well and it fills a need in my life, I'm not going to stress about tomorrow -- just relish the day and what it brings. Whether he says he never wants a long-term relationship or not is kind of irrelevant, in my mind. I said I -never- wanted to marry or have kids. I was married for 13 years, and have 3 children by birth and one by assimilation. Just because a person is vehement doesn't mean that life won't toss a curve-ball.... at the same time, there's no reason to count on a curve being thrown. Maybe this -will- only be a short-term, casual relationship and that's all it will ever be. In my mind, every relationship brings something with it. So maybe he isn't The One -- but maybe he -knows- The One, and it's through being with this guy that you'll finally connect with the person that is the perfect fit for you. At that point, on an open-ended relationship, you can just say "Hey, I've found someone, and it feels right to me, and I want to be available for whatever this new relationship brings." That's an advantage to a casual relationship. It sort of sounds, to me anyway, like you're -trying- to make this a huge, insurmountable problem, when, for me at least, it just doesn't seem insurmountable. You say that you'd have trouble dating if you had a casual Master who 'owned' your breasts, mouth and pussy... ok, well then don't give him ownership.... If he wants a casual relationship, I'm pretty sure he'd be satisfied with "You can use these when I'm with you, but when I'm not here, everything reverts to being my own to manage, including deciding who gets to touch what." It's all about how you look at things. If you insist on seeing mountains, it's hard to find solutions. If you're looking for solutions, you have to recognize that the problem is solvable. If you're only going to be satisfied with "Mr. Perfect and All The Way", that's fine -- but then why are you even debating (with yourself or anyone else) the value of this possible casual, part-time relationship? Waiting for Mr. Perfect is also going to mean going without getting your needs met until you find him... nothing wrong with that, but if that's the choice, then you need to embrace that choice from a position of pride and strength, rather than as something to complain and feel bad about yourself about. Finding a life-partner isn't an instant process for most of us, and the fact that one hasn't shown up in x amount of time doesn't mean that that person isn't out there -- just that we haven't figured out how to connect yet. As far as appearance and self-denigration, if you view my profile, you'll see that I am a large woman. I'm also 46 years old. I've only been active in WIITWD for a little over a decade. I have an active scene life, and have had both long-term and casual partners, and haven't had one of them think I was ugly, mis-shapen, or someone to dismiss, either during training, when I served to earn my crop, or after my manumission and elevation to Keeper in our household. I talk to women all the time who are in their 40s and 50s, and even a few older than that who are able to find fulfillment in WIITWD. None of them look like Raquel Welch, but they're all downright gorgeous in their own way. Don't sell yourself short. If you stop believing in yourself, it's hard for anyone else to believe in you. Calla Firestorm This makes sense to me; thank you very much for taking the time and trouble to write it (twice, apparently!).

moonvine -> RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in? (10/8/2008 3:44:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaamJay And sheesh, stop complaining! I'm over 50 and fat ... it hasn't stopped Me! I have tended to find those involved in bdsm are a bit less hung up on looks than those in vanilla-land ... they are somewhat more interested in what lies beneath. I don't think I've ever seen the body beautiful in a play party in someone's dungeon! All the ones I've seen have flaws somewhere ... some are too skinny (anyone for spare ribs?), but many are too fat, have stretch marks, have floppy bits that gave up fighting gravity years ago ... and that's just the guys LMAO! Well, no, the women fit the same description and you know what ... it doesn't matter one bit. Perhaps if you weren't so anti going to such an event (you don't have to play there if you really don't want to) ... you might see that for yourself and be able to view yourself with less jaundiced eyes. At the moment, you are so down on yourself ... who would see you as attractive if you don't think of yourself that way? By all means be realistic but don't be negative! I do think of myself as attractive. I'm fat, and pretty - they aren't mutually exclusive. And I don't have any wrinkles - fat is a great wrinkle filler:) I've been to play parties...several times...don't like them....don't want to go again...not going to. I might go to a munch this weekend, I go to one about once a year, maybe twice a year. Everyone says, "Who are you; are you new?" and I say "Nope, I've been a member for about 8 years now." It is pretty funny. But seriously, it seems you only need to put your hand on a hot stove burner a certain number of times before you figure out you don't like it and aren't going to begin to like it. (Or you do like it and want to do it all the time, whichever).:)

littlewonder -> RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in? (10/8/2008 3:53:41 PM)
I'm basically in the same position. I don't do the whole public bdsm thing, I don't get into munches, parties, etc..not poly, not looking for anything casual, not looking to be beat for the sake of being beat and yes many times I've walked away from it all and moved on with the rest of my life, stopped dating entirely. I feel the majority of the time that I no longer belong in these parts and have been told more times than I can rememeber that I don't belong here because I'm not seeking what it seems like so many are. All I can tell you is to stick to your values and if it doesn't feel comfortable then don't do it. Only you can answer these questions that are going through your mind. You'll have to wrestle with them until you finally have that epiphany moment that is the deciding factor. I wish you the best of luck and hope that you come to that lightbulb moment for what's right for you.

SlaveIndigochild -> RE: Misunderstandings, miscommunication and where do I fit in? (10/8/2008 4:51:18 PM)
Dear Moonvine: You are a masochist. You seem to want a long term relationship or at least something more than casual? You need pain. i am a slave. i am also a submissive. i am also a masochist. i am also (lesser these days) an emotional masochist. Well emotional pain is also pain right? i did do casual. It hurt emotionally. But the physical pain was real good. i cried not because of welts or bruises but because of the emotional dissonance. i loved the tears. i love tears now as without limits i cry quite often. Go for it......three years is too long in my personal opinion.

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