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RE: Lifestyle versus Way of Life - 10/7/2008 4:25:40 AM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
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I'm feeling opinionated this morning...

1. Sometimes we use the term "lifestyle" as if it were "the" lifestyle, in the same way we might otherwise say WIITWD, leather, BDSM, etc. Used in this manner, I'm not even sure that it's always a genuine reference to one's style of life.

2. I believe that power exchange relationships, as ongoing dynamics, can rise to the genuine level of "lifestyle" in a denotative sense. I do not believe the same can be said for sensation play, any more than we would refer to the bowling lifestyle, gardening lifestyle, golfing lifestyle, basketball lifestyle, etc.

3. I believe that when the term "lifestyle" is used, many folks think of some outward visual manifestation. Maybe they expect folks to always be in fetish wear.

4. It's interesting to note that some people seem to feel the need to make a big deal out of the fact that their "lifestyle" is not vanilla, and others do not. I often wonder if this is evidence of a fetish.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to DavanKael)

Post #: 21

RE: Lifestyle versus Way of Life - 10/7/2008 6:01:37 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
1. Sometimes we use the term "lifestyle" as if it were "the" lifestyle, in the same way we might otherwise say WIITWD, leather, BDSM, etc. Used in this manner, I'm not even sure that it's always a genuine reference to one's style of life.

Interesting, but even in this context, I shun the term.

quote:

2. I believe that power exchange relationships, as ongoing dynamics, can rise to the genuine level of "lifestyle" in a denotative sense. I do not believe the same can be said for sensation play, any more than we would refer to the bowling lifestyle, gardening lifestyle, golfing lifestyle, basketball lifestyle, etc.

This doesn't seem right to me. It seems that people who place a huge focus on whatever dynamic they are interested in.. BD, SM, or DS... are the ones who are also very focused on "lifestyle". This kind of makes sense. If something is hugely important to a person, they are going to declare it as a major part of their lifestyle. It doesn't matter whether it's DS, whips and chains, or golf.

quote:

3. I believe that when the term "lifestyle" is used, many folks think of some outward visual manifestation. Maybe they expect folks to always be in fetish wear.

Nope, I'm not buying this one except in some very limited cases... perhaps people brand new into exploring "the scene".

quote:

4. It's interesting to note that some people seem to feel the need to make a big deal out of the fact that their "lifestyle" is not vanilla, and others do not. I often wonder if this is evidence of a fetish.

For me, at least, the important things have not changed in my life since I collared my wife. I am still in love with and living with the woman who is central to my life and happiness. That's why it's hard to get behind our D/s as any sort of lifestyle thing. Sadly, they don't have any lifestyle word for "straight married couple". If there was such a word or phrase, that'd be what was critically important to me and it would be how I identified my "lifestyle". Despite how much we love our new marriage model, it is the sizzle, not the steak. Interestingly, I'd say I go the other way. I'm clinging to "vanilla" with a death grip and have an active aversion to identifying with the lifestyle, scene, BDSM, or kink. In a sense, I'm still making a "big deal" of it, just in the opposite direction.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 22

RE: Lifestyle versus Way of Life - 10/7/2008 6:13:17 AM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

If something is hugely important to a person, they are going to declare it as a major part of their lifestyle. It doesn't matter whether it's DS, whips and chains, or golf.

I understand what you mean, but I make a distinction between a "huge part of their lifestyle" and their lifestyle. No matter how large that part is, you can't "live" golf, bowling, or flogging (though we often use that sort of term as an exaggeration). You can "live" a power exchange, given that it is always present. It's kind of like the difference between a 24/7 scene (impossible) and a 24/7 power exchange (possible).

quote:

3. I believe that when the term "lifestyle" is used, many folks think of some outward visual manifestation. Maybe they expect folks to always be in fetish wear.

[quote}
Nope, I'm not buying this one except in some very limited cases... perhaps people brand new into exploring "the scene".

Then how else do you explain the many that eschew the term "lifestyle" because they are "simply living their life"? Obviously, they have the impression that there's something more to it.

quote:

4. It's interesting to note that some people seem to feel the need to make a big deal out of the fact that their "lifestyle" is not vanilla, and others do not. I often wonder if this is evidence of a fetish.

quote:

For me, at least, the important things have not changed in my life since I collared my wife. I am still in love with and living with the woman who is central to my life and happiness. That's why it's hard to get behind our D/s as any sort of lifestyle thing.

Conversely, I might observe that as evidence that a power exchange relationship (which you were engaged in prior to your involvement in or knowledge of BDSM) was your existing lifestyle. BDSM didn't "make" you into anything you were not. On the other hand, I'm not here to define you or anyone else and hope you recognize this as a simple intellectual pursuit.

quote:

Sadly, they don't have any lifestyle word for "straight married couple". If there was such a word or phrase, that'd be what was critically important to me and it would be how I identified my "lifestyle". Despite how much we love our new marriage model, it is the sizzle, not the steak. Interestingly, I'd say I go the other way. I'm clinging to "vanilla" with a death grip and have an active aversion to identifying with the lifestyle, scene, BDSM, or kink. In a sense, I'm still making a "big deal" of it, just in the opposite direction.

Use whatever terms appeal to you... it doesn't change who and what you are one iota. :)

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 23

RE: Lifestyle versus Way of Life - 10/7/2008 6:49:32 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
4. It's interesting to note that some people seem to feel the need to make a big deal out of the fact that their "lifestyle" is not vanilla, and others do not. I often wonder if this is evidence of a fetish.

I've thought this too. In my own case, I have a need to be different, but no desire to be. I'm not down on myself because I am different (though when I was a teen I was -- when I hear about teens hating their own homosexuality I can relate, even though I'm hetero). On the other hand, I get no jollies or feelings of superiority because I am "separated from the herd." Some people have a desire to be out-there, spooky, your worst nightmare... and they make clear that they are very very non-vanilla. I think such people are more likely to self-identify as "Lifestyle BDSM."

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 24

RE: Lifestyle versus Way of Life - 10/7/2008 7:14:04 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
I understand what you mean, but I make a distinction between a "huge part of their lifestyle" and their lifestyle. No matter how large that part is, you can't "live" golf...

You obviously haven't met my father *laughs*. I swear, when he isn't golfing, he is reading a golf magazine or watching golf on TV. (kidding, I get what you mean, although I'm not really 100% in agreement. I do know people who would quite seriously tell you they are lifestyle golfers).

quote:

3. I believe that when the term "lifestyle" is used, many folks think of some outward visual manifestation. Maybe they expect folks to always be in fetish wear.

quote:

Nope, I'm not buying this one except in some very limited cases... perhaps people brand new into exploring "the scene".

Then how else do you explain the many that eschew the term "lifestyle" because they are "simply living their life"? Obviously, they have the impression that there's something more to it.

Well, I'm one of those. In my case it has nothing to do with insufficient leatherwear. The "more to it" that I don't identify with is having a kink-based relationship. If I did want such a relationship, I'd be much more inclined to self-identify with BDSM or "the lifestyle". Honestly, most people in my experience are not so shallow as to think that clothing choices significantly define a person.

quote:

For me, at least, the important things have not changed in my life since I collared my wife. I am still in love with and living with the woman who is central to my life and happiness. That's why it's hard to get behind our D/s as any sort of lifestyle thing.

quote:

Conversely, I might observe that as evidence that a power exchange relationship (which you were engaged in prior to your involvement in or knowledge of BDSM) was your existing lifestyle. BDSM didn't "make" you into anything you were not. On the other hand, I'm not here to define you or anyone else and hope you recognize this as a simple intellectual pursuit.

*laughs* No worries John. I'm easily definable... I'm the vaguely confused one. In the sense that you are saying "power exchange relationship", you are right but it's also specious. EVERY relationship is a power exchange relationship. I have yet to see two people who are exactly equally dominant in all aspects and times of their life. While it is true that I have always been dominant and she has always been submissive, those concepts and traits have very clearly been distilled and crystallized with the advent of the collar. Things are most definitely not the same or even remotely the same on that level. What BDSM didn't do is change the most important fact in my life... I wake up and go to sleep every night with Carol, my wife. It changed the window dressing in my marriage in delightful ways, but it didn't change the marriage or my lifestyle as a whole. It's just not that important to me or her.

quote:

Use whatever terms appeal to you... it doesn't change who and what you are one iota. :)

Heh, maybe my kink is being vanilla? Or maybe it's being perverse and going to someplace like collarme and declaring my vanila-ness *laughs*. Probably some of both.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 25

RE: Lifestyle versus Way of Life - 10/7/2008 8:29:51 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

when folks talk of a "lifestyle", this slave assumes they are omitting the word "alternative". it could be a vegan or pagan or Quaker or poly or Gorean or an M/s relationship they are referencing, the common thread being that the way they go about their life is an alternative way of life than what is prevalent, typical and/or acceptable in our society.

to this slave, the terms "vanilla" and "alternative" with regards to lifestyle merely distinguishes between different versions of how folks go about their lives, with "vanilla" being the term used to describe the common and accepted way.

for example, this slave has always had an alternative lifestyle relationship with Master. we sought out partners for fun and frolick from a BDSM personals site, not potential spouses from eHarmony or match.com. our interactions, from the beginning, have been of a D/s and then M/s structure...it is what feels natural, most comfortable and mutually fulfilling. we got married (a vanilla institution and socially accepted relationship structure) after we had established a solid relationship as Master/slave. so we have, from time to time, over the course of our relationship, incorporated some vanilla into our alternative way of life.

some folks do it the other way around. they get married first, establish their vanilla relationship and then incorporate an alternative lifestyle, such as poly or M/s into their otherwise vanilla way of life.

this slave doesn't see either as a One-True-Way for all...neither being better nor worse nor special than any other---merely different individual choices based on what is important to the parties involved as far as how they want to live a fulfilling life.

(in reply to DavanKael)

Post #: 26

RE: Lifestyle versus Way of Life - 10/7/2008 8:57:29 AM

azropedntied

Posts: 1829
Joined: 7/25/2005
From: Phx AZ
Status: offline

As i watch the television last night , the term " Lifestyle" came up more times than i could count from shows to ads . One ad even said This is the Suv for your busy,active lifestyle .It cought my attention quick and i thought Wow there is not one bondage attachment point , the thing does not turn into a rolling dungeon , it does not even talk all Toppy to me .Guess i shall stick with my Jeep at least it has roll bars .
Interesting that again there was a reporter on CNN doing a story and quotes on gay marriage was "thats the lifestyle choice they are making , and they want equal rights " .Every Gay person i ever spoke to or known , not one has ever said yeah this is all a thing i pick to do and i can switch to the other sex anytime ..

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 27

RE: Lifestyle versus Way of Life - 10/7/2008 9:16:43 AM

MsAuthoritarian

Posts: 51
Joined: 9/14/2008
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The term, "The Lifestyle", was once used specifically and exclusively within the Swinger sub-culture. These days it appears to have replaced another relatively recently coined umbrella term; BDSM. I think the creation of umbrella terms may be to help people feel a sense of belonging as if we are all the same rather than the reality that we are all wonderfully different or perhaps it was sheer laziness that caused the new terms to be coined. It is afterall much easier to use one term that is suppose to encompass a vast range of activities and styles of relationships rather than be specific. Who knows, but what I do know is the the useage of the term is up to each person to decide.

Good luck trying to figure it out lol

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 28

RE: Lifestyle versus Way of Life - 10/7/2008 10:57:04 AM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline

quote:

when folks talk of a "lifestyle", this slave assumes they are omitting the word "alternative". it could be a vegan or pagan or Quaker or poly or Gorean or an M/s relationship they are referencing, the common thread being that the way they go about their life is an alternative way of life than what is prevalent, typical and/or acceptable in our society.

Yeah, I tend to think of 'lifestyle' this way too. 'Alternative lifestyle' means something only in contrast to the 'mainstream' and is similar to 'counter cultural' or 'counter hegemonic.' There's some degree of self-consciousness involved in choosing an alternative lifestyle in so far as a person thoughtfully goes about developing living practices that are different from the mainstream which, for whatever reason, don't work for them. Its a non specific term and can be used in the plaural--various alternative lifestyles can peacefully co-exist in the same time-space. I take it to be a phrase that emerged in the wake of the cultural revolutions/rebellions of the 1960's and 70's and I've seen it used mostly among lefty liberal folk. I've always identified with a variety of alternative lifestyles though I've been most consistent over the course of my adult life when it comes to environmentally aware frugal living and sustainability (life simply so that others may simply live). Kink oriented Bd/sm doesn't provide much substance when it comes to life practices, and D/s only goes a little further in that direction. Neither provides much of an alternative, in my mind. Lifestyle and 'way of life' are pretty much the same to me.

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 29

RE: Lifestyle versus Way of Life - 10/7/2008 11:02:05 AM

masterforRT

Posts: 176
Joined: 5/16/2008
Status: offline

Though some people practice Gor as a way of life (and actually live in camps) , I believe that for the vast majority of us, BDSM is a part of our life, not our lifestyle.
To me, BDSM is a way of creative expression, much like painting or music is for others. In my profile, I even refer to a sub as a kind of canvas and BDSM as my art. It's a kind of hobby.
Finally, I believe that if I made my living from BDSM, I would not enjoy it as much as I do.

< Message edited by masterforRT -- 10/7/2008 11:03:12 AM >

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 30

RE: Lifestyle versus Way of Life - 10/7/2008 11:19:43 AM

MrMarkito

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/4/2005
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Although I could argue that only the denotations of these words are important, I believe how one reacts to a word is more important. My connotation comes from "style" vs. "way". I think of style as something shown and a way more related to a path followed. Clearly, either one could be obvious yet I suspect for most of us, lifestyle is something seen while a way of life is something much more internal--probably the way our brains are wired.

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 31

RE: Lifestyle versus Way of Life - 10/7/2008 11:29:02 AM

KatyLied

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Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

4. It's interesting to note that some people seem to feel the need to make a big deal out of the fact that their "lifestyle" is not vanilla, and others do not. I often wonder if this is evidence of a fetish.

You may be on to something with this. At one point I received a pm from a guy talking about his "beloved lifestyle". My reaction was "huh?" and a quick ignore.

I do not live a lifestyle. I have a life. It is busy and involves many things. WIITWD is one part of it, and not always the most pressing thing going on in it and <gasp> not always the most important.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 32

RE: Lifestyle versus Way of Life - 10/7/2008 11:34:44 AM

Aileen1968

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From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied
I do not live a lifestyle. I have a life. It is busy and involves many things. WIITWD is one part of it, and not always the most pressing thing going on in it and <gasp> not always the most important.

I agree with this. I don't go around shouting to the world how kinky I am. In fact, this is the only place I ever discuss bdsm. It's all a part of my personality and my world, but it doesn't have to be how I'm categorized.

_____________________________

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 33

RE: Lifestyle versus Way of Life - 10/7/2008 11:58:51 AM

azropedntied

Posts: 1829
Joined: 7/25/2005
From: Phx AZ
Status: offline

can i please get a definition of this " WIITWD " .. t/y

(in reply to Aileen1968)

Post #: 34

RE: Lifestyle versus Way of Life - 10/7/2008 12:00:10 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

Whatever It Is That We Do - a way to avoid the snares and traps of sub/slave/master/dominant/top/bottom.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to azropedntied)

Post #: 35

RE: Lifestyle versus Way of Life - 10/7/2008 12:04:26 PM

azropedntied

Posts: 1829
Joined: 7/25/2005
From: Phx AZ
Status: offline

Thanks Leadership
I dig that ..

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Whatever It Is That We Do - a way to avoid the snares and traps of sub/slave/master/dominant/top/bottom.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 36

RE: Lifestyle versus Way of Life - 10/7/2008 12:16:23 PM

RedMagic1

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Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

I was part of a FetLife discussion about WIITWD versus BDSM. I much prefer WIITWD, because it means that "we" are defining what we do, as opposed to the label BDSM -- or, worse, "S and M" -- that a prurient public might want to define me with. It also avoids the whole issue of, "Well, what the hell does vanilla mean anyway?" I would rather be defined by my own sexual actions, instead of being defined in terms of the sex acts of others.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to azropedntied)

Post #: 37

RE: Lifestyle versus Way of Life - 10/7/2008 12:43:25 PM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Whatever It Is That We Do - a way to avoid the snares and traps of sub/slave/master/dominant/top/bottom.

What snares and traps? I've never had a problem with any of those words.

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
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(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 38

RE: Lifestyle versus Way of Life - 10/7/2008 12:46:40 PM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

I was part of a FetLife discussion about WIITWD versus BDSM. I much prefer WIITWD, because it means that "we" are defining what we do, as opposed to the label BDSM -- or, worse, "S and M" -- that a prurient public might want to define me with. It also avoids the whole issue of, "Well, what the hell does vanilla mean anyway?" I would rather be defined by my own sexual actions, instead of being defined in terms of the sex acts of others.

How would one term versus another stop or hinder a person from anything. We limit ourselves..sometimes in a good way and others in a bad. Even those that place themselves in those neat little boxes can feel freedom from that. The kind that's just as good as any other.

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 39

RE: Lifestyle versus Way of Life - 10/7/2008 12:55:09 PM

littlesarbonn

Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline

I am incapable of not incorporating bdsm into my lifestyle because my basic makeup involves a submissive processing towards women. When I'm not involved in actual bdsm activity, you can find me helping out women in proximity to my being, even if there's no D/s involved. I don't ask for reciprocation, quite often because I'm not even sure they'd understand, but it gives me a sense of accomplishment in that I can help out so many without having to make it some sort of titillation type of thing.

_____________________________

<---- FYI, this picture looks JUST like me

http://www.littlesarbonn.com/Stickman/Stickman.htm
The Adventures of Stickman and the Unemployed Lego Spaceman

(in reply to DavanKael)

Post #: 40

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