Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (Full Version)

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rosanegra -> Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/2/2008 5:09:33 PM)

I am wondering if anyone knows if mormonism and kink are mutually exclusive. And I am not talking about polygamy, or any such thing like it.. by now, the LDS church has long since made it clear that polygamy is no longer a part of their belief. I know why it was, and I know why it no longer is, so I don't even want that to be a part of this discussion.

My question is, is it possible for my husband and I to have a D/s relationship involving healthy doses of bondage, discipline, and S&m (to a moderate extent) and still be members in good standing in the LDS church.

Don't read too much into it.. I am just trying to find some answers, and make a little bit of sense of some things that have happened recently in my life.




RealSub58 -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/2/2008 5:15:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rosanegra
My question is, is it possible for my husband and I to have a D/s relationship involving healthy doses of bondage, discipline, and S&m (to a moderate extent) and still be members in good standing in the LDS church.



Ask your church or read the forum D/s and religion.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2152716/tm.htm




windchymes -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/2/2008 5:20:51 PM)

I think "don't ask, don't tell" might apply here :)  I'm not a Mormon, but I "investigated" the church for about 6 months a few years back.  I know they believe masturbation is bad both physically and morally, and sex before and outside of marriage is strictly forbidden.  But, between two married individuals, I don't know if they have "rules" about what kind of sexual relationships you're allowed to have if both of you are consenting and happy.  I don't think they need to know details about your kink in your own home, anyway.  

My personal belief is that we won't be judged for our sins while here on earth.....even if you don't make it to the highest level of heaven, it's still heaven [;)]




MasterFireMaam -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/2/2008 5:22:28 PM)

Male Dom/fem sub monogamous relationships go hand in hand with just about all the patriarchal religions I know. There are some that feel your skin shouldn't be pierced, but bondage and whatnot I think passes muster. Also, many of these religions feel that what goes on in the marriage bed is sacred.

Fem Dom, poly and LGBTQ relationships are a lot harder to justify with patriarchal religions. I have observed a much higher ratio of Pagans, Wiccans, Shamans (Celtic, Germanic and First Peoples), Taoists and Buddhist is this sector. Oh, and don't forget the New Age Metaphysicists like me.

Master Fire




rosanegra -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/2/2008 5:24:24 PM)

Ask my church about something I consider to be highly personal regarding my sex life and my marriage? To ask other kinky people is one thing. To ask someone who may be predisposed to judge me for even asking the question, regardless of what I do with the answer? I think not.

Frankly, I am looking for answers that go deeper than what the church has to say.. I am looking for answers regarding the scriptures, and how to extrapolate whether or not it is acceptable for my husband and I to have that relationship and still be able to, in good conscience, and in good faith, enter the temple. I do not like my religion spoon-fed down my throat from someone who doesn't know what is in my heart. It is a personal thing, whether or not I feel right continuing to live this lifestyle, and whether or not I feel God has given me his blessing.

Hence, I am looking for answers from other kinky people who may have figured them out for themselves as well.. Why are these forums not here if not to help us find guidance and support from others?




NihilusZero -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/2/2008 5:41:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rosanegra

I am looking for answers regarding the scriptures, and how to extrapolate whether or not it is acceptable for my husband and I to have that relationship and still be able to, in good conscience, and in good faith, enter the temple. I do not like my religion spoon-fed down my throat from someone who doesn't know what is in my heart. It is a personal thing, whether or not I feel right continuing to live this lifestyle, and whether or not I feel God has given me his blessing.

Well, then you're in luck...and consequently I'm confused.

You're in luck because you get to (as a historical human right) extrapolate any interpretation you'd like from scriptures. Find the ones that chime along with what you want and be rid of the guilt trip.

I'm confused because, if this is a "personal thing" I'm not sure why you're even asking for anyone else's point of view in the first place...unless you were just looking for cyber comfort and justification.




ArizonaProDomme -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/2/2008 5:44:29 PM)

I dont think anyone was trying to deflect not helping you by saying ask  your church but you just said you are looking for scripture based information which is more likely to be able to come from someone in your church. I understand what you mean about not wanting to ask for fear of being judge but you know you can always do the my friend thing...and you dont have to come right out and say xyz is this bad you could ask questions about whether or not there was specific doctrine or scripture that refers to how your higher power and your religion belive these acts should take place and if there are specific acts that are not condoned or in violation of entry into the temple. I think you are wanting feed back on how people how found solace within their lifestyles and religions or sprirituality but none of that will lend specifically what your religion would think about it. or as I said do the My friend thing..Ive got this friend who is non LDS and she and her friend do this and Im just wondering what are the rules per se for temple entry and these type of things....




MasterFireMaam -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/2/2008 5:46:14 PM)

Technically Mormon:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ChristianDs/

Most Christian Bibles have a concordance (super-duper index) in the back that helps find topics and phrases. Doesn't the Book of Mormon as well?

Master Fire




opposingtwilight -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/2/2008 5:46:37 PM)

I do not blame you for not wanting to ask your church directly. I cannot imagine approaching any spiritual leader and asking if such and such is ok for my sex life, nor do I really think your spiritual leaders need to know about what you and your husband plan to be doing in the bedroom anyway.

I know it is going to sound trite but if you are wondering what God thinks of what you want to be doing, why are you asking us? Ask Him.




NihilusZero -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/2/2008 5:51:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight

I cannot imagine approaching any spiritual leader and asking if such and such is ok for my sex life...

I find this odd considering that these people are considered "leaders" precisely because they are presumed to have a greater attunement and knowledge of the religion (and, consequently, its god). It would seem to me that they should know the answers better than most...and that people afraid to approach them are really only looking for moral loopholes in their theistic practices so as to avoid internal guilt trips.




LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/2/2008 5:52:50 PM)

just be you  that is all that is asked of anyone  yep




giveeverything -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/2/2008 5:54:09 PM)

Okay, how can I resist.  I live here in SLC (city of salt y'all) and I come from a long line of mormons (though not practicing myself).  I think you'll find that the Mormon church has become increasingly sex-positive - within the confines of marriage.  Things that used to be discouraged, like oral sex (even within marriage), is now acceptable.  In fact, it seems like the heirarchy is encouraging people to have satisfying sex lives (within marriage, of course).  So, technically, I think anything within marriage is a go.  Have fun and if you want to discuss it more you're welcome to email me (though, I'm not so hip on the religion, or most religions, but I do know quite a bit about Mormons).




JewAndCelt -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/2/2008 6:10:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rosanegra

Ask my church about something I consider to be highly personal regarding my sex life and my marriage? To ask other kinky people is one thing. To ask someone who may be predisposed to judge me for even asking the question, regardless of what I do with the answer? I think not.


Hence, I am looking for answers from other kinky people who may have figured them out for themselves as well.. Why are these forums not here if not to help us find guidance and support from others?



I understand why you would not want to out yourself to your church family. But I have found pasters to be pretty non judgmental to their flock. Maybe call a meeting with him. Of course I understand why you would be reluctant to do so.

My husband and I are Christian. His family at one time was Jewish and he still holds the culture close to his heart.

If you want scripture try the song of solomon. It speaks about a love between a man and a women that at times can be all consuming. This is what your love for your husband is correct? Also a wife should be submissive to her husband and he is to love her as Christ loved the church. If you look at it this way you can see where a submissive wife or even a submissive husband would be okay. The truth in the scripture is to love one another.

It also says to not hold your body from him and he should not hold it from you. Sex in the bible has never been just for having babies. It is a necassary thing in a marriage to keep bonds strong and intimacy alive.

For myself - I don't think what my husband and I do is wrong. We do not involve anyone else or break biblical laws in doing what we do. we love each other. Do any of my christian friends know about it? A few and they were non judgemental.

I do not place him above God. He is my husband and I am submissive to him because he is submissive to God first. I trust in him because he trusts God.

And to quote that wonderful BDSM love story the secretary
"Who says love has to be warm and gentle"

I hope I have helped you a little. I struggled with the same issues as you when I first started on this journey. Remember God loves you he made you and he knows you. Nothing you do will shock him.

_her




opposingtwilight -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/2/2008 6:25:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight

I cannot imagine approaching any spiritual leader and asking if such and such is ok for my sex life...

I find this odd considering that these people are considered "leaders" precisely because they are presumed to have a greater attunement and knowledge of the religion (and, consequently, its god). It would seem to me that they should know the answers better than most...and that people afraid to approach them are really only looking for moral loopholes in their theistic practices so as to avoid internal guilt trips.


Interesting point of view. :)




Rednekcol -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/2/2008 6:32:34 PM)

As a precursor to my response, I will qualify it with the following disclaimer: I am practicing LDS and have a fair bit of experience with the policies of the church. I have also undertaken the task of finding out whether or not it is in line with our faith to participate in these relationships. That said, I have no real authority to make any claims for the church whatsoever, so please understand that this is my own opinion and understanding.

There have been many practices that have been discouraged by church leaders because of the dynamic they might bring into a relationship. Specifically, while the church promotes what would undoubtedly be seen as a patriarchal family structure, we have a firm believe in the equal partnership of men and women in marriage. When the church made statements about acts like oral sex, it made them in the context that acts in the marriage should not objectify either person, but should strengthen the mutual respect a husband and wife had for one another. Given the change in attitudes in society about such acts, it is not surprising to me that oral sex is no longer used as an icon of that sort of action, as it no longer is viewed (generally speaking) as objectifying.

I believe that this principle should be extended to any BDSM relationship a mormon would consider having. My feeling is that there is both great possibility for strengthening a relationship and for degradation. In such pursuits, the former should be sought, and the latter avoided. While different roles are engaged, even permanently in some cases, neither partner should be degraded or lifted up over the other in their eyes. While it may be difficult for outsiders to understand how this is possible, I believe that this will make sense to most people who have explored this type of relationship. The difference is very clear in my own mind.

I have often thought of writing an article on how a D/s relationship fits together with scriptural teaching, but I do not intend to do that here. If I ever do, perhaps I will post a link here. For now, I will simply state that there are several patterns in the scripture, both the Bible, and in the Book of Mormon and other modern revelation, which include a very set difference in gender roles. Another theme familiar to most mormons is embedded in the phrase "opposition in all things". It is very clearly discussed how opposition enhances experience, a fact which is never clearer than in many BDSM scenes.

All in all, I do not know what your specific kink is, nor what attracts you. My maxim is that if you have cultivated a righteous life enough that you can recognize the Holy Ghost, it is wise to remember that "the Holy Ghost shall tell you all things what you should do". After baptism, we are given the gift of the Holy Ghost to guide us, and if we listen, we won't err. In the end, be open to His guidance as you explore, and don't rationalize anything, and I think you can enjoy much of this lifestyle with certain assurance that you are not violating any rules or principles.




knees2you -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/2/2008 9:59:02 PM)

Let me see[sm=duck.gif]
 
John Smith had a vision that Jesus walked among
people here in the United States[sm=danger.gif]
 
I had a Vision 2 days ago that I was told by the Almighty that I should gather as many people as possible,
take them up on Mt. Charleston and wait till we are all beemed up.[sm=beatdeadhorse.gif]
 
You gotta love visions[8|]
 
Seriously though.
 
Always, knees[sm=cactus.gif]




christine1 -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/2/2008 10:00:32 PM)

OP, instead of opening this up for a big mormon bashing fest, why don't you just ask your bishop?




VivaciousSub -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/2/2008 10:03:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: christine1

OP, instead of opening this up for a big mormon bashing fest, why don't you just ask your bishop?


You know, it's really sad that this already happened. How that furthers the conversation in any meaningful manner, I don't know. It's totally irrelevant and disrespectful to the OP.

She came here with an honest concern and deserves a thoughtful answer.




GreedyTop -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/2/2008 10:28:28 PM)

*applauds Rednekcol*  




newone11 -> RE: Is it possible to be a good Mormon and be kinky? (10/2/2008 10:36:50 PM)

http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,161-1-11-1,FF.html
www.naughtymormon.com
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/love.shtml

I'm a Jack Morman so take what I say for what it's worth.  That said...

I dont see how the scriptures would prevent you from practicing BDSM so long as it's when the bounds of marriage and consentual.  There is some discussion of degrading the partner in the first link.  However if you or your husband do not find it so then I wouldn't think it's in conflict with scripture.  Maybe the attached links will help. 

Good luck in your search for an answer.

newone




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