RE: McCain blames Obama

RE: McCain blames Obama (Full Version)

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SilverMark -> RE: McCain blames Obama (9/29/2008 2:02:53 PM)
If there is a collapse...and you work for a business that uses credit to supplement their cash flow...you might just have your own collapse. If you become one of the millions of those who's houses are foreclosed upon due to a lack of employment you might suffer your own collapse. If you turn 65 and your 401k is broke you might suffer your own collapse on and on and on. Could there not be a better way to re-work the system than for "We the people" to suffer through a collapse? I am not so sure I have ever heard anyone state declaratively that they wish to see a collapse of our economy and it sparked my questions and thoughts. I so hope you are totally incorrect and am glad that for the most part no one sees it a you do. You indeed have a unique and unorthodox view point.

kittinSol -> RE: McCain blames Obama (9/29/2008 2:06:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TabrisMaceth I don't know about the rest of you, but I trust McCain completely on this! After all, he was a POW. It's in the Jeneva Convension that bad and/or incompitent people cannot be POWs. Also, Obama's an elitist and an socialist. I don't know what those words mean, which makes them bad! A leader shouldn't be elite or social! They should be know how to fish and be a maverick, because I think that was the title of a western and it would be cool to have a cowboy for president! We've already gone down that route [sm=biggrin.gif].

chickpea -> RE: McCain blames Obama (9/29/2008 2:14:14 PM)
I'm not into numbers and politics of how people perceive you by the way you vote..... But.... (1) Due to the public OUTRAGE and OUTCRY, they changed the original proposal from something that would not benefit the public and rewards CEOs for being stupid INTO something that gives something back to the little guy American taxpayers who are paying taxes to support this bailout and makes CEOs just a little bit more accountable for what went on. This is a step in the right direction, however imperfect. Hoorah! (2) McCain has shown his childish behavior once again...eye roll He whines that he must suspend his campaign, and then he doesn't want to say ANYTHING about what he's going to do. McCain first, Country Last - the style of running the government that suits him best...as demonstrated over and over and over and over.... let's get this excercise in humiliation in front of the entire World over with come November 4th. I will be packing my bags outta this country if that nitwit with his Brittany Spears meets Crossfire Palin in office, before the country sinks into the Atlantic and Pacific Ocean.

celticlord2112 -> RE: McCain blames Obama (9/29/2008 2:14:57 PM)
quote: CL did you see the count.Republicans killed this bill,60% of Democrats voted yay.....192 Republicans voted nay...and you paint this as a falure of the Democrats. I do nothing of the kind. There is no way for you or I to know right now if this bailout bill was a good idea or a government boondoggle. However, if Barney Frank and Nancy Pelosi were working to put this bailout bill together, and to secure support for it, 60% support from their own party is not a riveting display of political leadership. If they didn't have the votes, why call the floor vote? And if they knew they weren't going to get the votes, why bother going through a sham exercise? Twelve votes. In the end, Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank were unable to conjure up twelve Democratic votes.

slvemike4u -> RE: McCain blames Obama (9/29/2008 2:23:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: CL did you see the count.Republicans killed this bill,60% of Democrats voted yay.....192 Republicans voted nay...and you paint this as a falure of the Democrats. I do nothing of the kind. There is no way for you or I to know right now if this bailout bill was a good idea or a government boondoggle. However, if Barney Frank and Nancy Pelosi were working to put this bailout bill together, and to secure support for it, 60% support from their own party is not a riveting display of political leadership. If they didn't have the votes, why call the floor vote? And if they knew they weren't going to get the votes, why bother going through a sham exercise? Twelve votes. In the end, Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank were unable to conjure up twelve Democratic votes. No CL, you have it ass backwards.It was 12 Republican votes that killed this.The deal all along was each party would deliver 50% support for a bill that was going to have populist blowback....The Democrats delivered 60%...the republicans something closer to 35%...for a bill ,that in its original form was proposed by a Republican President and his Secretary of the Treasury. Again it would seem to be your belief that the Democrats were responsible for jumping on this political landmine alone...Where was the Republican willingness to rise above political concerns and do that which(according to them) is necessary....spinning this to a failure of Democratic leadership is laughable on its face...unfortunately par for the course where your post's are concerned.

celticlord2112 -> RE: McCain blames Obama (9/29/2008 2:28:59 PM)
quote: Again it would seem to be your belief that the Democrats were responsible for jumping on this political landmine alone...Where was the Republican willingness to rise above political concerns and do that which(according to them) is necessary....spinning this to a failure of Democratic leadership is laughable on its face...unfortunately par for the course where your post's are concerned. Guess again. I am not blaming the Democrats or the Republicans en bloc. I am pointing out that Barney Frank, as Finance Committee Chairman, and Nancy Pelosi, as Speaker of the House, are possessed of the organizational influence within the House to secure votes in favor of this bill's passage. It is reasonable they would have greater influence among Democrats than Republicans, but the question remains: Why did Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank bring this bill to a floor vote without the votes lined up to secure its passage (from either side of the aisle). President Bush does not bring bills to a floor vote in the House, nor does Senator McCain. Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank are the politicians with that ability. And the question remains: Did they want this bill passed?

NeedToUseYou -> RE: McCain blames Obama (9/29/2008 2:32:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SilverMark If there is a collapse...and you work for a business that uses credit to supplement their cash flow...you might just have your own collapse. If you become one of the millions of those who's houses are foreclosed upon due to a lack of employment you might suffer your own collapse. If you turn 65 and your 401k is broke you might suffer your own collapse on and on and on. Could there not be a better way to re-work the system than for "We the people" to suffer through a collapse? I am not so sure I have ever heard anyone state declaratively that they wish to see a collapse of our economy and it sparked my questions and thoughts. I so hope you are totally incorrect and am glad that for the most part no one sees it a you do. You indeed have a unique and unorthodox view point. I would prefer an alternative method, but it doesn't seem like it will happen, if it can happen with a partial collapse, or no collapse, I'd go for it. But It seems the only thing that gets people moving is big shit falling all around them. It's not what I'd like, it's the way people are wired. Until a few weeks ago, so few were interested at all in this economy stuff, now all of a sudden half the people that come in end up talking about it, but they just want it to stabilize, and don't understand the structure at all. I'm not an expert but I do try to keep up on what's going on, and why. LOL. It can't stabilize for long, because it is designed for booms and busts, that's my point, it is inheritantly defective if the purpose is to facilitate a fair stable economy. Or one that is not prone to criticial failure, every decade or so, without fresh newly debt on the citizens backs, that doesn't help your average citizen it just makes it more difficult. Pretty much, it looks to me like a situation of Poison now in one gulp, or infinite smaller dosages forever. I'd rather fix it, than patch it. The worst thing is to send this system back into the same mode it was in. I know they say they won't let that happen, they say that every time and still it happens.

bipolarber -> RE: McCain blames Obama (9/29/2008 2:36:06 PM)
McCain fiddles while US economy burns. (Video at 10:00) So, how many points down did the Dow plunge today? Anyone want to take a bet on how many major banks will be closing up shop, or bought out by Tuesday morning? How about overseas?

slvemike4u -> RE: McCain blames Obama (9/29/2008 2:39:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: Again it would seem to be your belief that the Democrats were responsible for jumping on this political landmine alone...Where was the Republican willingness to rise above political concerns and do that which(according to them) is necessary....spinning this to a failure of Democratic leadership is laughable on its face...unfortunately par for the course where your post's are concerned. Guess again. I am not blaming the Democrats or the Republicans en bloc. I am pointing out that Barney Frank, as Finance Committee Chairman, and Nancy Pelosi, as Speaker of the House, are possessed of the organizational influence within the House to secure votes in favor of this bill's passage. It is reasonable they would have greater influence among Democrats than Republicans, but the question remains: Why did Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank bring this bill to a floor vote without the votes lined up to secure its passage (from either side of the aisle). President Bush does not bring bills to a floor vote in the House, nor does Senator McCain. Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank are the politicians with that ability. And the question remains: Did they want this bill passed? It is called political reality CL,the Democrats were not about to let this bailout assume the look of a Democratic bill.They demanded the Republicans take as much political risk as they would.Hence the 50% gentlemans agreement. Anyone voting for this bill would face resistance at home based on their vote.And you are savvy enough to know that....Newsflash so are Democratic representatives,no CL despite what you say and what McCain is now spinning in front of cameras this was a failure of Bush's Presidency and Republicans jumping ship from a lame duck President....but feel free to keep spinning ,you are at least amusing.

vixxy -> RE: McCain blames Obama (9/29/2008 2:41:47 PM)
Greetings, If large corporations world wide are unable to get loans, what ends up happening to companies when they need to pay employees and there is no monies being loaned? Scary thing, when a house of cards fall, everything goes with it . I am Canadian and its blown our market out, the effect is felt world wide.

Musicmystery -> RE: McCain blames Obama (9/29/2008 3:02:31 PM)
quote: If they did, why did 40 percent of the Democrats vote against the bill? Probably same reason over 2/3 of Republicans did. Bush and the Pub leaders can't deliver the votes of their OWN party on this turkey. Certainly the American people overwhelmingly oppose it. Doesn't Congress work for us? Something will be done on this---just not Bush's grab for still more executive control under yet another "crisis."

slvemike4u -> RE: McCain blames Obama (9/29/2008 3:06:38 PM)
Yep it is called lack of political courage,they want the bill everyone seems to agree(except the American public)that the rescue is necessary,but no one wants to go home and explain a yes vote to their constituants. Guess Democrats are braver than Republicans...politically speaking that is.

Musicmystery -> RE: McCain blames Obama (9/29/2008 3:11:24 PM)
The Pubs wanted to pass this and blame the Dems for it on election day, knowing how unpopular it was. The Republicans didn't even TRY to muster votes, telling members "just vote your conscience."

celticlord2112 -> RE: McCain blames Obama (9/29/2008 5:21:29 PM)
Mike, I am not talking about the Democrats or the Republicans. My question is focused on two and only two individuals: Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank. Political affiliation is irrelevant; they are the ones who brought this bill to the floor without locking up sufficient votes from either party to pass it. Here's a hint: try answering the question referring solely to Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank. I don't give a damn about President Bush, Senator McCain, or any other participant in this Washington melodrama. My question is: Did Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank want this bill passed? I'll even simplify it for you: Do you believe Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank wanted this bill passed.

Musicmystery -> RE: McCain blames Obama (9/29/2008 5:27:31 PM)
celtic, this is ridiculous. Bush and House leadership and McCain not only couldn't, but didn't try to muster votes. Are you under the impression that Democrat leaders typically sway Pub votes? And if so, hard to explain partisanship. They'll all be back Thursday with discussions of a less insane bill.

slvemike4u -> RE: McCain blames Obama (9/29/2008 5:30:08 PM)
Well CL your question would have some intellectual honesty if Franks and Pelosi operated in a vacuum,but they don't so your question is irrelevant.One can not look at this without looking at the roles played by the others. So I invite you to reread the tread the answers,those taking into account reality are there,if you insist on one based solely on your limited parameters,you will have to supply it yourself.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: McCain blames Obama (9/29/2008 5:41:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Sen. McCain's campaign has put the onus of failure of the bailout bill squarely on the shoulders of Sen.Obama.They claim Obama simply phoned it in whilew McCain has demonstrated clear and effective leadership during the crisis....WTF...opinions please. mike... The democrats have a clear majority in the House and Obama is the leader of the democrat party. The democrats did not need ONE Republican to pass that particular legislation and yet it failed. So why couldn't the democrats rally their troops??? I for one am glad it failed.

Musicmystery -> RE: McCain blames Obama (9/29/2008 5:44:34 PM)
I'm glad it failed too, but the Dems mustered their troops FAR better than the Pubs----less than a third voted for it--and even then with only a twelve vote difference. We need a better bill, and hopefully Thursday we'll have better proposals.

slvemike4u -> RE: McCain blames Obama (9/29/2008 5:47:26 PM)
Re-do your math FDD the Democrats voted 140 yay and 66 nay.....the Republicans had 133 nay votes....now I'll leave it to you to tell us how many yay votes.....explain how the Democrats could have passed this or any other piece of leislation without ONE REPUBLCAN yay vote.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: McCain blames Obama (9/29/2008 5:48:37 PM)
The house "Pubs" thought it a bad bill and did their jobs far better than the dems raiiled by their party.

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