Taliban sue for peace? (Full Version)

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meatcleaver -> Taliban sue for peace? (9/28/2008 10:43:13 AM)

I've heard about this in the German, French and Dutch press, none are hard on facts but there are wide spread reports that something is going on.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/28/afghanistan.defence

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/28/afghanistan.terrorism

However, would McCain's foreign policy of telling the Taliban(and anyone else deemed an enemy) to fuck off we aren't talking to you on any level unless you totally and utterly surrender be the best policy if the Taliban are seeking a way to peace?



slaveboyforyou -> RE: Taliban sue for peace? (9/28/2008 10:55:04 AM)

The Taliban were offered peace in 2001.  All they had to do was hand over Osama Bin Laden.  The current government of Afghanistan has extended offers to Taliban fighters several times.  All they have to do is lay down their arms and go home. 



meatcleaver -> RE: Taliban sue for peace? (9/28/2008 11:04:31 AM)

Since most of the Taliban are Afghanistanis, they are at home already.

However, things aren't going that great for NATO either. All NATO is doing is retaking, retaking and retaking the same old land, failing to build any infrastructure to give the locals the feeling of progress and the locals are still relying on the poppy crop for its main source of income.



slaveboyforyou -> RE: Taliban sue for peace? (9/28/2008 11:21:30 AM)

quote:

Since most of the Taliban are Afghanistanis, they are at home already.


You know exactly what I meant.  Go home, as in return to their homes and live in peace.  The current, legitimate government has offered that to the fighters.  It's kind of difficult to build infrastructure and help the locals when the Taliban is attacking them constantly.  As much as you're trying to point the finger, NATO isn't disallowing Taliban fighters from calling a truce and laying down their weapons. 

What is the point of this?  I guess we should just pack up and leave there too.  We can do what we did after the Soviets left and just forget about Afghanistan.  It can go through another decade long civil war, and we can have another radical regime allowing terrorists to operate training camps in the country. 



NumberSix -> RE: Taliban sue for peace? (9/28/2008 11:28:17 AM)

They can operate fuckin massage parlors in their own country far as I give a fuck.  So long as you don't take it out of doors.  Do that and you'll be flying planeloads of rubber dogshit outta Hong Kong.

I can harldy see laying down my life for the Afghans if they ain't got enough sack for themownselves.

6



Bethnai -> RE: Taliban sue for peace? (9/28/2008 11:49:51 AM)

Negotiations with the Taliban would at best be a stale mate. Too, if the talks are extended to those that fought against the Russians then we are going backwards not forwards given the history.  This may be deemed acceptable to the powers that be just due to the Russian support in other regions. Which means that we would be exactly where we were 30 years ago. It would still be supporting Islamic fanatics and that has never really worked.



meatcleaver -> RE: Taliban sue for peace? (9/28/2008 12:28:19 PM)

Well the US and NATO is fighting the people the US used to support against the Soviets and this war has been going on for seven years which is two years less than when the Soviets decided it wasn't worth it anymore. NATO isn't succeeding anymore than the Soviets did, they too retook and retook the same old ground ad infinitum before they thought it wasn't worth it anymore. Since the Afghanistani central government and the rest of NATO think its a good idea to explore negotiations and if the new US administration like the old administration think total and utter capitulation is the only option for the Taliban, I'm all for leaving it to the Americans on their own to get the Taliban to that point. Somehow shades of Vietnam creep in at this point. As Ho Chi Min said, the Vietnamese will still be in Vietnam when the last American leaves because it is their country, so the Taliban will still be there when the last American leaves because it is their country. Sometimes discussions, even if only exploratory make sense rather than having absolute objectives that are unrealistic.



TheHeretic -> RE: Taliban sue for peace? (9/28/2008 12:48:18 PM)

       Interesting articles, MC, thanks for posting them.  And if the Taliban get sticky about coming to the table, the US could use a negotiating technique that has brought people back to the table before.

        Highly jingoistic video

      The requirements on my country to play nicely in Afghanistan are very different from the situation in Iraq.



slaveboyforyou -> RE: Taliban sue for peace? (9/28/2008 12:59:46 PM)

The Taliban really look like they're pushing for peace, don't they:

quote:


KANDAHAR, Afghanistan, Sept 28, 2008 (AFP) - Taliban gunmen shot dead the most high-profile female police officer in Afghanistan and wounded her teenaged son as she left home to go to work Sunday, officials and the militia said.
Attackers waiting outside the home of Malalai Kakar, head of the city of Kandahar's department of crimes against women, opened fire on her car as she left, Kandahar government spokesman Zalmay Ayoobi told AFP.  



Musicmystery -> RE: Taliban sue for peace? (9/28/2008 1:02:53 PM)

Hard to be for peace when you're fighting God's War....





meatcleaver -> RE: Taliban sue for peace? (9/28/2008 1:08:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

The Taliban really look like they're pushing for peace, don't they:

quote:


KANDAHAR, Afghanistan, Sept 28, 2008 (AFP) - Taliban gunmen shot dead the most high-profile female police officer in Afghanistan and wounded her teenaged son as she left home to go to work Sunday, officials and the militia said.
Attackers waiting outside the home of Malalai Kakar, head of the city of Kandahar's department of crimes against women, opened fire on her car as she left, Kandahar government spokesman Zalmay Ayoobi told AFP.  



It is a war, people kill until there is peace.



slaveboyforyou -> RE: Taliban sue for peace? (9/28/2008 1:20:58 PM)

The Taliban are criminals; they are not an army.  The current government has made offers of peace several times.  However the Taliban loonies want to return the entire country to a theocracy.  They targeted this woman because she is a woman.  The extremists will continue to murder people like this woman, or the two women they accused of prostitution and cowardly executed. 



TheHeretic -> RE: Taliban sue for peace? (9/28/2008 1:21:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

The Taliban really look like they're pushing for peace, don't they:

quote:


KANDAHAR, Afghanistan, Sept 28, 2008 (AFP) - Taliban gunmen shot dead the most high-profile female police officer in Afghanistan and wounded her teenaged son as she left home to go to work Sunday, officials and the militia said.
Attackers waiting outside the home of Malalai Kakar, head of the city of Kandahar's department of crimes against women, opened fire on her car as she left, Kandahar government spokesman Zalmay Ayoobi told AFP.  




       You negotiate from a position of strength, Slaveboy.  This is their idea of being strong.

       



Bethnai -> RE: Taliban sue for peace? (9/28/2008 3:38:47 PM)

The US gave the Soviet Union their very own Viet Nam in Afghanistan during the 1980's. This is the A,B,C's (before) of the Taliban and did so with the support of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan by way of Pakistan. They did this utilizing what is known as the Arc of Islam theory. It was not the Soviet Union that walked out on Afghanistan, it was the US. The Peshawar Seven (or eight-but, who's counting?) stopped receiving funding and weapons.

The US did not seem to have a problem with the Taliban.  In fact, thought it was necessary evil up against Iran. At least up until Iran decided to hook the US up with the Northern Alliance. 
Never mind the increased production of opium, that led to an increase of addicts in Pakistan and Europe. The US does not give a damn about that because it will wind up on your doorstep faster than it will on ours. 

The thing of it is, that repeating that same mistake will not change anything. Making a little deal with the Taliban now, will not solve anything. In fact, it leaves the door open for some jack off to come in screaming about how the world should save Afghanistan from atrocities later on down the line and bring "democracy."  Saudi Arabia has its own interests at stake, and I would take them seriously as soon as they willing allow those from Asir to hold "key" positions.

How do you know that the people want the Taliban? Maybe they want water, food, education and self government without Pakistan or Saudi Arabia or the US involved?
This is simple shit. Its how some groups/terrorists gain power. They supply what is necessary.  It is so simple that it is not like nobody knows it but us. Therefore, there is probably another agenda.

I know you don't like the US foreign policy. I do not either. I am a huge critic of our foreign policy. However, our track record of overthrowing governments and installing dictators is not the greatest. Maybe you have missed that. A repeat is not necessary. 





 



DDraigeuraid -> RE: Taliban sue for peace? (9/28/2008 8:45:24 PM)

There is no good ending for the US in Afganistan.  The Afganis beat Alexander the Great, beat the British at the height of their empire, the Russians and Soviets, when the Soviets were next door without the huge logistical tail that the US has, and were as ruthless as can be imagined.  Yes, the US supplied them with weapons, but those weapons are now being used against us.  I would not be a bit surprised if the Taliban sought peace.  They are not stupid.  Peace talks with the US worked for the North Vietnamese, then they took over the rest of the country.  The Taliban pretty much eradicated the opium crop when they were in power.  Yes, they were ruthless, but they brought Afganistan back from a nation of warring tribes to one that had some legitimacy.  Until 9-11.  Even then, the hijackers were mostly saudis, not Afgahanis, or Iraqis.  They provided a safe haven for the terrorists.  I fear this war will end up as bad as Vietnam.
Dragon



Bethnai -> RE: Taliban sue for peace? (9/28/2008 9:08:04 PM)

The production dropped because the US told them to drop it. Which technically reinforces that relationship. It dropped for a short period of time.



TheHeretic -> RE: Taliban sue for peace? (9/28/2008 9:41:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DDraigeuraid

There is no good ending for the US in Afganistan. 



           Agreed.  Our stategy in that mess should be completely overhauled, and it's a shame we can't simply leave, and pretend the place doesn't exist.  With the exception of enough Marines to properly secure an embassy and airport, we should get all the conventional boots off the ground, and give our full air support to the most brutal tribal leader we can make a deal with.  Armed drone diplomacy.

        Lots of ugly consequences to that.  Not our problem.



rexrgisformidoni -> RE: Taliban sue for peace? (9/28/2008 9:41:22 PM)

Many of the hard-core taliban fighters are in the Afghan-Pakistan border region.  The Pakistani army is supposed to be rooting them of of wazristan(spelling), but surprisingly its not working so hot. The region is basically an extension of Taliban held territory, and the Pakistani leadership has no real intent on rooting them out because the moment they do, Pakistan turns into a cauldron of sectarian violence. Phew. Oh, and a US helicopter was shot at by the Pakistani army last week. Nice allies. 



Hippiekinkster -> RE: Taliban sue for peace? (9/29/2008 12:37:37 AM)

Well, 7 years and 18 days and no bin Ladin. I thought that was one of the goals of going into Afghanistan, getting his murderous ass. Well, the C in C failed miserably on that (he fails at everything so no great surprise there). And the mission is now...what? I've lost the plot on all this. Why are we there? If it's to wipe out the Taliban, well, there are some other fundie headcases waiting in the wings to take their place. They probably will fool US "Intelligence" by not calling themselves Taliban. If it's to get the TAP (trans-Afghanistan Pipeline) back on track, but controlled by a consortium of US companies, and probably built by Bechtel, the Busheviks aren't doing so hot either.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHI203A.html
"Much to Bridas' dismay, Unocal went directly to regional leaders with its own proposal. Unocal formed its own competing US-led, Washington-sponsored consortium that included Saudi Arabia's Delta Oil, aligned with Saudi Prince Abdullah and King Fahd. Other partners included Russia's Gazprom and Turkmenistan's state-owned Turkmenrozgas." Due to the topography, and gas going from the Caspian area HAS to go through Afgh.
  OK, this is pretty far out for a "conspiracy" theory, but what if the Saudis financed bin Ladin (who is a Saudi) in Afghanistan, who then put together a "strike force" that was charged with finding some way to get the US into Afghanistan, paving the way for a Western consortium to move in and take over the pipeline project, using shell companies based in Qatar and Dubai? (think Halliburton) That's pretty tin-foil hat, IMO, but not impossible. We still haven't, after 7 years, heard a peep about who went short in a big way the days or weeks leading up to 9/11. I'd bet certain parties made a killing (no pun intended).

I have wondered a couple things. One, why did it take GWB so long to get mobilized and get people into Afgh? There should have been boots on the ground as soon as the source of the attack was ID'd. No later than Oktober 2001.  The whole military should have been mobilized and sent to Afgh.

And, two, why has there been little or no effort to interdict weapons? Seems to me if pacification is necessary to accomplish a strategic objective, it's helpful if people don't have guns to shoot at you with. Draft people if necessary; get some good Customs people over there doing inspections; task all our surveillance satellites to Afhg. Do whatever it takes. No "Ho Chi Minh Trails" from Pakistan or Iran or Turkmenistan.

There's a lot more to all this than just UBL. Bush let that slip when he said that he doesn't matter.



LadyEllen -> RE: Taliban sue for peace? (9/29/2008 2:30:27 AM)

To say that the Taliban are suing for peace makes it sound like they're losing. From the article and from all impressions I get its more a case of the Taliban asking "have you had enough yet?"

E



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