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BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE - 9/26/2008 7:21:05 AM   
Philippe11


Posts: 2
Joined: 3/8/2004
Status: offline 		Hello, all of you, unknown friends, delicious slaves, good masters and mistress. On CollarMe, I'm Philippe11, from France. I think you have to know what's happening in my country - and happening to ME. It is a crazy thing. France takes a very bad direction..... This paper have been published in "The New Yorker".

September 24, 2008

French Postcards

A blogger on Libération’s Web site, Agnès Viard, reports that, in June, in Cahors, in the southwest of France, the mail artist Philippe Pissier (pronounced piece-Y¥) was being subjected to criminal investigation for having mailed a postcard of a bare-breasted woman, a nipple pierced with a safety pin, to a German exhibit of erotic mail art that had invited him to participate. After the assistant prosecutor Isabelle Ardeef began the investigation, Pissier was informed that he risked three years in prison and a fine of 75,000 euros for the crime of “disturbing public order and mentally endangering children by means of a pornographic work.” The following month, his computer and many of his works were confiscated, but the artist has remained without official word since then. As Pissier remarked,
I am an adult, the mail sorters are adults, the mailman is an adult, and the addressee is an adult. I don’t see what the problem is.
The local press has weighed in, heaping scorn on Ardeef for the inquiry. Viard reminds readers that such paintings as “Gabrielle d’Estrées,” by an anonymous French artist of the sixteenth century, is on open display at the Louvre, including to minors. “Le ridicule ne tue pas” (“You can’t be killed by ridicule”), the French say; but officials there would do well to remember that, in 1966, Charles de Gaulle’s regime was shaken by its (ultimately unsuccessful) attempt to ban Jacques Rivette’s movie “La Religieuse,” a misstep that definitively revealed the aged President’s incommensurable distance from modern life.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/goingson/2008/09/french-postcard.html

We are creating a support committee.......

Your friend, in the bonds of love.

Philippe.

[Mod Note:  image and email address removed]


< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 9/26/2008 11:28:37 AM >
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RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE - 9/26/2008 1:30:32 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		I wish you the best of luck with all of that. 

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RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE - 9/26/2008 2:08:11 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Contente d'apprendre que c'est le bordel total absolument partout  .

PS: edited to remove edit.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 9/26/2008 2:11:07 PM >

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RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE - 9/26/2008 4:28:43 PM   
ludwig9


Posts: 19
Joined: 5/14/2005
Status: offline 		"mentally endangering children" with a pair of breasts?  remind me again what breasts are for?  is every breastfeeding mother going to be imprisoned?  Or was it the safety pin that did it?

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RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE - 9/26/2008 4:38:41 PM   
faerytattoodgirl


Posts: 5824
Status: offline 		it saddens me that im still a citizen of this country due to my father....

so..your not at war yet???


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RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE - 9/26/2008 8:41:24 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Couldn't he afford envelopes ?

Common sense people.

T

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RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE - 9/26/2008 8:47:49 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Actually, I think the bruhaha is more to the point of the art, than is the art itself. Artists have a duty to be a provacateur to societies' standards, and force it to look at "the way things are."

Brilliant move!

(Somehow, I doubt if anyone was traumatized by the breasts... as none were in this country by Janet Jackson's half time show, or by looking at the "Playboys" that they find in the bottom drawer of the nightstand in their parents bedroom. )

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RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE - 9/26/2008 9:52:10 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		           Unlike the posters from other places who spout endlessly about what's wrong with the USA, I'll start by saying I have no idea what passes for free speech and expression in France.  He's probably very lucky the model wasn't wearing a muslim style scarf, though.

         Given that he was essentially forcing every postal employee to view his idea of art, it does seem like an envelope would have been the more prudent choice.  Or is Europe so repressed that mailing a dirty postcard can be viewed as an act of 'life as art' protest?

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RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE - 9/27/2008 1:25:12 AM   
MadAxeman


Posts: 4171
Joined: 8/28/2008
From: UK
Status: offline 		Absolutely, incontrovertibly, one hundred per cent right Heretic.
You do have no idea.

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RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE - 9/27/2008 1:33:46 AM   
NorthernGent


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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Or is Europe so repressed.......?



Anyone mentioning sex in my company finds herself on the wrong end of being nailed to a cross.......then again, one man's repression is another man's adventure.

Rich, this is going to come as a surprise so brace yourself, pal............European nations do not share the common ground that you'll see in the United States......there is no European dream. I mean, the English and French spend most of our time avoiding one another. We think differently, we have different dreams and aspirations.......ascribing generalisations to Europe is akin to stating Canada and the US is one nation.

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RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE - 9/27/2008 2:40:11 AM   
MadAxeman


Posts: 4171
Joined: 8/28/2008
From: UK
Status: offline 		If there is one generalisation that applies to Europeans, it is that we may have adjacent neighbours we disagree with but tolerate and perhaps continue trading with. We are not so insular as to ignore what goes on around us, even if we discard adopting similar positions, methods, ideologies, culture. The variety is welcome, not seen as threatening.

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RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE - 9/27/2008 12:41:05 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Or is Europe so repressed.......?



Anyone mentioning sex in my company finds herself on the wrong end of being nailed to a cross.......then again, one man's repression is another man's adventure.

Rich, this is going to come as a surprise so brace yourself, pal............European nations do not share the common ground that you'll see in the United States......there is no European dream. I mean, the English and French spend most of our time avoiding one another. We think differently, we have different dreams and aspirations.......ascribing generalisations to Europe is akin to stating Canada and the US is one nation.



          Fair enough, North.  I'd have restricted the question to France, but the postcard was mailed to another country within the EU.   Despite what you might think of as our 'common ground' here, there is a wide variance from one state to another on obscenity standards, and the interstate issues would be where the problems came from if such a case made the news here.

         Educate the confuzzled American then.  Is FRANCE so repressed that mailing a dirty postcard is in itself a form of performance art?

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
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RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE - 9/27/2008 2:18:11 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Is FRANCE so repressed that mailing a dirty postcard is in itself a form of performance art?



The artist must be some kind of socialist or something: after all, there is a right-wing fascist in power in France at the moment .

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RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE - 9/27/2008 2:34:11 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Is FRANCE so repressed that mailing a dirty postcard is in itself a form of performance art?



The artist must be some kind of socialist or something: after all, there is a right-wing fascist in power in France at the moment .


          Unless you want to clarify, Kitten, I'm going to take that as a "Yes."

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE - 9/27/2008 2:41:08 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Yes, because France is SO obviously a hugely sexually repressed nation  .

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RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE - 9/27/2008 2:48:17 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Yes, because France is SO obviously a hugely sexually repressed nation  .



          Yeah.  That's kind of the reason for the question, Kitten.  Why then would mailing a postcard tamer than I can pick up at the sex shop in the very conservative city nearest me become some sort of big deal?

         

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE - 9/27/2008 2:57:38 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		You're trying to extrapolate a generality from an individual case - it should be quite obvious to you that you can't say an entire culture is sexually repressed because of an individual example like that one, especially not France, country of liberated sexual expression par excellence. I hadn't heard of this until this thread (being in blissfully isolated America, where world news are considered exotic, bordering on subversive) - but my suggestion that the artist may have done something to annoy the local judiciary isn't far reaching. It's exactly the sort of thing that would happen over there, especially at the moment, with a right-wing and fascistic government.



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RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE - 9/27/2008 3:27:33 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

You're trying to extrapolate a generality from an individual case - 



           No, Kitten.  I'm trying to enhance my understanding of another culture.  I don't have a clear picture of how things work in a country so many seem to think my country should emulate.  I do have little snapshots, that seem to be pieces of an ugly picture.  Closing topless beaches.  Prosecuting a celebrity for speaking her mind.  A criminal investigation of an artist for mailing a postcard.  Anecdotal stories that wearing a sleeveless blouse in the Paris airport seems to be an invitation for strange men to put their hands on women.

       Please, explain to me how these things fit into the big picture of a country I'm supposed to think is enlightened.  

        If you really want to discuss the elected leadership over there, I'm curious about something else.  You speak often of replacing a poorly run administration here, and the importance of change.  Why don't you apply that same standard to your view of the new administration there?  Aren't double digit unemployment numbers, and weeks of riots, signs that change was desperately needed there as well?

      I'm perfectly happy to just sit back and read, if anyone wants to try and deconfuzzle me on this.

         

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 9/27/2008 3:30:32 PM >

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE - 9/27/2008 4:25:38 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		You're beyond my line of duty,  Heretic: I'm not the French InTourist.

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RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE - 9/27/2008 4:45:16 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		         Well, at least one of the old stereotypes seems intact about the French... 

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 20
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