RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE

RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE (Full Version)

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slvemike4u -> RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE (9/27/2008 4:45:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadAxeman If there is one generalisation that applies to Europeans, it is that we may have adjacent neighbours we disagree with but tolerate and perhaps continue trading with. We are not so insular as to ignore what goes on around us, even if we discard adopting similar positions, methods, ideologies, culture. The variety is welcome, not seen as threatening. Forgive the hijack....but I was wondering, are all your closest neighbors, in fact Foreign Countrys......we seem to be having a glut of our closest neighbors being foreign countrys on this side of the world,and was wondering if you people are suffering the same fate....[8\|]

kittinSol -> RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE (9/27/2008 5:02:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Well, at least one of the old stereotypes seems intact about the French... [8\|] They have no qualms about telling dogs that they're barking up the wrong tree, and hypocrisy isn't their forte, that's for sure. Would you like me to go into details as to how you fit the stereotype of the arrogant American down to a 'T'? [8D] ?

slvemike4u -> RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE (9/27/2008 5:06:32 PM)
No sense insulting typical arrogant Americans Kittin....

kittinSol -> RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE (9/27/2008 5:14:31 PM)
There's something about xenophobic compliments that makes me want to retaliate with comebacks: silly, you're right. I know all too well of France's shortcomings, being an insider, so to speak... but I was never one for nationalistic trumpetting either :-) .

slvemike4u -> RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE (9/27/2008 5:17:38 PM)
Oh Kittin you mistake my intent,while insulting some of our fellow posters might gain you attention from the mods,it was not my intent to protest that...rather your lumping them with typical run of the mill arrogant Americans.... I thought that was uncalled for.[:D]

bipolarber -> RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE (9/27/2008 5:18:55 PM)
Arrogance... or just a hyper developed sense of nationalisim? "USA right or wrong!" is the basis of most of the US's bad rep. With every passing election, with the passage of every nasty ass peice of legislation against GLBT folk, the banning of books, the loss of civil liberties... I keep thinking about packing up my film skills and trying for New Zeland... trouble is, I don't think I could afford their fees. [>:]

kittinSol -> RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE (9/27/2008 5:28:47 PM)
The problem is when pride in one's country turns into the feeling that you're better than everybody else. People of all countries do this - and it's stupid. Of course not all Americans are arrogant: in fact, the great majority of those I've met have been quite the opposite. But the arrogant ones make a louder noise. It's the same everywhere, unfortunately.

TheHeretic -> RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE (9/27/2008 6:43:31 PM)
Gee. A lot of running around and name-calling, but nobody actually willing to stand up and defend France on this... kinda like WWII... As I said at the outset, and nobody seems willing to explain, I don't know what passes for freedom of expression there. It seems that question is a bit of a raw nerve. Oh well.

kittinSol -> RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE (9/27/2008 6:45:24 PM)
Estimant, sans doute elle aussi, que des images de poitrine féminine sont pornographiques, Isabelle Ardeef, substitut du procureur de la République de Cahors, ordonne une enquête préliminaire. Convoqué à la gendarmerie, Philippe Pissier apprend qu’il est passible de trois ans d’emprisonnement et de 175.000 euros d’amende, en vertu de l’article 227-24 du code pénal. Motif : trouble à l’ordre public et mise en danger du psychisme des enfants par une oeuvre pornographique. http://sexes.blogs.liberation.fr/agnes_giard/2008/09/photos-de-seins.html I'm not sure how it would go down if I were to post photographs of bare breasted women of an obviously sado-masochistic nature without an envelope in America: something tells me it wouldn't go down all that well either. Just to say that freedom of expression is repressed pretty much everywhere you go: after all, it's here in America that I was told I couldn't take my top off on the beach... because breasts are illegal. PS: it's obvious the public prosecutor has a problem. This doesn't make 'France' the culprit: rather, an individual abusing her power and wasting her professional time and expertise. But enjoy your superiority trip, Heretic [8D] . Buzzword: censorship on television.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE (9/27/2008 6:54:12 PM)
quote: I'm not sure how it would go down if I were to post photographs of bare breasted women of an obviously sado-masochistic nature without an envelope in America: something tells me it wouldn't go down all that well either. It wouldn't go down well at all. It's against the law to use the U.S. mail to send obscene materials. You can technically go to jail for it. quote: after all, it's here in America that I was told I couldn't take my top off on the beach... because breasts are illegal. It depends on the beach. We do have topless beaches here, and I am actually glad there are beaches that don't allow it. I don't really want to see a big, fat lady in her 50's whose breasts are at her waist without a top. Trust me, if it's allowed those are the women you'd see at the beach with their tops off.

kittinSol -> RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE (9/27/2008 7:03:08 PM)
It looks like the country is up in arms over this episode, slaveboy. It's not like this kind of thing goes down well with the French public, who are big suckers for bare boobs [8D] (after all, they use breasts to sell yogurts and cleaning detergent on the television over there). The public prosecutor isn't even taking phone calls because she's so embarrassed: she fucked up big time. I suspect she saw this as a perfect opportunity to further her career... and that it went back to bite her in the ass. Probably someone with a sexual disorder of some form or another...

Kirata -> RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE (9/27/2008 7:04:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol freedom of expression is repressed pretty much everywhere you go Your "freedom of expression" stops, and properly so, when it's shoved in the face of unwilling people who don't want to see it. Get it now? K.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE (9/27/2008 7:23:24 PM)
Kittin, I don't know that much about French culture other than what I've read and seen in movies. I admit my ignorance, but the story surprised me. I don't think we'd prosecute someone for this. The postal service would just return it. Our mail obscenity laws are aimed mostly at porn merchants from soliciting people that don't want it, and illegal porn that can't be mentioned here. I don't have a problem with a law requiring someone to put a provocative photo in an envelope. But they should have just sent it back with a notice, "Hey, put this in an envelope."

slvemike4u -> RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE (9/27/2008 7:47:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Estimant, sans doute elle aussi, que des images de poitrine féminine sont pornographiques, Isabelle Ardeef, substitut du procureur de la République de Cahors, ordonne une enquête préliminaire. Convoqué à la gendarmerie, Philippe Pissier apprend qu’il est passible de trois ans d’emprisonnement et de 175.000 euros d’amende, en vertu de l’article 227-24 du code pénal. Motif : trouble à l’ordre public et mise en danger du psychisme des enfants par une oeuvre pornographique. http://sexes.blogs.liberation.fr/agnes_giard/2008/09/photos-de-seins.html I'm not sure how it would go down if I were to post photographs of bare breasted women of an obviously sado-masochistic nature without an envelope in America: something tells me it wouldn't go down all that well either. Just to say that freedom of expression is repressed pretty much everywhere you go: after all, it's here in America that I was told I couldn't take my top off on the beach... because breasts are illegal. PS: it's obvious the public prosecutor has a problem. This doesn't make 'France' the culprit: rather, an individual abusing her power and wasting her professional time and expertise. But enjoy your superiority trip, Heretic [8D] . Buzzword: censorship on television. Kittin completely as an aside....what beach do you go to .....[:)]

kittinSol -> RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE (9/27/2008 8:28:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol freedom of expression is repressed pretty much everywhere you go Your "freedom of expression" stops, and properly so, when it's shoved in the face of unwilling people who don't want to see it. Get it now? La liberte d'expression doit etre totale dans la mesure où elle respecte strictement le droit de propriété d'autrui , mais aussi et surtout la personne et ses susceptibilités. La liberté des uns s'arrète où commence celle des autres et réciproquement , cette même liberté des uns commence où s'arrète celle des autres. La liberté, c'est l'acceptation des contraintes d'une vie sociale et le respect d'autrui. Ne fait pas à autrui les actes dont tu pourrais en reprocher la nature de la part des autres , à ton endroit. (inspired by http://www.wikiberal.org/wiki/Libert%C3%A9_d'expression) And now, do you get it?

kittinSol -> RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE (9/27/2008 8:41:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou But they should have just sent it back with a notice, "Hey, put this in an envelope." To suggest that there is a problem with nudity and freedom of expression in France is ludicrous. All in all, the country is pretty sexually liberated: I know what I'm talking about. The problem here seems to be stemming from a narrow-minded public prosecutor on a power trip. Now, this doesn't mean the artist doesn't need and deserve public support. Rather, it suggests that foreign commentators need to get off their high horse and see this for what it is: an individual case, and not a representation of the state of mind of an entire country. And perhaps, a need to address the problem of the judiciary committing abuses of power (not a nation-specific problem, we'll all agree).

slaveboyforyou -> RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE (9/27/2008 9:13:39 PM)
quote: To suggest that there is a problem with nudity and freedom of expression in France is ludicrous. All in all, the country is pretty sexually liberated: I know what I'm talking about. I'm not suggesting that. I've never been to France, and you'll notice that I don't cast aspersions on the French here. quote: Rather, it suggests that foreign commentators need to get off their high horse and see this for what it is: an individual case, and not a representation of the state of mind of an entire country. I haven't done that. But this suggestion also applies to foreign commentators that assume things about American culture based on our criminal justice system or sensationalist stories they read/view in the media. quote: And perhaps, a need to address the problem of the judiciary committing abuses of power (not a nation-specific problem, we'll all agree). Agreed, and this applies to the legal systems of most countries. Prosecutors build their careers by winning cases. It's true in both the Anglo-Saxon rooted English common law systems and the Roman rooted Napoleonic code systems used in France and one state of the U.S., Louisiana. They don't build their careers by being flexible. I think that's a mistake; it leads to abuses of power.

kittinSol -> RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE (9/27/2008 9:17:06 PM)
Damnation, slaveboy... this is the second time we cross wires... forgive me if it looks like I was addressing you personally: I was making a general commentary. It's all cool. I'm probably homesick [&:] .

slaveboyforyou -> RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE (9/27/2008 9:38:17 PM)
quote: Damnation, slaveboy... this is the second time we cross wires... forgive me if it looks like I was addressing you personally: I was making a general commentary. It's all cool. I'm probably homesick [&:] . No problem, Kittin. You don't have any reason to apologize. I didn't think you were trying to push my buttons, so no wires crossed. [:)]. I can understand you being homesick. The liqour store a block down the street from me that I frequent is owned by a French man. I talk to him at least once a week. I know he hasn't been back there in at least 10 years. He says he loves it here, but I can tell he misses home. I've left my hometown several times in the last 10 years, but I always end up coming back here. It's impossible to forget your roots.

kittinSol -> RE: BIG TROUBLE IN FRANCE (9/27/2008 9:41:29 PM)
Except for me, my roots are firmly across the Channel - they require much leg spreading. That's what happens when the British sleep with Europe [&o] .

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