States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule

States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule (9/25/2008 1:02:00 PM)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,427262,00.html I thought this was all "just a memo"??? Quote" Several medical associations and 13 state attorneys general voiced their opposition Wednesday to a proposed federal rule that they fear would open the door for hospitals and physicians to deny access to contraception. In late August,the bush administration proposed stronger job protections for doctors and other health care workers who refuse to participate in abortions because of religious or moral objections. Abortion foes called it a victory, but abortion rights supporters said they feared the rule could stretch the definition of abortion to include birth control." EndQuote Lucy

Raechard -> RE: States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule (9/25/2008 1:15:00 PM)
How far can an individual or an organisation go in imposing their beliefs on others?

Briena -> RE: States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule (9/25/2008 1:19:04 PM)
I dont even know what to say about this... Its just scary what Bush is trying to do. He just tramples all over our rights like they arent even there. I cant wait until hes out of office, thats for sure.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule (9/25/2008 1:32:30 PM)
I don't see the big deal. Unless you're a total moron, it's not that difficult to locate an abortion provider. It's really not that difficult to find a doctor that will prescribe a contraceptive. For those that believe that medical professionals should be required to perform or assist in practices like abortion.....do you believe they should be required to participate in lethal injections of condemned prisoners if called upon?

Raechard -> RE: States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule (9/25/2008 1:39:46 PM)
The Hippocratic oath says nothing about the unborn child (to my rather limited knowledge) but instead concentrates on the needs of the patient, the comparison you make isn’t valid because a criminal isn’t a patient.

DomKen -> RE: States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule (9/25/2008 1:48:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou I don't see the big deal. Unless you're a total moron, it's not that difficult to locate an abortion provider. It's really not that difficult to find a doctor that will prescribe a contraceptive. For those that believe that medical professionals should be required to perform or assist in practices like abortion.....do you believe they should be required to participate in lethal injections of condemned prisoners if called upon? Consider if the ER doc has moral objections to contraception and a rape victim is brought in. Under these rules the doctor is under no obligation to offer emergency contraception or even tell the patient that such is available. There is only a fairly narrow window where such treatment is effective.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule (9/25/2008 1:49:46 PM)
It's perfectly valid. Medical professionals are the ones that perform most executions now. Even in states that still use other methods than lethal injection, a medical professional will be on hand to confirm death. A lot of people are deeply opposed to the death penalty, just like a lot of people are opposed to abortion. I don't think anyone should be forced to participate in a practice they find morally wrong. I see nothing wrong with a rule that protects the jobs of medical professionals who refuse to participate in practices they find immoral.

Briena -> RE: States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule (9/25/2008 1:56:55 PM)
They already have that right though. Thats the thing. No doctor or health care provider is forced to give an abortion, but they are forced to tell the patient that thats an option for them. If that patiend decides to have an abortion that doctor must send her to a facility that will assist her. With this rule, the doctors dont even have to meantion it as an option, and they are not forced to send her to someone who will assist her with her decision. Thats the big problem with this rule. Thats why all these states are up in arms about it. It is violating the patients right to notification, and to have all options given to them.

Raechard -> RE: States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule (9/25/2008 2:01:12 PM)
That is a spurious argument when you consider no medical professional is forced to do harm in an execution. Don't they have some magic computerised button system so that no one knows who the actual executioner is? You don't need to be a medical professional to press a button the last time I checked. Confirming death isn't the same as causing death and I would be shocked if any medical professionals were involved in the execution process. If they are then I'd take a dim view of them using the title medical professional. Maybe you can argue they are doing it in a humane way and without them people would have to be bludgeoned to death with sticks but that to me is a cop out. Assisted suicide is slightly different though. Why even compare abortion to executions when in most cases you are talking about a cluster of cells which has no more than life potential? If people are going to moan about abortion they should also moan about IVF, is it fair to freeze a human so that he can emerge in the future like Buck Rodgers? So many questions so little time.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule (9/25/2008 2:05:09 PM)
Why should they be forced to do that? How many people have you met that don't know abortion is an option for an unwanted pregnancy? Do you really know anyone that damn ignorant? How many people can't look in the yellow pages and find the local abortion clinic or a group like Planned Parenthood?

cyberdude611 -> RE: States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule (9/25/2008 2:34:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou I don't see the big deal. Unless you're a total moron, it's not that difficult to locate an abortion provider. It's really not that difficult to find a doctor that will prescribe a contraceptive. For those that believe that medical professionals should be required to perform or assist in practices like abortion.....do you believe they should be required to participate in lethal injections of condemned prisoners if called upon? Consider if the ER doc has moral objections to contraception and a rape victim is brought in. Under these rules the doctor is under no obligation to offer emergency contraception or even tell the patient that such is available. There is only a fairly narrow window where such treatment is effective. Its the same thing with pharmacists... if you get a prescription for birth control or the morning-after pill, the pharmacist has a right to refuse to fill the prescription. It's always been that way.

writerly808 -> RE: States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule (9/25/2008 2:45:07 PM)
I hope this rule doesn't come to be official. I'm not one for abortion, on a personal* level*, but I do believe that a woman ought to have the right to choose. Her body, her life, her choice. Seems a no-brainer to me. :P

Kaledorus -> RE: States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule (9/25/2008 2:49:49 PM)
Obama, in Illinois State Senate, voted for a bill approving "live birth abortions". Heck I'll go one better: Mothers have the right to snuff their kids up to age 21.

thornhappy -> RE: States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule (9/25/2008 3:03:11 PM)
Before you believe that, check this out: http://mediamatters.org/items/200808220022 Lots of myths out there. thornhappy

SilverMark -> RE: States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule (9/25/2008 3:39:58 PM)
I am stretching My memory a bit but, I believe this stems from a court case where a pharmacist refused to either fill a prescription for the "morning after" pill. For some reason I think it was a WalMart pharmacy but, I could certainly be wrong.

kittinSol -> RE: States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule (9/25/2008 4:00:21 PM)
Are there really that many people in the medical and pharmaceutical fields who are that squeamish? I seriously doubt there are, and I question the reason for this to be pushed through: it sounds like a paltry excuse to put certain 'delicate subjects' back on the map again. Lest we forget how tangible our rights are [>:] . We still have a long way to go to rob our bodies from the collective scrutiny of those who wish to tell us what we can and cannot do with them.

DomKen -> RE: States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule (9/25/2008 4:55:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou I don't see the big deal. Unless you're a total moron, it's not that difficult to locate an abortion provider. It's really not that difficult to find a doctor that will prescribe a contraceptive. For those that believe that medical professionals should be required to perform or assist in practices like abortion.....do you believe they should be required to participate in lethal injections of condemned prisoners if called upon? Consider if the ER doc has moral objections to contraception and a rape victim is brought in. Under these rules the doctor is under no obligation to offer emergency contraception or even tell the patient that such is available. There is only a fairly narrow window where such treatment is effective. Its the same thing with pharmacists... if you get a prescription for birth control or the morning-after pill, the pharmacist has a right to refuse to fill the prescription. It's always been that way. No. It hasn't. In most parts of the US pharmacists are required to fill any legal prescription. There actually has been a lot of RR types trying to change that recently.

rulemylife -> RE: States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule (9/25/2008 5:44:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 Its the same thing with pharmacists... if you get a prescription for birth control or the morning-after pill, the pharmacist has a right to refuse to fill the prescription. It's always been that way. No, not always that way. The same debate is being played out in many state pharmacy boards and state legislatures. [image]http://my.eimg.net/x.gif[/image]JS Online: Rebuke upheld in refusal to fill birth control Mar 25, 2008 ... Rebuke upheld in refusal to fill birth control. By MARIE ROHDE ... but not pharmacists, are allowed to refuse treatment on moral grounds in ... http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=732092

hoodie -> RE: States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule (9/25/2008 6:23:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Briena They already have that right though. Thats the thing. No doctor or health care provider is forced to give an abortion, but they are forced to tell the patient that thats an option for them. If that patiend decides to have an abortion that doctor must send her to a facility that will assist her. With this rule, the doctors dont even have to meantion it as an option, and they are not forced to send her to someone who will assist her with her decision. Thats the big problem with this rule. Thats why all these states are up in arms about it. It is violating the patients right to notification, and to have all options given to them. My aunt has been a family physician since 1982. She is morally opposed to abortion, but she is still required by Pennsylvania law to tell patients who have come to her, and found out they are pregnant that abortion is one of their options. Furthermore, if they inquire, she is bound BY LAW to refer them to one of several doctors or clinics for further evaluation. She is not allowed to state her moral opposition to abortion, though most in the community know, because the town isn't that big. As far as emergency room's go... MANY hospitals, at least in Pennsylvania have more than one doctor in the ER..just for the reason of moral opposition to the morning after pill. We have little to no instances of women being denied the mediciation they need for that reason alone. So perhaps instead of targeting the administration that basically said hey wait a minute when these physicians were getting fired, why not target the facilities that are too worried about the bottom line, and not their patients? That might be a good place to start, no?

thishereboi -> RE: States, Medical Groups Oppose Abortion Rule (9/25/2008 7:17:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Are there really that many people in the medical and pharmaceutical fields who are that squeamish? I seriously doubt there are, and I question the reason for this to be pushed through: it sounds like a paltry excuse to put certain 'delicate subjects' back on the map again. Lest we forget how tangible our rights are [>:] . We still have a long way to go to rob our bodies from the collective scrutiny of those who wish to tell us what we can and cannot do with them. Ya know, I doubt there are that many either. So I don't see the problem if they don't want to do abortions. There are plenty of other doctors out there who will have no problem doing the procedure.

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