RE: deal breakers...... (Full Version)

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DavanKael -> RE: deal breakers...... (9/24/2008 8:41:21 PM)

Someone out to overturn Roe versus Wade.  Also, any other infringements on personal freedoms will likely lose a candidate my vote. 
  Davan



philosophy -> RE: deal breakers...... (9/24/2008 10:17:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      Let's go with this.  The candidate would have to have violated the peculiar, possibly perverse, set of values I hold most dear, in a way that I can't rationalize.

      


...oh, that's interesting. After all, in the age of the individual we all now have the right to our own opinion. And as the wise sage has it, everyone has two things: an asshole and an opinion. Maybe thats it though. As the number of individual type of opinions proliferated then it became less and less possible for politicians to actually gel with that many opinions. Consider how the information age has made it possible for people to hold quite weird opinions and, unline other ages, introduce that opinion to millions of others. In other words, the big idea has become issue based when it used to be attitude based........



TheHeretic -> RE: deal breakers...... (9/24/2008 10:27:32 PM)

       Values run much deeper than opinion, Phil.  Core beliefs, that might evolve, but hardly ever change.



Vendaval -> RE: deal breakers...... (9/24/2008 10:46:39 PM)

You like making us think, phil.  I have a strong set of core values and any candidate whose positions are opposite to those values would get the boot and not the vote.  Civil rights, human rights, religious freedom and privacy, gender roles and women's issues, health care, education, the environment, maintaining America's small businesses and repairing the nation's infrastructure, protecting our own borders and staying out of foreign conflicts, and the ending of all these "wars on...."    whatever the buzz-word-fear-flavor-political-grandstanding-bull-shit of the decade happens to be.  Declaring a War on Drugs for example, immediately narrows and fragments the ways of perceiving and dealing with drug abuse and misuse. 
 
I would love to see more long term thinking, consideration of consequences and the ability to view our society holistically with a basic understanding of human nature and history and how social systems interact with economic ones.
 
Is that good enough for a starting discussion? 



NorthernGent -> RE: deal breakers...... (9/24/2008 11:14:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

In politics, what is your deal breaker? What is the policy you can never support?



The government withholding information or deliberately misinforming the public; sadly, it happens - regularly. This is one area which leads me to believe that Liberalism is the better of two flawed options.



nobhobbery -> RE: deal breakers...... (9/24/2008 11:34:21 PM)

There is nothing in politics that concerns me so much that I cannot get over it to satisfy my overall leanings. Not even abortion, though that's pretty close.



philosophy -> RE: deal breakers...... (9/25/2008 12:08:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      Values run much deeper than opinion, Phil.  Core beliefs, that might evolve, but hardly ever change.


..fair point.........please amend my last post and substitute 'value' for 'opinion'.

Some here have expressed reservations about multi-culturalism, but when each individual is their own culture, their own expression of their core values and beliefs, then maybe multi-culturalism is inevitable.



meatcleaver -> RE: deal breakers...... (9/25/2008 1:19:48 AM)

Those that say they believe in free markets because invariably they are lying.



philosophy -> RE: deal breakers...... (9/25/2008 9:49:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

You like making us think, phil.  I have a strong set of core values and any candidate whose positions are opposite to those values would get the boot and not the vote.  Civil rights, human rights, religious freedom and privacy, gender roles and women's issues, health care, education, the environment, maintaining America's small businesses and repairing the nation's infrastructure, protecting our own borders and staying out of foreign conflicts, and the ending of all these "wars on...."    whatever the buzz-word-fear-flavor-political-grandstanding-bull-shit of the decade happens to be.  Declaring a War on Drugs for example, immediately narrows and fragments the ways of perceiving and dealing with drug abuse and misuse. 
 
I would love to see more long term thinking, consideration of consequences and the ability to view our society holistically with a basic understanding of human nature and history and how social systems interact with economic ones.
 
Is that good enough for a starting discussion? 


..oh yes. So, when you come to selecting a political candidate, do you first look for the best fit to your core values, or do you look for the worst fit? What's the balance between those two extremes?



Vendaval -> RE: deal breakers...... (9/25/2008 2:15:49 PM)

I look first for the closest fit.  A few candidates become null and void because their values are diametrically opposed to mine.



philosophy -> RE: deal breakers...... (9/25/2008 3:18:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

I look first for the closest fit.  A few candidates become null and void because their values are diametrically opposed to mine.


...it's that phrase 'closest fit' that gives me pause. It has an assumption (sorta) in it. It assumes that all values are equally held. i wonder if that is true.....
For instance, one may have core values that include aid for Africa, anti abortion and gay rights........suppose in a field of candidates where viirtually all are so-so on all those issues.....but there's one candidate who is right alongside aid for Africa and gay rights but is pro-choice. That's two out of three, but is the one left over a problem? And if so, then all values are not equally held.
How can we best get a handle on that inequality?



Vendaval -> RE: deal breakers...... (9/25/2008 5:15:54 PM)

Hm...some of the order of priorities might shift depending upon circumstances and social/economic/political changes.  One of the constants in life is change and being flexible is a good plan.



TheHeretic -> RE: deal breakers...... (9/25/2008 6:24:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

How can we best get a handle on that inequality?


       Values come into conflict all the time, though.  They are not equal.  That's why I mentioned rationalizing violations.  What is most important?



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