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Doubts? - 9/14/2008 8:34:30 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		We have had quite a few political threads recently. They all seem to degenerate into the same thing.
" My guy is great, Your guy sucks".

What I want to know is, does anyone have any concerns about their chosen candidates? It is easy to attack the other side. What about real doubts about your own side?

Jeff
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RE: Doubts? - 9/14/2008 8:39:38 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Jefff, only a fool would not have a few doubts.
 
I have several doubts concerning Obama, but I have
10,000 more doubts concerning McCain.
 
Both parties are far from perfect, but I can't vote for more of the same damn sort
of things/policies we have in the White House right now.
 
Peace

< Message edited by MzMia -- 9/14/2008 8:40:20 PM >

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RE: Doubts? - 9/14/2008 8:41:32 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Not especially.
Obama's taken the high road, and held himself above the attack ads throughout this foray into mudslinging that McCain/Pailn/Rove have been unleashing. He has a solid platform, and a knack for chosing the right people to join him.

If I have anything critical to say about the way he conducts himself, it's that you don't fight off vampires with with a smile. I want to see him get out there, and nail these republican nosferatu by going on the offensive. He has the truth, and the history of the last eight years, to draw upon. A history that his opponent, "maverick" John McCain, helped to create.

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RE: Doubts? - 9/14/2008 9:38:58 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline 		Do I have doubts?

I have doubts about the particulars of both candidates' platforms. As is the norm with Presidential campaigns, their economic promises don't fully add up. Their foreign policy ideas are, ultimately, just that--ideas, not actions. Will their policies work exactly as promised? That I highly doubt.

What I do not doubt is that one candidate is a leader and the other candidate is a cheerleader.

Nor do I doubt that the Oval Office is no place for pom-poms.

I have doubts--but not about which man belongs in the Oval Office. There is no doubt about that.

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RE: Doubts? - 9/14/2008 9:39:47 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		I'm still an undecided voter, leaning towards Senator Obama. No matter my choice, I will have some pretty serious doubts.
 
Senator Obama's tax and spend platform (or lack of platform) scares me a bit more than Senator McCain's tax and spend platform ... but, Senator Obama will likely get to Washington to discover he doesn't have close to the political muscle needed to pull any of it off, and will likely spend four years doing nothing at all.
 
In the end, gridlock is better than brainlock.

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the woman you stole.

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RE: Doubts? - 9/14/2008 9:56:47 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I'm still an undecided voter, leaning towards Senator Obama. No matter my choice, I will have some pretty serious doubts.
 
Senator Obama's tax and spend platform (or lack of platform) scares me a bit more than Senator McCain's tax and spend platform ... but, Senator Obama will likely get to Washington to discover he doesn't have close to the political muscle needed to pull any of it off, and will likely spend four years doing nothing at all.
 
In the end, gridlock is better than brainlock.


Caitlyn, you obviously haven't read Obama's bill, S-2433 yet, have you?

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RE: Doubts? - 9/14/2008 10:00:21 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		       "Doubts" would imply I actually believed in something to begin with. 

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RE: Doubts? - 9/14/2008 10:52:38 PM   
caitlyn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Caitlyn, you obviously haven't read Obama's bill, S-2433 yet, have you?


A bill that will never pass.
 
What could pass though, is four more years of Neo-Cons, running around the world with a mandate to remove everyone's tin pot dictator.
 
Me, I'm voting for the bill that will never pass.

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I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

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RE: Doubts? - 9/15/2008 6:30:41 AM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, you are right, Celtic Lord, the oval office is no place for a cheerleader. After eight years of having Bush (an ex cheerleader) in office, we can definitely agree on THAT, at least.

"Impeach the cheerleader... save the world." (as one bumpersticker put it.)


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RE: Doubts? - 9/15/2008 6:34:51 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I doubt that he will be able to get past the political gridlock to make the changes necessary.  I hope I am wrong. I do not doubt his sincerity and desire to do the right thing for his country.

He certainly does not give me the feeling of sickened horror that the alternative does.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Doubts? - 9/15/2008 7:06:33 AM   
chiaThePet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

" My guy is great, Your guy sucks".


To be honest, in that twisted world of mine, if my guy sucked, that would be great.

chia* (the pet)

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You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

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RE: Doubts? - 9/15/2008 7:50:15 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Jefff, I have my doubts about Obama, but I still have to go with him over the alternative. In light of my past disdain for democrats, some may find that unexpected. However nobody here experienced my opinion back then, I joined CM in the latter Bush years.

I don't blame republicans for everything, these problems were definitley a bipartisan effort. I liked Reagan, while he didn't accomplish much he didn't screw up much. Carter hit the beehive with a baseball so to speak in Iran. By giving the Shah asylum he had a hand in making Iran an enemy. Guess where part of the money that got him elected came from.

Even though I liked Reagan his trickle down theory did not work. He did not realize how greedy some people are. Good in concept, bad in practice.

They all screw up. I have to go with Obama because there is a chance that he can get the middle east to simmer down a bit. We can't afford the monetary cost of continuing Bush polices there. Also, electing McCain is telling the world that We The People support all this bloodshed over nothing. By electing Obama we tell the world that we are as sick of it as they are. Not that we should elect our representatives based on what the rest of the world thinks, but it is something to be taken into consideration.

So yes I have my doubts. It's just that those doubts do not outweigh the certainties associated with a McCain win. I am fairly sure McCain will continue the same policies as the Bush administration, the middle east will be more agitated, and he will ignore the enormous cost of these policies.

So you could say that I have more doubts about Obama than I do about McCain, but in this case, doubt may actually be a good thing. In other words I don't know what will happen if Obama is elected, but I do know what will happen if McCain is elected and I don't like it.

T



< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 9/15/2008 7:55:42 AM >

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RE: Doubts? - 9/15/2008 8:46:48 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Caitlyn, you obviously haven't read Obama's bill, S-2433 yet, have you?


A bill that will never pass.
 
What could pass though, is four more years of Neo-Cons, running around the world with a mandate to remove everyone's tin pot dictator.
 
Me, I'm voting for the bill that will never pass.


Morning caitlyn,

How do you figure that bill will never pass?  If things go as projected, the Dems will have close to a filibuster proof majority, it has already passed the house.  So all they need is a Dem president (who if he wins would be the man that wrote the bill) to get it passed.

You stated in an earlier post that you enjoy gridlock... How is a Dem House, a Dem Senate and a Dem White House even close to gridlock?

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RE: Doubts? - 9/15/2008 8:58:03 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		S2433 increases my doubts, but not enough to vote for McCain.

T

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RE: Doubts? - 9/15/2008 9:08:01 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

S2433 increases my doubts, but not enough to vote for McCain.

T


It is that bill, along with a pattern of stated positions (redistribution of wealth, universal voluntary service, etc...) that has cemented my feelings on the man. 

My doubts about the other candidates are based on their ability to get things done with a Congress dominated by Dems.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Doubts? - 9/15/2008 9:19:11 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		My doubts are not about integrity or ability mine are can either candidate get us out of this mess Bush has put us in. Which ever is elected will have a monumental job just getting back to our pre-Bush status.

I respect McCain and could live with his Presidency although I think he has it wrong about Iraq. I also think he is wrong about abortion and stem cell research and think it is time we had a national referendum on these issues. They are taking up too much time and energy of our leaders.

The reason I like Obama....He thinks the same way I do...He responds the same way I would...I do believe he will do what is best for America and not only his party. I understand he has a lot to learn but I think he is up to it.

Butch

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RE: Doubts? - 9/15/2008 9:19:54 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		I have my doubts about everybody that goes to Washington. Almost every single one that arrives to take office and seek real reform is quickly denegrated and legislatively marginalized.

Many good people from both sides of our political spectrum have NOT sought re-election because of this. Look at earmarks.

Did anyone seriously think that once the damn broke on them (from 100's to 1000's) there would be some shmuck that was going to stop it ? Everybody gets their shot at earmarks so they all pass committee.

Did anyone seriously think back in the 90's that these whores (and I apologize to the 'whores' among us) were going to vote in term limits ? Now that was a good one.

Did anybody seriously think or do they now...that at no matter the level of tax revenue...that tax spending would come down ?

Does anybody seriously think that as the baby boomers retire and all of these unfunded liabilities come due that spending will go down elsewhere ? Taxes will go up and by large margins all the way up until we tell them...no more.

As for foreign policy...they are all smoking from the same pipe...

...will spend our money (and coming home to their friends) around the world where it will sustain or create their legacy.

...will remain engaged in wars or the creation or prevention of same to keep trade (profits) coming in.

...will keep losing the very profitable war on drugs

...will repeat the mantra of a "war-on-terrorism" that will remain now a very profitable war that cannot be won and will never end.

...will continue to throw our $billions at the UN to perpetuate the same. (Since the UN was created: 140 million war dead, diseases unchecked now in 3rd world pursuit, 30,000+ children PER DAY dying of starvation) real successful bunch there.

...will purposefully continue to toe-the-line with our oil industry predominantly acting in their interests. Although have been seeing some new ideas on deals we can make for more offshore and ANWR...will Washington insist ?

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 9/15/2008 9:37:23 AM >

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RE: Doubts? - 9/15/2008 10:38:38 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

S2433 increases my doubts, but not enough to vote for McCain.

T


It is that bill, along with a pattern of stated positions (redistribution of wealth, universal voluntary service, etc...) that has cemented my feelings on the man. 

My doubts about the other candidates are based on their ability to get things done with a Congress dominated by Dems.


Just wondering what is so bad about that bill...forget all the nut case websites...GO READ THE ACTUAL BILL

Then please come back here and tell me what you object to...be sure you read the bill and not rightwing websites and quote them... they are as usual wrong.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/15/2008 10:40:41 AM >

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RE: Doubts? - 9/15/2008 10:45:31 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

S2433 increases my doubts, but not enough to vote for McCain.

T


It is that bill, along with a pattern of stated positions (redistribution of wealth, universal voluntary service, etc...) that has cemented my feelings on the man. 

My doubts about the other candidates are based on their ability to get things done with a Congress dominated by Dems.


Just wondering what is so bad about that bill...forget all the nut case websites...GO READ THE ACTUAL BILL

Then please come back here and tell me what you object to...be sure you read the bill and not rightwing websites and quote them... they are as usual wrong.

Butch


I have read it numerous times, one must also read what that bill is claiming to institute from the UN.  Like I have said previously the title sounds great, it is the execution of what is in the bill and what it mandates (acceptance of certain treaties, giving the UN jurisdiction over small arms, and other such policies) the president and congress to do.

There is no doubt what the underlying mandates are designed to do, and solving poverty is just a small part of it.

Edited to add: I have made posts around here quoting the legislation with a direct link to it, and also quoted the portions of the UN policy that the bill says would be instituted.  Just a simple search away.

< Message edited by Thadius -- 9/15/2008 10:47:39 AM >

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RE: Doubts? - 9/15/2008 10:47:03 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I don't have any doubts about "my" candidate, Chuck Baldwin.

Sorry but I don't want to contribute an "additional" $854B to the "U.N." for the eradication of "world" poverty ala S-2433!
We need to go the other way and end these "foreign aid" programs to countries some of which have lasted for 50 or more years!
They've become "welfare" payments.
"A hand up" should last 2 or 3 years not 40 or 50!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 9/15/2008 10:52:30 AM >

_____________________________

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