RE: Ok who will win? (Full Version)

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philosophy -> RE: Ok who will win? (9/10/2008 2:32:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
philo,
Exactly! I only point out that there is no altruistic motive behind it other than his own.


....well, there may be an altruistic motive concerned, there may not.....but it would certainly be MC's own. Just as my own motives are my own.

quote:

I only ask that mine, and anyones isn't legislated out of possibility by 'good intent', or 'for the children' motives.


.....also agreed. In my opinion US society economically disenfranchises too large a percentage of its population. I'd argue that a good many US citizens potential has already been legislated out of possibility.

quote:

Economic or social redistribution are words only made relevant by perspective.


....again, wholly agreed. Which is not to say that any position is necessarily correct. Just that it's probably correct from that perspective. From that perspective someone elses correct view will appear incorrect.


quote:

 MC's perspective is no more 'right' than mine, yours, or anyones. I point to the fact that in any matrix, a hierarchy exists which is counter to his stated goal.


.....i doubt even MC will deny that hierarchies will inevitably be present. However where he may argue, and i'd tend to agree with him, is thart fixed hierarchies are historically dangerous.  A fixed hierarchy doesn't have to be of royal blood or anything....all you need is a big enough slowdown in social mobility and, BANG, fixed hierarchy.


quote:

In practice as well as theory if anyone is required to work in the majority for someone else greater effort is counter intuitive. As is the case if something is given to you, or you aren't allowed to fail. His model eliminates ambition, mine encourages it.


....this is one of those views that, while wholly correct from your perspective, doesn't seem fair from mine. For me it's not all or nothing. i see a balance possible between some social security and ambition.



meatcleaver -> RE: Ok who will win? (9/10/2008 11:55:12 PM)

General point

Social democracies tend to be more democratic than the USA and the UK where national governments are chosen by constitutencies, that very fact gives established parties and views an inbuilt advantage.

There is no country in the world that operates a free market, all have national protection of the economy as much as can be in the modern world and all skew law and regulation to the advantage of one section of society or another. The USA and UK skew the advantages towards the rich, social democracies skew the benefit to the majority. There is a bigger chances of the poor of the USA and the UK dying poor than in social democracies where it has been demonstrated that people are more socially mobile.



Jack45 -> RE: Ok who will win? (9/11/2008 9:33:47 PM)

National Public Radio on Friday, August 15th, Howard Dean, the chairman of the Democratic National Committee
quote:

The fact is that the Democratic party is made up of lots of different people, and we’re all minorities in our party. That’s the way it’s been for a long, long time. We’re the party of opportunity. So the demographic trends favor the Democrats.

If you look at folks of color, even women, they’re more successful in the Democratic Party than they are in the white, uh, excuse me, in the [laughs] Republican Party.



popeye1250 -> RE: Ok who will win? (9/12/2008 1:04:14 AM)

Once again Howard Dean's talking out his ass.
It's obvious that McCain will win.
People in the U.S. will simply not vote for a Leftist.
Plus, Nader will drain 2-5 million votes from him as will Bob Barr and the Libertarians.
Then there's 20-30% of Hillary's voters who want to see Hillary run in 2012!
How many millions is that?
Of course the mainstream media is trying to say that this will be a "close election."
I don't think so.



PrincessJ77 -> RE: Ok who will win? (9/12/2008 2:20:53 AM)

I'm writing in Craig Ferguson.  He funny, adorable, and looks good in a kilt.



subrob1967 -> RE: Ok who will win? (9/12/2008 2:36:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrincessJ77

I'm writing in Craig Ferguson.  He funny, adorable, and looks good in a kilt.


Also Canadian, so not eligable



NeedToUseYou -> RE: Ok who will win? (9/12/2008 3:37:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Once again Howard Dean's talking out his ass.
It's obvious that McCain will win.
People in the U.S. will simply not vote for a Leftist.
Plus, Nader will drain 2-5 million votes from him as will Bob Barr and the Libertarians.
Then there's 20-30% of Hillary's voters who want to see Hillary run in 2012!
How many millions is that?
Of course the mainstream media is trying to say that this will be a "close election."
I don't think so.


I was thinking the same thing until about 12 hours ago, when they let Palin be interviewed. If the republicans want to win they can't let Palin keep speaking in a non-scripted format. She's really good at speeches right behind Obama in a more folksy girley way, but, IMO, she is the worst of the four in an interview format, unless that first installment was a fluke. If not she's going to get slaughtered in any serious debate, or interview. I saw easy prey there.

The only reason I had thought McCain might now win is because of the backlash all this ridiculous non-issue Palin bashing was getting. By that I mean the "stories" with no substance, that were proved false in like two days or blown way up out of proportion, which made the democrats look like crap. Now, the democrats are getting substantive stuff to bash her with, if they are smart enough to use the ample ammo supplied. Plus the repubs are making themselves look stupid getting huffy about this lipstick on a pig crap. LOL.

God, I hate republican and democrat politicians and their disgusting handlers. They have (both parties), made this by far the most retarded election cycle in the history of this country. Pigs, babies daddy, muslim accusations, flip floppers, inexperience, book banning, "Hussein", racism accusations, sexism accusations, Houses, Rich, Poor, blah, blah, blah.

Lehman brothers by the way is getting ready to crash(well is in the middle of crashing), and probably get taken over the powers that be(speculation is Bank of America, a darling of the Federal Reserve, and a personal long term stock pick, because of the corrupt nature of this Federal Reserve based system). Merrill is being spoken of as being a possible next to fall (I have no idea who could absorb their carcass, if they do fail). Fannie crashed, Freddie Crashed, Countrywide crashed, Bear Stearns crashed and absorbed. China's trade surplus expanded, Japan just had a contracted GDP quarter. The ice cap in August contracted at the fastest rate ever recorded for the month. Oil is still up tremendously. We are facing severe water shortages in several sections of the country in the coming decade, the power grid capacity needs extensive upgrades(demand increase outpace increased capacity 4 to 1). Bush authorized crossing Pakistans border without permission(according to the BBC), something that the Pakistanis say is a no no. I could list a dozen more important things really that should be addressed in a real way. And those aren't even the fundamental issues that need to be addressed that caused all the collapses.

Anyway, the US is getting what it deserves at this point, you can't exactly feel for a nation , people, and media that will talk sports, gossip, and hypothetical nothings while standing on the railroad tracks. I'd think we'd want to talk of the train lumbering nearer and how to get off the tracks in such a situation, guess not.

Oh, man I'll be so glad when this election is over, and I know which piece of crap won. And we can all stop talking about pigs, abortion, guns, and get back to the business of going broke quicker.




meatcleaver -> RE: Ok who will win? (9/12/2008 3:49:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Lehman brothers by the way is getting ready to crash(well is in the middle of crashing), and probably get taken over the powers that be(speculation is Bank of America, a darling of the Federal Reserve, and a personal long term stock pick, because of the corrupt nature of this Federal Reserve based system). Merrill is being spoken of as being a possible next to fall (I have no idea who could absorb their carcass, if they do fail). Fannie crashed, Freddie Crashed, Countrywide crashed, Bear Stearns crashed and absorbed. China's trade surplus expanded, Japan just had a contracted GDP quarter. The ice cap in August contracted at the fastest rate ever recorded for the month. Oil is still up tremendously. We are facing severe water shortages in several sections of the country in the coming decade, the power grid capacity needs extensive upgrades(demand increase outpace increased capacity 4 to 1). Bush authorized crossing Pakistans border without permission(according to the BBC), something that the Pakistanis say is a no no. I could list a dozen more important things really that should be addressed in a real way. And those aren't even the fundamental issues that need to be addressed that caused all the collapses.



You haven't been listening NTUY, CHANGE is coming down the track, whatever that is.

Though the light at the end of the tunnel is probably a train.



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