RE: Poll: Republicans taking over Congress? (Full Version)

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meatcleaver -> RE: Poll: Republicans taking over Congress? (9/10/2008 9:07:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Perhaps you should try a little foreign travel.

US foreign aid, like the aid of most countries is spent to benefit the donor country rather than the recipient.

Ok, so you're saying the US should not dole out foreign aid, our sending aid to places like Africa is just a thinly disguised form of imperialism.  I guess you're then saying that this "not telling the world what to do" (yes I'm paraphrasing) means America needs to keep its dollars at home.

I can live with that. 



I said it benefits the donor country and I didn't say the US specifically, I said like the aid from most countries. The USA and EU subsidize their farmers and dump a lot of excess produce on poor countries as aid and in the process destroy local farming economies. If the USA and EU were really concerned for these countries they would open their markets and let the agricultural industries of small countries compete freely. Most aid is not emergency aid that helps famine and disaster victims. In fact, the dumping of subsidized agricultural procucts have been the seed of several famines.




kittinSol -> RE: Poll: Republicans taking over Congress? (9/10/2008 9:09:03 AM)

Cleaver, there's little point in trying to offer real info to people that live in Lalaland.




bipolarber -> RE: Poll: Republicans taking over Congress? (9/10/2008 9:14:05 AM)

I'm perfectly aware of what I want as a voter. I want us following the Constitution again. I want to see checks and balances back in force. I want to see that America still believes in it's basic freedoms and principles....

I want to see the rights of the individual, to BE individual, upheld.

I want Bush, Cheany, Rice, Rumsfeld, Rice and especially Rove... either behind bars, or up against a wall.  Crimes against humanity should not be taken lightly.




popeye1250 -> RE: Poll: Republicans taking over Congress? (9/10/2008 9:16:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Quickly, if you think foreign aid is a sign of altruism on the part of the countries that partake in it, you're extremely naive. They don't do it for nothing, and the retribution more than justifies the (tiny) investment.


Kittin, it just makes the lawyers and lobbyists on K street in D.C. rich along with big cos. and the Mercedes dealers throughout the world.
Look at that $28 M "Birthday Party" that Swaziland just threw for their "King" last week! Gee,I wonder where they got the money for that???
"Foreign Aid" is something that most Americans just don't want our government doing.
Sen. Chris Dodd (D. Conn) back in 1993 acknowledged that, "99% of the American People are against "foreign aid."
Yet, Washington, against the wishes of the American People keeps doing it!
This is one example of what people mean when they say that the govt. doesn't listen.




kittinSol -> RE: Poll: Republicans taking over Congress? (9/10/2008 9:17:42 AM)

See what I said to Cleaver: however endearing you may be, pop, in this instance at least, you don't know what you're talking about. Sorry [&:] .




cyberdude611 -> RE: Poll: Republicans taking over Congress? (9/10/2008 9:18:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112


Voters indeed want a change--but I don't think either Obama or McCain know what change the voters want.  The voters themselves may not know what change they want.



There is only one change in the election and that is Obama. For America to have a black President and a President who has a complex view of the world rather than the usual simplistic view of guys black hats and guys in white hats, would be a change for America. Apart from the probable good it would do for America itself to reject the failed policies of the Republicans, it would stop world wide anti-Bushism becoming world wide anti-Americanism. McCain, is more of the same, Palin is more of the same in a dress, xenophobic, simplistic and deranged. The failure of Obama would be seen as a rejection of political maturity for the security of a xenophobic comfort zone that will prove not only bad for the world but bad for America too.

Sadly, Obama's black skin will probably see him fail.


Im sorry...I think you must have confused me for someone who actually gives a damn what the world thinks of our politicians. It has nothing to do with political maturity. It has to do with political philosophy. America is a center-right country. It's always been. The world needs to get used to that because it's not going to change.

And trying to say that liberals are somehow more advanced in thinking is a sign of elitism and arrogance and that does not go over well with American voters. They will reject that.




popeye1250 -> RE: Poll: Republicans taking over Congress? (9/10/2008 9:25:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

See what I said to Cleaver: however endearing you may be, pop, in this instance at least, you don't know what you're talking about. Sorry [&:] .


Kittin, usually when people immigrate to the U.S. they embrace "our ways" and leave all that old thinking and failed systems behind them.
You're not in Europe anymore Dorothy.




kittinSol -> RE: Poll: Republicans taking over Congress? (9/10/2008 9:31:31 AM)

Which ways would that be? Your way :-) ? You don't hold the monopoly of the US way, pop.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Poll: Republicans taking over Congress? (9/10/2008 9:47:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
US foreign aid, like the aid of most countries is spent to benefit the donor country rather than the recipient.


MC -
Don't back off from this position so quickly! It is fundamentally correct.

Two of the best example are aid to Israel and Egypt. The lions share of that money is spent buying US military goods. It comes under the heading of 'foreign aid' but in reality the beneficiaries are US companies like Grumman, McDonnell Douglas, and Lockheed Martin. Check out the 'primary users' on this link: http://www.gunslot.com/blog/top-active-united-states-military-fighter-jets 

In many cases, most not under the category of 'disaster relief', foreign aid is 'US Corporate Aid'.

Whether this is good or bad shouldn't be implied by the pragmatic facts regarding the issue. It points again to the reality that there are no simple issues or solutions to those issues. Should a government do whatever it can to support the industries domiciled within it borders?

On the face, cutting aid to Israel or all foreign powers seems basically sound. However the consequences could be the elimination of many, if not all of the assembly line jobs at those companies making the fighter jets. At this point, that industry is the last bastion for a good paying factory worker. The problem is compounded by all the supporting industries currently viable as a direct result of that factory; from the lunch truck in the parking lot, to the office copier salesman.

Its a complex system.




popeye1250 -> RE: Poll: Republicans taking over Congress? (9/10/2008 9:50:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Which ways would that be? Your way :-) ? You don't hold the monopoly of the US way, pop.


Which way?
That socialism which you cling to like a small child with a teddy bear on a stormy night.




MrRodgers -> RE: Poll: Republicans taking over Congress? (9/10/2008 10:34:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Voters indeed want a change--but I don't think either Obama or McCain know what change the voters want.  The voters themselves may not know what change they want.

There is only one change in the election and that is Obama. For America to have a black President and a President who has a complex view of the world rather than the usual simplistic view of guys black hats and guys in white hats, would be a change for America. Apart from the probable good it would do for America itself to reject the failed policies of the Republicans, it would stop world wide anti-Bushism becoming world wide anti-Americanism. McCain, is more of the same, Palin is more of the same in a dress, xenophobic, simplistic and deranged. The failure of Obama would be seen as a rejection of political maturity for the security of a xenophobic comfort zone that will prove not only bad for the world but bad for America too.

Sadly, Obama's black skin will probably see him fail.

Meat, a "complex view of the world?"
Any president had better have a complex view of the U.S.
That's the job.
In so far as they have to deal with foreign countries and leaders they should leave the Taxpayer's checkbook at home.
The People of the U.S. are going to be electing *our* president not a "world president."
And a lot of people in the U.S. would prefer that our government keep "foreign affairs" to a minimum.
I think that can be done without being labeled "xenophobic" which means "a fear of foreigners."
The problem with dealing with (most) foreign countries is that they always have their hands out looking for the Taxpayer's money.
This Taxpayer doesn't want to give them any!
As for Obama he'll lose.
And hopefully so will Pelosi.
The Democrats have had control of the house and senate now for two years and they've done absolutely nothing!
Pelosi won't even keep the house in session!
They ran on the platform of getting our Troops out of Iraq but they're still there!
They couldn't get that done in Two Years?
And as for Bush he'll be gone in Jan.
People will barely remember him by June.
Two DUDS in a row and they both went to "YALE!"

Everybody...has their hands out...wall street, foreigners, agricultural corps., defense industry (Boeing and the AF conspired to fleece another $270 million Wash., Post 9/10). Haliburton and Carlyle group.

Most foriegn aid is contingent on being spent here in the US...another liberal program, those for profits.

If your poltical assessment is true than the electorate should be flocking to the dems.

It was the republicans who:
...got us into a war on a lie at $10 billion a month...$1.5 billion from our children.

...for 6 years having both houses along with the great liar as pres...sat on their profits, lifted no moratorium, passed no drilling bill and created the $4/gal gas. So now the dems are castigated for not doing what the repubs didn't do for those 6 years

...for 2 years since and far too much unlike the dems have used the power of a large enough minority to stop the dems from doing anything. Bush vetoed one bill...the dems and that was over ridden.

The repubs have absolutely no policy credibility at all. They MUST resort to 'identity' politics and the electorate being about 1/2 of otherwise eligible voters...are politically fickle...are buying it. Identity politics works.

The 'indentity' problem just might have this country precipitate 4-8 years more of this and just might see such inflation and debt that could all but bankcrupt this country. But then we put in over a billion man/hrs a day so why not leverage that to the hilt. Afterall...we are here to make some money...the rest is intrigue.




kittinSol -> RE: Poll: Republicans taking over Congress? (9/10/2008 10:51:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Which ways would that be? Your way :-) ? You don't hold the monopoly of the US way, pop.


Which way?
That socialism which you cling to like a small child with a teddy bear on a stormy night.


When I hold on to my teddy, I think of you [&:] .




Mercnbeth -> RE: Poll: Republicans taking over Congress? (9/10/2008 11:01:05 AM)

quote:

It was the republicans who:
...got us into a war on a lie at $10 billion a month...$1.5 billion from our children


WRONG!

A 'simple' majority was all it took to stop funding. The Democrats have a simple majority.
All I suggest is looking at the last vote and vote out anyone, either party, who voted FOR continuing to fund the Iraq War until February 2009. Want to start with Senator Obama? 

A simply majority was all it took to stop funding. The Democrats had and have a simple majority. They made a choice as a party to not use it to facility a goal they represented they had. As a result, Congress' 'favorably' quotient is half that of President Bush.

I said it at the time, the worst thing to happen to the Democrats was that they gained a majority in both houses of Congress in 2006. As a result they can't hide. Now they look like fools, or at least reactionary, befuddled, bureaucrats when their leader, Nancy Pelosi, has to backtrack from her, and her Party's, stated position of not drilling for oil. It seems they have already stopped thinking that Senator Obama can be elected and are worried about their own asses.

Typical of BOTH parties.




MrRodgers -> RE: Poll: Republicans taking over Congress? (9/10/2008 11:13:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Quickly, if you think foreign aid is a sign of altruism on the part of the countries that partake in it, you're extremely naive. They don't do it for nothing, and the retribution more than justifies the (tiny) investment.

Kittin, it just makes the lawyers and lobbyists on K street in D.C. rich along with big cos. and the Mercedes dealers throughout the world.
Look at that $28 M "Birthday Party" that Swaziland just threw for their "King" last week! Gee,I wonder where they got the money for that???
"Foreign Aid" is something that most Americans just don't want our government doing.
Sen. Chris Dodd (D. Conn) back in 1993 acknowledged that, "99% of the American People are against "foreign aid."
Yet, Washington, against the wishes of the American People keeps doing it!
This is one example of what people mean when they say that the govt. doesn't listen.

Washington listens to the people quite well...depends on which people. They listen to the K St. mob you mention yourself. They are the political benefactors with all of that 'free-speech' in the bank and just peaceably 'assembling' for a redress of the grievences...chief among them, they want to make more money.

Anecdotal evidence of royal decadence notwithstanding...becomes less than lunch money for our great leaders.




MrRodgers -> RE: Poll: Republicans taking over Congress? (9/10/2008 2:38:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
quote:

It was the republicans who:
...got us into a war on a lie at $10 billion a month...$1.5 billion from our children


WRONG!

A 'simple' majority was all it took to stop funding. The Democrats have a simple majority.
All I suggest is looking at the last vote and vote out anyone, either party, who voted FOR continuing to fund the Iraq War until February 2009. Want to start with Senator Obama? 

A simply majority was all it took to stop funding. The Democrats had and have a simple majority. They made a choice as a party to not use it to facility a goal they represented they had. As a result, Congress' 'favorably' quotient is half that of President Bush.

I said it at the time, the worst thing to happen to the Democrats was that they gained a majority in both houses of Congress in 2006. As a result they can't hide. Now they look like fools, or at least reactionary, befuddled, bureaucrats when their leader, Nancy Pelosi, has to backtrack from her, and her Party's, stated position of not drilling for oil. It seems they have already stopped thinking that Senator Obama can be elected and are worried about their own asses.

Typical of BOTH parties.

Well we all know that in 2003 there was a repub majority that got us into the war. Once there did anybody have even an inkling of an idea that here we are after over 5 years such unabashed incompetance would still have us so far away from leaving ?

I could just as easily suggest that the threat to cut off funds is why we now have an agreement to leave in 19 mos. I think. Hardly a repub even wanted that much...afterall, war is very profitable.

Didn't take long for the right to call Clinton and others 'traitors' for their position on ending the war. Traitors...really ? Did my or anybody's oppostion to this war and many mid-atlantic repubs included...make us 'traitors.' Identity politics again.

Every WVa., Va., MD., and D.C. repub I talked to...EVERYONE said in 2002-2003 that we had no business going into Iraq.

Mercnbeth...tell me why after 6 years of fully integrated repub control...NOT a single thing about oil ? The president waited until after the dems took congress to lift the drilling moratorium and the repub congress sat for those 6 years and watched gas go to $4/gal. and only when after the dems get the majority...are now holding TV photo ops to say we need to drill.

BTW you and everybody should know that any bill to get to the floor of the senate can first be absentee filibustered (some say unconstitutionally) even from the golf course...that then requires a 60 vote majority to force cloture. That's real power for only 40 senators. The house can pass anything...doesn't make it law. Pelosi is a victim of the senate 'filibuster.'

This is ALL identity politics. The repubs are NOW the good guys...and the dems are holding us up.




Sinergy -> RE: Poll: Republicans taking over Congress? (9/16/2008 11:16:43 PM)


Gallup Polls people who voted in the last election.

With Obama being on the ticket, a very large percentage of his base are not polled.  They vote for him.  They vote for congress and senate people.  They vote for mayors.  They vote for school boards.

They are NOT being pandered to by the media, push polling, or advertising.

Believe what you want, but expect to be surprised because the 18-35 year olds who historically have not voted are turning out in record numbers this election. 

For the slow readers, Gallup Polls dont reflect a lot of the voters who are coming out to vote this election.  Prepare for the news media and the Gallup Pollsters to be sitting around with their thumb anally inserted, looking dumbfounded, wondering why they were incapable of predicting what just happened.

Sinergy




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