Life after abuse.

Life after abuse. (Full Version)

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opposingtwilight -> Life after abuse. (9/9/2008 1:33:04 PM)
I was reading another thread over in the Ask a Submissive section where a submissive woman was dealing with a potentially abusive relationship and it got me to thinking about something. There are always stories of the "survivors of abuse" ... There are a lot of people, mostly women in my experience, who have come from abusive backgrounds and go on to have wonderful, healthy relationships. The thing is, these people were all the victims of abuse. So, what about those who did the abuse? I know that once you're in an abusive relationship, it almost never gets better but worse. Things tend to escalate rather than diminish. The abuse doesn't end until the relationship ends. Is it possible for someone who had been abusive in the past to go on to have a healthy relationship with another person? What would you do if you found out that the person you are involved with had been the abuser in a previous relationship but was not abusive to you ... Yet? Just some thoughts rattling around in my head ...

RCdc -> RE: Life after abuse. (9/9/2008 1:38:55 PM)
I absolutely believe that 'abusers' can go on to form healthy relationships elsewhere. I have seen it happen. Abuse happens for all types of reasons, and perpetuating ones own circumstances is just one of them. the.dark.

Prinsexx -> RE: Life after abuse. (9/9/2008 1:45:00 PM)
i heard this once: victims never forget, perpetrators never remember. It pretty much fits my experience of abuse. Also felt like adding: don't know why abuse gets bought up in bdsm discussions as much as it does, but it does. If there were ever two constructs that were diametrically opposed it would be those of abuse and domination.

persephonee -> RE: Life after abuse. (9/9/2008 1:48:15 PM)
~FR~ The world is full of surprise endings and while i tend to be suspicious of anyone with an admitted past behavior that could negatively impact my life now, i wouldnt completely rule it out. He'd really really have to have something special to bring to the table.

NuevaVida -> RE: Life after abuse. (9/9/2008 1:56:29 PM)
Interesting question. It's been three years since I physically left my marriage due to abuse and my ex husband is still arguing with anyone who tells him he was abusive (at least three therapists, his doctors, his priest, his family, my family, and me). It is his claim that no one really understands and that I abandoned him. A divorce and two suicide attempts later (on his part), he still won't look in the mirror. Until he finds the courage enough to really look at himself, he's not going to change. I hope some day he can do this, as the situation has caused his family a lot of pain, and they are good people. Do I think it is possible? Yes, I do, but whether or not he is willing to, is entirely up to him.

IvyMorgan -> RE: Life after abuse. (9/9/2008 2:30:52 PM)
The now ex husband (remarried to the woman he'd been having an affair with for the duration of the first marriage) of a friend of my mothers who was both abusive to his first wife, and wasn't wholly nice to me (yeah, that's the way to phrase it), is now happily married and in a blossoming relationship. My parents have a great relationship with each other, despite being emotionally abusive towards me. So, yeah, not always going to be an abuser. Just like if you were abused, you're not guaranteed to turn in to an abuser either.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Life after abuse. (9/9/2008 3:10:11 PM)
Yeah, my property's former owner is having a healthy relationship with Bubba in the State Pen. Guaranteed 15 years for that relationship. quote: ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight I was reading another thread over in the Ask a Submissive section where a submissive woman was dealing with a potentially abusive relationship and it got me to thinking about something. There are always stories of the "survivors of abuse" ... There are a lot of people, mostly women in my experience, who have come from abusive backgrounds and go on to have wonderful, healthy relationships. The thing is, these people were all the victims of abuse. So, what about those who did the abuse? I know that once you're in an abusive relationship, it almost never gets better but worse. Things tend to escalate rather than diminish. The abuse doesn't end until the relationship ends. Is it possible for someone who had been abusive in the past to go on to have a healthy relationship with another person? What would you do if you found out that the person you are involved with had been the abuser in a previous relationship but was not abusive to you ... Yet? Just some thoughts rattling around in my head ...

lovingpet -> RE: Life after abuse. (9/9/2008 4:01:01 PM)
Yes, the abuser can become functional. Sometimes it is the chemistry between two people (not at all blaming the victim, just pure capatability) and the frustration of trying to make the partner fit into a mold they cannot and will not can lead to abuse. The same two people with the right chemistry in place can have a perfectly healthy relationship. Sometimes there is a demon to face (past abuse, drugs, alcohol, anger, and more). Once the abuser conquers them, the person can go on to fulfilling relationships. Then there are what I will call the "clinically sadistic". These are the ones that know exactly what they are doing, enjoy the pain they cause, and simply will never stop. And, Prinsexx, I have to agree having been through my fair share as well, that abuse and domination are not only separate constructs, but had better be mutually exclusive. If I sense abuse in a dominant, I run. When these two worlds collide, there can be nothing short of a tragedy. lovingpet

Lockit -> RE: Life after abuse. (9/9/2008 4:06:51 PM)
Once a victim, does not make a victim for life. I do believe it is often a case of choices and one does have them and can make them and can live new ways, healed, recovered or however you wish to phrase it. People can change, whether they do or not depends on them and few do, but some can. We can live with a memory without being haunted by it. If one is haunted by it, in my opinion, they are still victim. If they are able to move on, have healthy relationships, they are no longer victim, maybe survivor, but not victim. It can be done. I know many who have healed, moved on and have very healthy relationships. Where there is a will, there is a way. I realised I didn't answer the question... Most abusers do not change... but they can. There are some good programs that have produced some good results with those that abuse, but it takes a lot of personal work. Simply finding another relationship that doesn't challenge their triggers, isn't a healing of what makes them abusive in the first place. But I have seen some that came through it and seemingly had good relationships. But, I am not sure I would get involved with one of them and it would take some very serious focus to even trust them.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Life after abuse. (9/9/2008 4:12:52 PM)
My honest immediate answer is that I don't care because I can't ever see myself considering a serious relationship with someone who was an abuser. Not that they can't change, simply that someone who would choose to do that is unacceptable to me, now or in the future, and will simply be one of the prices and consequences for their harms. And I'd say it's more like 80% of abusers do not change, and half the ones that do mostly just get too old and sick to do it anymore.

Prinsexx -> RE: Life after abuse. (9/9/2008 4:21:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet Yes, the abuser can become functional. Sometimes it is the chemistry between two people (not at all blaming the victim, just pure capatability) and the frustration of trying to make the partner fit into a mold they cannot and will not can lead to abuse. The same two people with the right chemistry in place can have a perfectly healthy relationship. Sometimes there is a demon to face (past abuse, drugs, alcohol, anger, and more). Once the abuser conquers them, the person can go on to fulfilling relationships. Then there are what I will call the "clinically sadistic". These are the ones that know exactly what they are doing, enjoy the pain they cause, and simply will never stop. And, Prinsexx, I have to agree having been through my fair share as well, that abuse and domination are not only separate constructs, but had better be mutually exclusive. If I sense abuse in a dominant, I run. When these two worlds collide, there can be nothing short of a tragedy. lovingpet i stayed in a marriage long after the point i 'should' have left. i should have left at the first signs of violence but i did not because; 1. i thought i could change him 2. i shared children and a home with him 3. i believed him when he went through the remorse phase 4. i loved an ideal of him rather than being able to see the person he really was 5 he had some sort of power or hold over me. becoming closer to my core enabled me to; 1. understand that i could not ever change another person 2. realise that it was my service that held the home and the support of the children together 3. that 'phases' of behaviour were not what i wanted: i wanted and indeed needed stability 4 being able to accept who i was equalled being able to accept how others were 6 i would not allow or consent to anyone having power OVER me All in all being caught up in and observing and learning from abuse, no matter how tragic and disruptive, has enabled me to spot it in a near instinctual way. The last time i felt a dominant become 'angry' really was the last time and although the 'drop' of releasing myself was severe, to the point of my own breakdown and incapacity, i did it and walked. No way could i ever, would i ever, trust another being ever again, who could not contain and control themselves.

opposingtwilight -> RE: Life after abuse. (9/9/2008 4:26:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Yeah, my property's former owner is having a healthy relationship with Bubba in the State Pen. Guaranteed 15 years for that relationship. I snorted my tea again. Thank you.

tychtyp -> RE: Life after abuse. (9/9/2008 4:28:36 PM)
I don't see why an abuser couldn't be reformed. However, I'd be skeptical if she's an older person. Personalities have a way of ossifying as time goes on, making chances of change more remote over time.

Prinsexx -> RE: Life after abuse. (9/9/2008 4:36:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit But, I am not sure I would get involved with one of them and it would take some very serious focus to even trust them. The problem is that abusers don't wear a badge saying; abusers r us or words to that effect. Abuse is directly pproportional to the amount of perceived inadequacy. What i mean is that the motivator for anger is a feeling of being out of control. anger management is fine but not always successful if it o=nly serves to teach the agressor how to be in control of self. It's really about enabling an agressor to deal skillfully with out of control situations, enabling them to micro manage daily contingencies and those triggers that turn on sudden fl;ashes of violence...in my personal opinion. Sure, controlling self is an element, but in my experience passive agressors do a passable job of controlling themselves until a situation is perceived as threatening...... A 'good' domiant on the other hand, exhibits a capacity to 'control' and manage self and situations, skillfully, directing and assessing risks and setting parameters of well-being for all concerned. It is an incredible responsibility. In edge play, where say blood and breath play is concerned, another person's life (the subissive's life) is in their hands. How do we know? as s-types, simply how do we know? reputation has a great deal to say if there is a powerful community BUT for those who participate mainly in private house parties and non-public scenes, it's far easier for an abuser to hide.

Huntertn -> RE: Life after abuse. (9/9/2008 4:37:03 PM)
What???? Old dogs can't learn new tricks..? Really!

Prinsexx -> RE: Life after abuse. (9/9/2008 4:37:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tychtyp I don't see why an abuser couldn't be reformed. However, I'd be skeptical if she's an older person. Personalities have a way of ossifying as time goes on, making chances of change more remote over time. No. i ain't a skeleton quite yet. The longer i march, the more banners i am able to carry. Believe me.

missturbation -> RE: Life after abuse. (9/9/2008 4:52:34 PM)
I think its entirely possible an abuser can change, go on to have a healthy relationship. Two of my exes who were abusive have. One i dont ever speak to but see at munches etc and speak to his new sub who is absolutely head over heels and and in a very contented relationship with him. The other was nilla and we were just a volatile mix, wrong for each other, very destructive.

Kalista07 -> RE: Life after abuse. (9/9/2008 5:42:04 PM)
i do think it's absolutely possible that anyone can change at any time.... i know many people who in their past were the biggest jackasses ever met. As a previous victim myself, the reality is that there comes a point in time when You stop being the victim and begin being the volunteer. If my partner were to disclose to me that he had been abusive in the past, i would talk to him about it. i would find out if he has any guilt or remorse about it.. Has he made ammends to her yet? And then i would simply and clearly let Him know exactly what type of behavior would and would not be acceptable. Kali

Lockit -> RE: Life after abuse. (9/9/2008 5:51:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit But, I am not sure I would get involved with one of them and it would take some very serious focus to even trust them. The problem is that abusers don't wear a badge saying; abusers r us or words to that effect. Abuse is directly pproportional to the amount of perceived inadequacy. What i mean is that the motivator for anger is a feeling of being out of control. anger management is fine but not always successful if it o=nly serves to teach the agressor how to be in control of self. It's really about enabling an agressor to deal skillfully with out of control situations, enabling them to micro manage daily contingencies and those triggers that turn on sudden fl;ashes of violence...in my personal opinion. Sure, controlling self is an element, but in my experience passive agressors do a passable job of controlling themselves until a situation is perceived as threatening...... A 'good' domiant on the other hand, exhibits a capacity to 'control' and manage self and situations, skillfully, directing and assessing risks and setting parameters of well-being for all concerned. It is an incredible responsibility. In edge play, where say blood and breath play is concerned, another person's life (the subissive's life) is in their hands. How do we know? as s-types, simply how do we know? reputation has a great deal to say if there is a powerful community BUT for those who participate mainly in private house parties and non-public scenes, it's far easier for an abuser to hide. I agree totally prin! I would rather play it safe and not take a chance. As to how someone can know... I am not sure there is a way. That is why I lean on the side of not taking that chance. I have seen a lot of abusers learn the way to seem not abusive and then lose it at some point. One can't just learn a pattern or way of life, but must get to the root of why they do what they do and until then and follow up personal homework... no thank you... don't even want you as a friend. I look for confidence, honor, honesty, self awareness, security and all those positives... but I also look for the lack of them and pride, selfishness, self focus, anger, attitude and all sorts of things. Anything in balance is one thing... but out of balance... too much of.. too little of, are red flags to me and I will listen. I will never forget going into a shelter for abused women as a consultant and when asked to do follow up work with the ladies. I mentioned that most abusers were insecure, one of the counselers there looked at me in shock and said... really? I could not believe it! You don't know that? You are counseling these women and don't know that... shit! Be informed, listen to your inner voice and pay attention is all I can say.

DesFIP -> RE: Life after abuse. (9/9/2008 5:57:20 PM)
First off, if the abuser owned up to it, that by itself would say to me that he had had some life altering experiences causing him to take a good, hard look at himself. And admitting the problem is the first, and the hardest, step. Afterwards comes getting professional help; therapy, anger management, family of origin issues etc. If somebody wants to change, they can, but it takes help and a lot of hard work. Someone who was getting that help, was committed to becoming a person he could respect, and who acknowledged his past is someone I would take a chance on. But I would need to see them taking those steps first.

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