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RE: Hadron Collider - 9/8/2008 10:03:27 AM

bipolarber

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I wish Phil Morrison hadn't passed away when he did. PBS was planning a big miniseries based on his book "The Ring of Truth: Why we know what we know" about the practice of science. How we use it to explore and find out about the universe that surrounds us, without "just making shit up" as we do with religion... all the time. The difference between science an JMSU, is that experiments can be repeated, and the evidence tested.

As in the case of evolution: just a few weeks ago, we got the results from a 20 year long study, changing the enviromental conditions for various bacteria, and we WATCHED as evolution took place: the bacteria adapted to the new conditions. They EVOLVED so that they could survive and thrive in a less than optimum enviroment.

Take that Palin, and the rest of you nutcase Creationists!

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 21

RE: Hadron Collider - 9/8/2008 11:07:27 AM

Aneirin

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Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
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quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

Space and time...

On Wednesday, scientists will switch on the Large Hadron Collider. Sorry to keep going on about this. I know I am beginning to sound like a broken record, but then that's my concern. Scientists freely admit there's a chance this experiment could change the fabric of space... and time. It could speed it up, slow it down or even cause it to stand still. We could all start saying or doing the same thing, over and over. We could all start saying or doing the same thing, over and over and over. And some of us might not even notice!

It has happened already, we keep making the same mistakes over and over again, it seems although we know the answer, we cannot put that answer into practice, it seems our history is our present and future, bloody scientists.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to heartcream)

Post #: 22

RE: Hadron Collider - 9/8/2008 11:21:05 AM

seeksfemslave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber
As in the case of evolution: just a few weeks ago, we got the results from a 20 year long study, changing the enviromental conditions for various bacteria, and we WATCHED as evolution took place: the bacteria adapted to the new conditions. They EVOLVED so that they could survive and thrive in a less than optimum enviroment.
Take that Palin, and the rest of you nutcase Creationists!

My guess is and I am sure DomKen will agree with me that the "evolution" that you describe was in a fact a reduction of information in the DNA of the bacteria. So it didn't represent a tendency to a new species at all.
DNA, as complex a molecule as it is possible to imagine, in a bacterium , a life at almost its simplest and oldest and most successful.

So sprinkle that on your Alaskan Moose Pie hehehehe

(in reply to bipolarber)

Post #: 23

RE: Hadron Collider - 9/8/2008 7:20:37 PM

bipolarber

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Nope. Not a reduction of DNA information. Instead, new attributes to the bacteria itself came about, and the ones with greater survival value thrived. Wash, rinse, repeat... about 300,000 times. Until you now have bacteria that live quite happily in an enviroment that would have been poisonous to the original strains. They ADAPTED their structure, and evolved to conditions.

Do more reading on biology please. Try "What Evolution Is" by Ernst Mayr, or maybe "evolutionary Genetics" by John Maynard Smith.

If you need something a bit more rumedial, there is an "Evolution for Dummies" out there too. By Greg Krukonis, Phd.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Post #: 24

RE: Hadron Collider - 9/8/2008 7:24:29 PM

kdsub

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hmmmmm... if it speeds things up..or slows things down... or even stop things...we will never know..because it will be affecting everything in space and time the same... there will be no way for us to measure it...or know it....so...so what. Just so long as it does not make a mini black hole to swallow us all up.

Butch

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 25

RE: Hadron Collider - 9/9/2008 2:08:16 AM

seeksfemslave

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I believe this argument is the basis of the Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction, which for all I know is the
basis of Evolution as well !
If you decide to travel close to the speed of light the dimensions of your toes will change, but you wont know 'cos everything else will change at the same time.
Only those not travelling at the same speed would know if only they could catch you to find out.
Then they wouldnt be able to tell.
There's science for you.

This machine is going to generate a massive electric bill because of the
energy provided to run it.
In the Big Bang , that allegedly created the Hadron, where did that energy come from ?
Its not nice to ask scientists questions like this 'cos it spoils their breakfast.

Maybe Hadrons also created DNA , who knows?
So rather than a black hole we could end up with a new species appearing in Switzerland/Italy.
I think we ought to sit R Dorkins at collision point zero so he will be the first to know whether his beliefs
are true or not.
That should at least rearrange his molecules.

ps:I have for sale a bag of particles that have no mass, no electric/magnetic field and travel at the speed of light.
Perfect gift for a confused evolutionist.
No sensible offer refused.

pps: I believe that the particles are still in the bag so in that respect I am on the same ground as an evolutionist who believes NS is true.
Not going too farst am I ?

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 9/9/2008 2:13:11 AM >

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 26

RE: Hadron Collider - 9/9/2008 4:25:40 PM

thornhappy

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Hey seeks, Your toes wouldn't not appear to change dimension, because they're are traveling at the same speed as your eyeballs. The change in dimension would only be evident to us folks going "damn, look at that squished-up seeks fly by!"

thornhappy

< Message edited by thornhappy -- 9/9/2008 4:34:56 PM >

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Post #: 27

RE: Hadron Collider - 9/9/2008 4:54:22 PM

tychtyp

Posts: 45
Joined: 8/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber
As in the case of evolution: just a few weeks ago, we got the results from a 20 year long study, changing the enviromental conditions for various bacteria, and we WATCHED as evolution took place: the bacteria adapted to the new conditions. They EVOLVED so that they could survive and thrive in a less than optimum enviroment.
Take that Palin, and the rest of you nutcase Creationists!
My guess is and I am sure DomKen will agree with me that the "evolution" that you describe was in a fact a reduction of information in the DNA of the bacteria. So it didn't represent a tendency to a new species at all.
DNA, as complex a molecule as it is possible to imagine, in a bacterium , a life at almost its simplest and oldest and most successful.

So sprinkle that on your Alaskan Moose Pie hehehehe

Why do you bring up one of the most discredited anti-evolution arguments?

Mistakes happen when DNA is reproduced and recombined. New genes appear all the time.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Post #: 28

RE: Hadron Collider - 9/9/2008 4:54:36 PM

heartcream

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From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
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I heard they spent 8 billion dollars on this thing.

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(in reply to thornhappy)

Post #: 29

RE: Hadron Collider - 9/9/2008 5:01:09 PM

SingleRarity

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Oh wow! We studied this project a bit my final year of college when discussing String theory. This could change the world!

Daddy's Ballerina, e

(in reply to heartcream)

Post #: 30

RE: Hadron Collider - 9/9/2008 5:03:28 PM

Aneirin

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Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
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The problem with this experiment, knowing the possibilities that could happen, which could be nothing, through to any thing, do the twenty or so scientists have the right to change the world for all the others, what is it, roughly 6.2 billion people, who it seems don't appear to have a say, surely a momentous occaision such as this, we should all have an input?

Although I am a observer of science, I have a difficulty in it, that difficulty is, because it can be done, should it ? Many things can be done, but they aren't done for various reasons, but I feel that once scientists have revealed the possibilities that could happen following an experiment, should they go ahead and just do that experiment, and bollocks to all else, as if they seek only to prove and see their name in lights, forgetting all else, else why do they do it ?

Science is all wonderful, it is a help to mankind, but there reaches a point where science is a hindrance to mankind, and can even be the destructor of mankind.

All I am bothered about, is this thing that is happening on Wednesday at CERN, and the possibilities that could affect all of us, and we as a population of this planet appear not to have a say.

Like as not the thing will do nothing to our society, we will carry on as normal, a theory might be proved , but I am a firm believer of the random variable, in that what can go wrong often will.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to thornhappy)

Post #: 31

RE: Hadron Collider - 9/9/2008 7:37:18 PM

Vendaval

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Toes and eyeballs travel at the same speed? How is that possible?

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

Hey seeks, Your toes wouldn't not appear to change dimension, because they're are traveling at the same speed as your eyeballs. The change in dimension would only be evident to us folks going "damn, look at that squished-up seeks fly by!"

thornhappy

_____________________________

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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
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(in reply to thornhappy)

Post #: 32

RE: Hadron Collider - 9/9/2008 8:30:40 PM

bipolarber

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Only $8 billion? Wow, that's less than one month in Iraq... and it's to BUILD something, and not destroy a countries infrastructure, and/or kill 100,000+ civilians, and displace 6,000,000 of that countries population....

(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 33

RE: Hadron Collider - 9/9/2008 8:40:04 PM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Only $8 billion? Wow, that's less than one month in Iraq... and it's to BUILD something, and not destroy a countries infrastructure, and/or kill 100,000+ civilians, and displace 6,000,000 of that countries population....

Yea right...and as with all experiments of this type the first use of new discoveries will be new and deadlier weapons...lets see... the B-Bomb... B for Black Hole Bomb.

Butch

(in reply to bipolarber)

Post #: 34

RE: Hadron Collider - 9/9/2008 8:56:58 PM

Hippiekinkster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tychtyp
Why do you bring up one of the most discredited anti-evolution arguments?

Mistakes happen when DNA is reproduced and recombined. New genes appear all the time.

From what I can tell, he's a diehard creationist. Facts don't matter.

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(in reply to tychtyp)

Post #: 35

RE: Hadron Collider - 9/10/2008 1:13:39 AM

seeksfemslave

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Me no creationist.
In the sense that you are probably using the word anyway.
ie an anthropomorphic God created us and is concerned about our moral welfare.

thornhappy says
Hey seeks, Your toes wouldn't not appear to change dimension, because they're are traveling at the same speed as your eyeballs. The change in dimension would only be evident to us folks going "damn, look at that squished-up seeks fly by!"

That was my point MsT. The only way an observer can find out that the toes had changed is to also travel at the speed of light in which case they wouldn't be able to tell.
Would the light from hi speed toes ever reach either a stationary observer or even the speedsters eyeballs ?

Modern Science at its best.
geddit hehehehehe
I

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 36

RE: Hadron Collider - 9/10/2008 1:18:36 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
Would the light from hi speed toes ever reach either a stationary observer or even the speedsters eyeballs ?

Modern Science at its best.
geddit hehehehehe
I

Yes because the relationship between the said person and his/her toes is stationary.

Einstein told me that.

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(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Post #: 37

RE: Hadron Collider - 9/10/2008 1:39:54 AM

seeksfemslave

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Well Albert was wrong.
By the time the light from the speedsters toes had reached where the speedsters eyes were when the light was reflected from the toes they, the eyes, wouldnt be where they were when the the light was emitted.

Since space could be curved maybe the speedster could get a peek at his toes the second time around.
At least 26 billion years later. At which time the Universe wont exist.
I dont know the answer to that one.
Must leave now those beautiful people in white coats who do such a good job looking after me
say its time for my nap.
Cogito ergo sum.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 38

RE: Hadron Collider - 9/10/2008 2:26:04 AM

ScooterTrash

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According to theory, yes you could see your toes because the light relected by them is already traveling at the same speed as your eyes? That's the theory anyway...personally I suggest that the speed of light is a contant, similar to sound, and you would wisk away from the image before it could ever reach your eyes. Who knows...I would have to see it for myself (er, if I could)...lol.

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(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Post #: 39

RE: Hadron Collider - 9/10/2008 2:32:06 AM

ScooterTrash

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Update;
Large Hadron Collider is activated By Roger Highfield, Science Editor

Last Updated: 9:01am BST 10/09/2008

Scientists have switched on the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), the device they hope will unravel some of the remaining mysteries of the universe.
At 9.30 am local time (8.30 am British Summer Time), 300 feet below the Franco-Swiss border near Geneva, the most powerful particle accelerator ever built became fully operational.

...............The switch-on saw the first stream of subatomic particles - known as Hadrons - circulating in the tunnel. The first collisions are expected in around 30 days.
The LHC will produce beams seven times more energetic than any previous machine, and around 30 times more intense when it reaches its design performance, probably by 2010.

_____________________________

Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to heartcream)

Post #: 40

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