It isn't necessarily .dark. and it doesn't have to be painful (Full Version)

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RCdc -> It isn't necessarily .dark. and it doesn't have to be painful (8/29/2008 12:56:57 PM)

It is with kind permission I am repeating this post from another thread. 
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
No matter what the letters stand for, in practical application, when someone says they are into BDSM, they are referring to kinky sex that involves pain.  It is for this reason that I don't consider myself a member of the BDSM community.  I visit into foreign lands and sometimes learn something useful.  But for the most part, I'm a stranger in a strange land here.  Even at our MAST meeting (which in theory is all about Master/slave dynamics and not whipping), we are the ONLY couple attending that does not participate in SM.  The vast majority of the conversations are in SM topics.  The vast majority of the pride displayed by doms and subs alike is centred around who can hit who the hardest. 

This was, for me, a sit up and think moment.  It made me look back on all the events I had attended, the munches those big old events and I suddenly realised the image that people were projecting to others.
 
I’m submissive to Darcy.  We enjoy an authority transfer that is total and complete, yet I do not lose any power.  I am never intentionally broken.  Never hurt for the suffering it may cause.  I am not a pain slut, I enjoy pain, but no way could I endure endless hours of the sensation.  Darcy enjoys to touch and be touched.  It’s not some great spiritual connection, it’s a way to be ourselves and not hold back.  To yell, if desired.  To moan, to scratch, to cry and to wrap ourselves up in each other.
 
I am not expected to lie at the foot of the bed.  I am not expected not to curl in the corner for my sleep.  I am commanded to lay in his arms, to be in the vicinity to be held at his whim.
 
Bondage, doesn’t have to hurt.  It can be beautiful and pretty and fluffy.  It doesn’t even have to be physical – how many people have practised mental bondage and the glorious sensations it can produce?  That feeling of euphoria?  Of control?
 
Discipline can be challenging and rewarding – it doesn’t have to mean uncomfortably standing with ones nose to the wall for three hours.  It doesn’t mean learning to walk a straight line. 
 
We perpetuate this myth of darkness.  This voidless pit of debauchery.  But really, is it?  Or is it just stuff everyone imagines and a few realise?  If these .dark. practises are so dark and thrilling, why are they so common?  Why do we see the same posts and hear the same discussions at gatherings over and over and over…
 
If someone like leadership and others feel in a sense – an outsider or foreigner – what does this suggest?
Obviously, not everyone who is reading this participates in munches or public events, but you do participate here, and possibly elsewhere.  I’m not asking for the basic BDSM definitions or what people think BDSM stands for in the acronym itself, but rather what BDSM means to you as an individual and how you relate it to others in a social setting.   Why is love, compassion and cuddles becoming the ‘dark’ hidden side of BDSM Lovers?
 
the.dark.



Bstardsbitch -> RE: It isn't necessarily .dark. and it doesn't have to be painful (8/29/2008 1:10:13 PM)

WE, like you cuddle, hug, whisper sweet nothings to each other.  Sir likes to be touched, and often.We also participate in painful (well for me) activities. Discipline, for me, can be hard, harder than anything I've ever known at times.
Bondage I agree can be beautiful, and for us it often is, peaceful, serene, blissful and  yummy all at once.
BDSM means to me, He has the power, authority, control, however you describe it. He leads I follow, it really is that simple for me.
As for relating it to others in a social setting, most of our friends are in the "lifestyle", for want of a better word. Many comment on the fact that we are so tactile with each other. At public events I personally think, many people project what they think BDSM should be and can often make people feel inferior or an "outsider.
Does any of this actually make sense? lol



oceanwynds -> RE: It isn't necessarily .dark. and it doesn't have to be painful (8/29/2008 1:20:09 PM)

Dark, thank you for your post,  As i mentioned in other postings, i am so new to all of BDSM. My situation is not of the norm either from what i have gathered in chat rooms or posts, and for the first year and half i felt like an outsider. i take pride now in how i serve Sir. i learned to not compare myself with other submissives. i am also new to pain. When i met Sir i was55 years of age, and having to learn what Ds, Ms and BDSM was very confusing, let alone learning that i actually enjoyed pain. i felt like i cracked out of a shell when i was introduced to all of this, but many of times i wondered if i was just nuts. There is a lot more to our relationship then just the sessions. i had to take such tiny steps and stand back many of times to figure out what i was feeling and how to express it to Sir. Also reading through so many threads here has helped me a lot to not feel so totally strange or alone. i might not fit into what is considered the norm, but i do feel comforted in reading the posts. i hope i not getting off the topic.If did , please accept my apology.  Sir has conditioned me to use mental bondage many of times, and it is euphoriac.
Thank you again for your post.
blessings
oceanwynds



Mercnbeth -> RE: It isn't necessarily .dark. and it doesn't have to be painful (8/29/2008 1:20:16 PM)

in this slave's opinion, BDSM means many things to many people.  for us, it is cuddles and kisses...plus the whips and chains...it isn't an either/or.
 
some folks only begin to view themselves as foreigners/outsiders when they don't view themselves as the same as the majority, which doesn't make any sense to this slave because we are ALL unique in the what, where, how, when and why we do what we do and are who we are.
 
we attend a munch quite regularly and there have been times when there are 40 or so at the munch, and this slave is the only one who identifies as slave, the only one there who is a red-head, etc.  it never makes her feel as if she is an outsider, because everyone in attendance could pick something out about themselves that make them the "only one" in any small gathering of folk who has or hasn't had that particular experience or shares that same exact viewpoint.
 
this slave enjoys diversity/individuality very much and celebrates it as often as possible!!!



IvyMorgan -> RE: It isn't necessarily .dark. and it doesn't have to be painful (8/29/2008 1:24:03 PM)

To me, BDSM is *a* way of expressing my sexuality.  It's a feeling of safety, of comfortable-ness, of being in the right place, now, doing what I'm *supposed* to be doing (note: this does not mean following orders, more of a big cosmic grand plan idea that I've found my niche in).  BDSM makes my head go calm and still.

I tend not to say "BDSM", I tend to say "kink".  Purely because I find that more expressive, to me, about what it is that I get up to in my spare time/bedroom/club.

Rarely to me, is bondage painful.  Rarely are blades/electro painful.  I do these things (granted, I am not an electro fan, but that doesn't make it *painful*) because they are fun, because I like the sensations, because they create the stillness in my head.

I love pain, I love impact play, and being hit with stuff, hard.  I see hitty things that I know have made other people, harder/edgier people than me, go "erm no" and go "ooo" (I never said I was sensible.)  But, I like the soft, floaty sensation things too.  I play without pain just as well as I play with it.  I tend to do pain more in public because the enrgy for me flows better, but that's only been my experience to date and could change.  When I'm at "home"... it's all about sensation; knives, rope, E-stim, suction cups, acupressure etc.

I don't always feel like I fit in.  Rarely do I find someone who gets where I'm coming from wrt hypno work (about as far from "painful" as you can possibly get, ime, but only applied to WIIT *I* D with it).  I don't always feel I fit in in a club.  I went to Subversion last month, and watched a few very heavy scenes, and didn't feel I fit in at all.  A few hours later I was floating in my own "OMFG what is he doing to her, why is she screaming like that/not moving" scene, and I fit in just fine.  The feelings are transitory.  I don't always feel I fit in during a conversation, when I have experiences behind me that my age would make people question, I make references and have to check myself... I'm not sure anyone fits in to any community 100% of the time.  Part of the joyful diversity that is our communities.

To the munch/demo comment, I think we demo S&M a lot because it's *easy* to do.  I spent about half a year wondering how on earth I would do a hypno demo... turns out, it doesn't work in a demo, it's not showy, jazzy, exciting to watch... it does work in a workshop (come to LAM to see it, date pending!)  So, whilst it *is* possible to do a demo about something non-S&M (for example, Leather Family incarceration demo last CMunch) it's harder than doing a "look, here's a single tail and here's how you use it" and oftentimes, unless there is a backstory it's hard to retain interest.

Even at kinkfest, the number of people who walked out of the pet play workshop I was in was about half.  It's possible there (or somewhere similar) to do nonSM workshops because you have a large number of people to pull your 20 viewers from.  If you've got 400 odd people wandering about, chances are you'll get 30 of them to listen to a talk on psychology.  If all you have is the 30 people at your munch, and you need them to come back next month so you can pay for your space and keep running... you're going to do things to keep them entertained and unless there is the demand, you won't get esoteric philosophical discussions on power exhange and the psychology of WIITWD.

I think I've rambled around that point enough, I hope you get what I'm trying to say, even if I'm saying it badly.



califsue -> RE: It isn't necessarily .dark. and it doesn't have to be painful (8/29/2008 1:55:38 PM)

I am relatively new and certainly my relationship with Master is still new. I don't feel like it is dark, but I haven't attended munches or public events and so I can't say how I might feel about public gatherings. I know for me that having a TPE, being Master's slave and what that means to Us and the mental/emotional connection is what is so fulfilling to me at this time.



RCdc -> RE: It isn't necessarily .dark. and it doesn't have to be painful (8/29/2008 1:56:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan
To the munch/demo comment, I think we demo S&M a lot because it's *easy* to do.  I spent about half a year wondering how on earth I would do a hypno demo... turns out, it doesn't work in a demo, it's not showy, jazzy, exciting to watch... it does work in a workshop (come to LAM to see it, date pending!)  So, whilst it *is* possible to do a demo about something non-S&M (for example, Leather Family incarceration demo last CMunch) it's harder than doing a "look, here's a single tail and here's how you use it" and oftentimes, unless there is a backstory it's hard to retain interest.


But is it a cycle that demos have got into, rather than the show?  If I am wanting to learn something, I could personally do without all the show and jazz.  If I want that, I watch a scene or whats happening on the stage presentation.  If I attend a demo or a workshop, I don't need clever lighting and sparkles to keep me focused.  Is that a reason why certain people aren't attending and why you see the same old faces - because no one is catering to the non showy, monogamous, long term relationship, non performing couples - who just want to learn for themselves?  Which should come first - chicken or egg?  Are people more concerned on the amount of people - is it quantity ?

quote:

Even at kinkfest, the number of people who walked out of the pet play workshop I was in was about half.  It's possible there (or somewhere similar) to do nonSM workshops because you have a large number of people to pull your 20 viewers from.  If you've got 400 odd people wandering about, chances are you'll get 30 of them to listen to a talk on psychology.  If all you have is the 30 people at your munch, and you need them to come back next month so you can pay for your space and keep running... you're going to do things to keep them entertained and unless there is the demand, you won't get esoteric philosophical discussions on power exhange and the psychology of WIITWD.


For a start, I absolutely adored the pet demo at KF.   It totally rocked and personally I find that is exactly the kind of demo that needs to be more accessable for people.  Yes people did leave, but then they do tend to wander out and to be honest I found there to be far more questions and mixed participation than there was in say, the rope demo in which there was much more silence when it came to the Q&A.  I definately found the people in the pet demo to be far more social.
 
I have to admit to being confused by your comment on munches.  I am not an advocate of demos or talks at munches personally.  It makes them far more inaccessable for people to get involved in the local scene and not particularly encouraging for new people.  I have never held or attended a munch which was paid for, nor one that has demos in a public setting - I wouldn't view those as a munch at all.  Munches are social settings, not a time to teach - other than by example.  Demos and munches are seperate entities.
 
*edit to ad - On reflection, I am going to assume CMunch being an influence on your thoughs about munches.  Personally - and maybe this will not make me many friends but meh - but I find it a misleading 'name'.  At least on IC it does openly advertise that it isn't like a standard munch because it does advertise itself as a mini fet fair.  But the majority of munches do not have the facilities that CMunch does.

 
the.dark.



RCdc -> RE: It isn't necessarily .dark. and it doesn't have to be painful (8/29/2008 2:09:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bstardsbitch

WE, like you cuddle, hug, whisper sweet nothings to each other.  Sir likes to be touched, and often.We also participate in painful (well for me) activities. Discipline, for me, can be hard, harder than anything I've ever known at times.
Bondage I agree can be beautiful, and for us it often is, peaceful, serene, blissful and  yummy all at once.
BDSM means to me, He has the power, authority, control, however you describe it. He leads I follow, it really is that simple for me.
As for relating it to others in a social setting, most of our friends are in the "lifestyle", for want of a better word. Many comment on the fact that we are so tactile with each other. At public events I personally think, many people project what they think BDSM should be and can often make people feel inferior or an "outsider.
Does any of this actually make sense? lol



Yes, total sense.  I believe you are onto something... I would just go a step further and say that they are projecting what they believe other people think that BDSM should be.
 
Meh.  I am known to be wrong though.[:D]
 
the.dark.



RCdc -> RE: It isn't necessarily .dark. and it doesn't have to be painful (8/29/2008 2:11:31 PM)

Don't have to apologies oceanwynds - ya rock for posting.  Thank you.
 
the.dark.



RCdc -> RE: It isn't necessarily .dark. and it doesn't have to be painful (8/29/2008 2:15:16 PM)

Hello beth. Big thanks to you for responding.
 
I have to wonder/ask whether your activities and length of time you have been 'in the scene' has something to do with your comfortable stance.  I also question the munch you attend.  You might be really blessed to have a great munch and organisers who make an effort for it not to become too segregated.  Cliches will always exist, but if you have a good team behind it, they can be bearly noticable.
 
the.dark.



RCdc -> RE: It isn't necessarily .dark. and it doesn't have to be painful (8/29/2008 2:22:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: califsue

I am relatively new and certainly my relationship with Master is still new. I don't feel like it is dark, but I haven't attended munches or public events and so I can't say how I might feel about public gatherings. I know for me that having a TPE, being Master's slave and what that means to Us and the mental/emotional connection is what is so fulfilling to me at this time.


Thank you for injecting your thoughts sue.  Do you ever think you might attend a public event, or do you get put off by anything you might read etc?  Or is your Master and yourself not really public people? 
 
the.dark.



slaveluci -> RE: It isn't necessarily .dark. and it doesn't have to be painful (8/29/2008 2:39:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
I’m not asking for the basic BDSM definitions or what people think BDSM stands for in the acronym itself, but rather what BDSM means to you as an individual and how you relate it to others in a social setting

What BDSM means to us as individuals:
We definitely focus more on the D/s aspect than the b/d and s/m parts.  He is dominant and I am submissive to Him.  We live in a consensual M/s relationship as defined by us and no other.  Our views of what BDSM is/should be for us mesh perfectly, we share common goals and desires and the few limits we have set mutually work well for the both of us.

How do we relate it to others in a social setting?: 
Well, we don't enter into social settings such as munches and public play parties where everyone else there is supposedly doing "what we do" or sharing some similar "lifestyle."  The only social settings we enter into are the common everyday ones as most everyone else in society - work, shopping, going out to dinner, family gatherings, etc.  We relate to each other in those settings as we do in private with a few small differences, of course.  We appear to be a very traditional couple in which I honor and respect Him, defer to Him, serve Him.  I don't have to be naked, in chains or literally on my knees or partaking in some kinky activity to be serving as His slave in all ways as He desires, even publicly.  Around my family, there's nothing odd for me to "wait on Him" by serving Him drinks, fixing His plate, etc. and I do as much of that as possible in public restaurants as well.  My coworkers and His know that He is "master of the house"[;)] and that He enjoys being "waited on" by me and that He expects it and receives it and that I enjoy it as much as He does.  There are really no barriers to how we relate to each other in public.  Except for being fully clothed and Him not doing as many physical things to me as He'd like, we interact in public much the same as we do at home.  Lots of subtle, D/s stuff going on......................luci 



DelightnDevotion -> RE: It isn't necessarily .dark. and it doesn't have to be painful (8/29/2008 2:42:39 PM)

There is absolutely nothing dark or painful about my relationship with my Dom.  It is a relationship where he has all the power and control--which he exercises through mental, emotional and sexual means.  We don't do pain play--unless you count the mental anguish I sometimes go through when he's requiring me to face and deal with a self-limiting thought or behavior pattern I have. 

We do tend to be the "odd ducks" when it comes to comparing ourselves to other couples in the local community.  But that's okay--It works for us and satisfies our wants and needs. My days of conforming my life to satisfy the popular majority are long over with.  Been there, done that, paid the price.  Blech!




colouredin -> RE: It isn't necessarily .dark. and it doesn't have to be painful (8/29/2008 2:49:35 PM)

I mean i basically want to repost my other post, to me BDSM or i guess more specifically D/s for me isnt dark and its not weird its like LA said in another post the more recently that you have discovered the lifestyle or however you want to put it, the easier it is. I didnt feel ashamed or that it was weird i didnt have to hide or do anything hidden, BDSM became something to 'do' in my spare time, in terms of events and stuff, i didnt have to change anything or behave any differant so to me its just kinda me it wasnt as dramatic as many people describe i stumbled into it i didnt look for it.

Initially i of course wanted to fit in and pain is often referanced as in trinsic to submission, you cant be a sub unless you like pain. I dont like pain and that embaressed me at first now im open on it, talking about hitting me doesnt turn me on the action of it does nothing for me. Also due to going through a glass door makes bondage hard for me, but still i consider myself to fall under the BDSM umbrella because at the end of the day BDSM, D/S, M/s, Gorean whatever words you ascribe to they are what you make them, you cant constantly pretend and fit in eventually you admit defeat and enjoy what you enjoy do whatever fullfills you most, and that will be differant for EVERYONE. Its just nice to have a word for it i guess



ravenslaveheart -> RE: It isn't necessarily .dark. and it doesn't have to be painful (8/29/2008 2:53:49 PM)

i see S&M and D/s as yin and yang. when it's right, each person is in harmony with the dark and light side of themselves, and each is content with the light and dark sides of the other.

i do love playing dark and scary, having the scene take my breath away like a huge roller coaster ... yet the most memorable scenes i've been in have had quite a lot of laughter, fumbling and silliness. there's nothing dark about a submissive with her Dom's underwear on her head, with him proclaiming proudly, "because I CAN!"



colouredin -> RE: It isn't necessarily .dark. and it doesn't have to be painful (8/29/2008 2:57:08 PM)

not being 'dark' doesnt instantly mean that they cant take your breath away just differant things do tha tto differant people



IvyMorgan -> RE: It isn't necessarily .dark. and it doesn't have to be painful (8/29/2008 3:10:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan
To the munch/demo comment, I think we demo S&M a lot because it's *easy* to do.  I spent about half a year wondering how on earth I would do a hypno demo... turns out, it doesn't work in a demo, it's not showy, jazzy, exciting to watch... it does work in a workshop (come to LAM to see it, date pending!)  So, whilst it *is* possible to do a demo about something non-S&M (for example, Leather Family incarceration demo last CMunch) it's harder than doing a "look, here's a single tail and here's how you use it" and oftentimes, unless there is a backstory it's hard to retain interest.


But is it a cycle that demos have got into, rather than the show?  If I am wanting to learn something, I could personally do without all the show and jazz.  If I want that, I watch a scene or whats happening on the stage presentation.  If I attend a demo or a workshop, I don't need clever lighting and sparkles to keep me focused.  Is that a reason why certain people aren't attending and why you see the same old faces - because no one is catering to the non showy, monogamous, long term relationship, non performing couples - who just want to learn for themselves?  Which should come first - chicken or egg?  Are people more concerned on the amount of people - is it quantity ?
I guess it depends on what it is that the people attending the demo want to learn.  What is going to draw the crowds.  Sadly, yes, it is sometimes about bums on seats (and entrance fee in the coffer) as, if people don't show, there is no money and the event dies.  Or, if people don't show, the organisers wonder "why bother" and the event dies.
 
I agree, when learning, we don't all need lights and sparkles, but, they do make it interesting for people who wouldn't necessarily have been interested, and they do get people to *watch*.  They are popular.
 
I'm not sure why certain people don't attend demos/munches/workshops.  I know my only regular haunt is CMunch, and that's cos I like the people up there and have made friends (frequently, the demos make me faint, I certainly don't go up for that experience, though they are interesting before I lose coherence.)
 
I would guess some people are more private and wouldn't go regardless of the demo content, some people aren't interested in the demos because of their nature (but this doesn't explain why they don't go to munches), some people like what they do in private and don't want to mingle.
 
At the end of the day, you can't be everything to everyone, and so you have to pick an audience.  At something like LAM, you have options.  There's the no glitter workshop which will discuss something for the "long term want to learn on own share knowledge" type you referred to, there's the stage show for the glitzy crowd pulling demo, and there's all the stalls and stuff to (hopefully) keep the doors open and the show on the road.  At something smaller, you don't have the same level of "option".

quote:

quote:

Even at kinkfest, the number of people who walked out of the pet play workshop I was in was about half.  It's possible there (or somewhere similar) to do nonSM workshops because you have a large number of people to pull your 20 viewers from.  If you've got 400 odd people wandering about, chances are you'll get 30 of them to listen to a talk on psychology.  If all you have is the 30 people at your munch, and you need them to come back next month so you can pay for your space and keep running... you're going to do things to keep them entertained and unless there is the demand, you won't get esoteric philosophical discussions on power exhange and the psychology of WIITWD.


For a start, I absolutely adored the pet demo at KF.   It totally rocked and personally I find that is exactly the kind of demo that needs to be more accessable for people. 

I'm going to interject another opinion and say that workshop was dire.  If I hadn't had to stay to run it, I would have walked out.  It was poorly delivered, dull, SirGuy, though a lovely man, can't deliver a speah to save his life... yes there was a good Q&A, but you had to still be awake, and care, to engage in it.  As someone who'd gone in will little interest in the subject, he didn't fan the spark at all, merely stomped on it.

Different strokes for different folks, I'm not saying he needed more showbiz flair, just that, I thought the demo was awful.
 
quote:

I have to admit to being confused by your comment on munches.  I am not an advocate of demos or talks at munches personally.  It makes them far more inaccessable for people to get involved in the local scene and not particularly encouraging for new people.  I have never held or attended a munch which was paid for, nor one that has demos in a public setting - I wouldn't view those as a munch at all.  Munches are social settings, not a time to teach - other than by example.  Demos and munches are seperate entities.
 
*edit to ad - On reflection, I am going to assume CMunch being an influence on your thoughs about munches.  Personally - and maybe this will not make me many friends but meh - but I find it a misleading 'name'.  At least on IC it does openly advertise that it isn't like a standard munch because it does advertise itself as a mini fet fair.  But the majority of munches do not have the facilities that CMunch does.

 
the.dark.
Ah, yes, well, oops on the munch point.  I've tried to use "demo" and "munch" in the more commonly accepted sense from here on out.
 
Secondly, I can't see anyone stopping liking you on the basis of a querey/comment/critique of an event name.  I'm sure no-one is that shallow *smiles*
 
Thirdly, yes, most munches are in pubs/cafes and involve people sitting around and nattering.  With that in mind, I've had hypno work demo-d at a munch.  Not the nice (boring to look at) fluffy stuff I get up to, but the flash-y showbiz "look, I'm going to drop you into a trance "NOW" and you will obey" stuff.  It makes me giggle.  I've also seen rope demo-d at a munch, simple ties, hair bondage, stuff like that.  No-one was suspended from the pub ceiling, more's the pity.
 
So, back to the "why only S&M" at munches, and here's where I'm going to not make many friends.  People like to chest thump.  They like to be seen as something great and wonderful.  Sitting in a munch explaining how you have a very nice, quiet, peaceful, power-exchange relationship with you wife, and it's been going on for umpteen years, and you love each other very much etc... doesn't have the same "wow" factor in terms of "how uber am I" that "and last week, I whipped this girl with a single tail, and I'm so amazing at doing that, she, like, orgasmed all the time".  People talk about S&M because it makes them seem great and inflates their ego in a way that the "long term relationship monogamy philosophy psychology" discussion just doesn't do.
 
I don't dispute that this excludes people from the scene who do want to engage in that sort of discussion.  I know from time to time I am one of those people (would have loved to have gone to the psychology talks at KF, for example).  I'm not one to sit in public and share with strangers how amazingly I play (not that I don't play in a most amazing way, mind you, for I am uber and wonderful, and the merest suggestion that they might come into contact with my crop makes subs and doms alike wither into jelly like goo).  Like I said previously, I go to the munches/events I do because I have friends going, not to watch demos or have indepth discussions, they are tangents, my main goal is to see my far flung geographically friends.
 
I think there has to be a balance, between satisfying everyone, and, as repetative as it sounds, if you think there is something missing from your local scene, do something about it and fill the gap.  Start a discussion group, that meets once a month purely to discuss a given topic, invite a speaker in, have a book club one month after all reading the same text...  If you want something, go out and make it happen.
 
You won't stop the chest beaters, to showing off-ers, the people who want to discuss the finer points of how to use a cane, the people who want the big flashy edge play demos... they have their niche, if it's not yours, carve your own.



E2Sweet -> RE: It isn't necessarily .dark. and it doesn't have to be painful (8/29/2008 3:10:34 PM)

I don't equate BDSM with "kinky sex that involves pain". BDSM, to me, has a much more complex description. Its more the exploration and indulgence of any of (or any combination of) the letters that makes up the acornym, plus the exploration of discipline, and sexual and sensual power one encounters within that indulgence... Yea, that's a bit of a mouthful, but that resonates more with me.

What Leadership describes in the quoted post regarding group events is all too common in these modern times. It seems like just about everything is fodder for human competition. But, I just don't see the wisdom in taking such a large construct such as like BDSM, with all its inherent potential for various methods and avenues of enjoyment it incorporates, and reducing it to something as simple and sterile as a human competition. It may well be what works for many others, and they do have every right to do as they please, but its not the way I embrace or practice BDSM by any stretch. Personally, I much prefer indulging and exploring for the sake of pure enjoyment and learning, rather than competing or performing in the spirit of one-upsmanship.

Perhaps I'm over-simplifying the point of the OP, but my view on this is from my own experiences as well as my current wants and desires...and its been a while. [;)]

Edited to add a point...



kiwisub12 -> RE: It isn't necessarily .dark. and it doesn't have to be painful (8/29/2008 3:13:12 PM)

I agree that there is a perception that bdsm is all dark and  painful.
I'm thinking maybe the problem is that most often what we see of other bdsm people at parties and munches - where there is a public image to maintain. We tend not to see people in their own homes, living their lives as "just" regular people.  I know for my Sir and i the knowledge that people are watching changes how we play. My Sir tends to be a bit of a showoff, and likes people to watch him scene.  And i as his "subject" try desperately not to let him down.

And at play parties, if you aren't  into scening, then what is there to do to show off your relationship?  Talk about how submissive your sub is? The thing is, is that there is no physical way to show or "prove" your relationship if you aren't into pain or scening. Therefore, the people who aren't into a pain relationship tend to take a backseat in public - their relationship isn't as showy, so i think people may not realise how many d/s relationships there really are, as apposed to those that incorporate pain play.

Its more fun to talk about how much pain you can take , than to talk about how you faced and conquered a fear because your dom ordered you to. 



completenz -> RE: It isn't necessarily .dark. and it doesn't have to be painful (8/29/2008 3:27:53 PM)

thankyou so much for posting this
Neither of us have ever known a relationship like the one we have. It is so loving and so passionate, we really cant get enough of each other. Yes, it is a D/s relationship but there is nothing dark about it, it is based on love.
Now we know that is not to everyones taste, but thats ok with us. It does mean than we often feel on the outside looking in though....
We have joined a couple of local munch groups and we enjoy the munch enviroment. We, however, are always being pressured to attend their play parties. When we explain that we dont play in public they always look at us as though we are from another planet and precede to try and change our minds. We are a loving monogamous couple that are not interested in sharing or playing with an audience or being part of an audience. Every workshop that is scheduled locally is followed by the usual play party and thus we dont go to them, even though the topic may interest us. We get so tired of saying the same thing again and again, it would be really cool if they would just accept us as we are, not try and change us.
We dont contribute a great deal to the boards here, by the time we get to the threads someone else has already said what we would have ( the joys of living on the other side of the world!!) Just wanted to say, this time, that we are grateful to people like you who make postings like this, maybe we aint that strange after all[:)]
C & c



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