RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially (Full Version)

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kiwisub12 -> RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially (8/28/2008 2:20:41 PM)

I was raised in the deep south - the really deep south - New Zealand - and i was raised to address all adults as "Mr" or "Mrs".
It took me a long time to get used to calling adults by their first names - i never felt old enough - lol.

Since then i moved to Arkansas, and used "Sir" or "Ma'am" - and taught my kids the same thing. To me it is an easy way of addressing someone politely, especially when i may not know their name. It sucessfully avoids showing up my bad memory. [;)]

As for Siring or Ma'aming dom/inas - i am a polite person, so use these terms. I don't see it as confering any special respect or signifigance - but if someone likes to be called that, then i will do my best to accomadate them. Now - if their chosen term was profane, i would have to give them the go-by - because i just hate swearing.



CreativeDominant -> RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially (8/28/2008 3:03:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Now what really gets under my skin are the submissives who are so hell bent on never addressing a dominant who doesn't own them as Sir that they address my or other dominants by their last name only.


mistoferin... I'm with you there, I always "Sir" a Dominant who is *over* a friend of mine, even if i dislike him personally.  I respect that they've assumed responsibility for the sub, and my friend loves or respects them, and I won't disrespect my friends choices by disrespecting the position of her partner. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

The age of my Boss has nothing to do with it. My boss is a Sir because he is my boss.


Dynomar.. Nods, That's His feeling as well.  But I know he completly loathes the guy, so why feign respect?  He sure wouldn't take that from ME.   And I wouldn't expect him to.

(course, I know the workplace is a different animal. just sayin')


Because his boss and his good will...loathed or not...is ultimately responsible for your husband receiving a paycheck?  You called it right...the workplace IS a different animal.  I know there are people who work for my brother who don't like him BUT they also know that, ultimately, it is his good will towards them that keeps them receiving a paycheck.  Show him that they dislike him or don't respect him, despite what he has done to get to his position, and they won't have to worry about "feigning" respect anymore...because they won't be at the job to do so.

Your dynamic with him is completely different than the one he shares with his boss.  You see him as your Master, the one who you have given over control of certain aspects of your life to.  While he may not have "given" control of any aspect of his life over to his boss, in one respect...the most important one...he has given control of an important part of his financial life over to the company and, in turn, the one the company puts over him.

And mist...I agree with you.  I've worked hard to get to where I am at.  I spent 4 years in the service and 6 years in school and lost 1 marriage along the way to become a doctor.  That is why it grates when someone calls my office and addresses me as Mr. _________.  I am NOT Mr. __________ and haven't been for 25 years.  I am Dr. _________.  Same way with a submissive, especially one I do not know.  I don't want Sir out of respect, I want it out of courtesy.  If you do not know me, why would you think you have the right to call me by my first name or to insist on it?  If I don't like my patients doing it either when they don't me or even after they've come to know me...why would I like you doing it?  Now, once you come to know me and I say I prefer my name to be used until I have earned your respect in the field of D/s BDSM such that you feel like addressing me as "Sir" out of respect, fine.



KatyLied -> RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially (8/28/2008 3:36:50 PM)

I will not Sir someone just because he self-identifies as dominant.



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially (8/28/2008 3:39:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I will not Sir someone just because he self-identifies as dominant.


But will you "sir" someone because it is the courteous and well-mannered thing to do, under the circumstances???

Calla Firestorm



KatyLied -> RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially (8/28/2008 3:43:00 PM)

No, I don't "sir" or "m'am" people.  A simple "yes, please" or "no thank you" is good enough in my crowd.



mbes -> RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially (8/28/2008 3:47:13 PM)

I do use the words "sir" and "ma'am" quite often, generally following a "thank you" or "you're welcome". It's fast, and it assures that I don't call someone by the wrong name. I'm prone to that. [:D]
However, within the bdsm usage, anyone who would like me to call him sir can begin by calling me ma'am.
The above rule is, of course, irrelevant to one who owns me.



opposingtwilight -> RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially (8/28/2008 3:48:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

I was raised in the deep south - the really deep south - New Zealand - and i was raised to address all adults as "Mr" or "Mrs".
It took me a long time to get used to calling adults by their first names - i never felt old enough - lol.



I have the same problem ...



leadership527 -> RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially (8/28/2008 3:49:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL:  CreativeDominant
And mist...I agree with you.  I've worked hard to get to where I am at.  I spent 4 years in the service and 6 years in school and lost 1 marriage along the way to become a doctor.  That is why it grates when someone calls my office and addresses me as Mr. _________.  I am NOT Mr. __________ and haven't been for 25 years.  I am Dr. _________.  Same way with a submissive, especially one I do not know.  I don't want Sir out of respect, I want it out of courtesy.  If you do not know me, why would you think you have the right to call me by my first name or to insist on it?  If I don't like my patients doing it either when they don't me or even after they've come to know me...why would I like you doing it?  Now, once you come to know me and I say I prefer my name to be used until I have earned your respect in the field of D/s BDSM such that you feel like addressing me as "Sir" out of respect, fine.

WOW!  For the first time I think I finally understand the other side of this debate.  It has never once occurred to me that referring to someone who is roughly my social peer by their first name would be an insult.  I wasn't raised that way and, apparently, I never participated in any cultural groups in which that'd be the norm.  The only divide like that I have ever understood is chidlren refer to adults by Mr./Mrs./Miss (and even then, where I live it's almost guaranteed the next thing out of the adult's mouth is going to be "You can call me Roger honey..."  No wonder this debate has never gotten resolved.  You have those who's deap seated cultural values say that it is discourteous and arrogant to use a first name (*blinks again as he tries to assimilate that concept*).  Then you have other's who see it as discourteous and arrogant to demand an honorific.  I'm guessing this is just going to forever be one of those "try to get along as best we can" sorts of things.



littlewonder -> RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially (8/28/2008 3:49:52 PM)

I've never really thought about it so I guess it doesn't bother me. They're just using common courtesy in a polite society.



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially (8/28/2008 3:53:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

WOW!  For the first time I think I finally understand the other side of this debate.  It has never once occurred to me that referring to someone who is roughly my social peer by their first name would be an insult.  I wasn't raised that way and, apparently, I never participated in any cultural groups in which that'd be the norm.  The only divide like that I have ever understood is chidlren refer to adults by Mr./Mrs./Miss (and even then, where I live it's almost guaranteed the next thing out of the adult's mouth is going to be "You can call me Roger honey..."  No wonder this debate has never gotten resolved.  You have those who's deap seated cultural values say that it is discourteous and arrogant to use a first name (*blinks again as he tries to assimilate that concept*).  Then you have other's who see it as discourteous and arrogant to demand an honorific.  I'm guessing this is just going to forever be one of those "try to get along as best we can" sorts of things.


Part of me is now wondering if some of the debate about "protocol/no protocol" comes from the same roots as where one learned one's particular set of "common courtesies".

Just wondering...

Calla



KatyLied -> RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially (8/28/2008 4:00:51 PM)

I don't mind protocol within a relationship.  But I won't do automatic knee bends merely because someone sits on the other side of the kneel.  In my opinion, anyone can call himself a Master/Dominant, but that means little to me in real life.



MidMichCowboy -> RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially (8/28/2008 4:15:13 PM)

I was raised out west. I was taught by my mother to address women as ma'am and men as sir. It was courtesy. Now, I don't call my boss sir, I call him Ed. Even the top management and doctors, once I know them, I address by their first name. I do call the doc's Doctor in front of patients. That is for patients sake. I know these folks and if I called them sir or Doctor, they would have a heart attack.

For myself, I do not demand that anyone call me anything. I was taught that any title was to be earned. If a woman calls me Sir or Master before she knows me, I don't feel it is right. Of course, I don't do much with protocols and such. I don't need that. One of the best things, I was called by a special lady was Papa (what my kids call me). Now that, the way she said it, did make an impression on me.



mistoferin -> RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially (8/28/2008 4:20:21 PM)

Sir doesn't expect anyone to call him Master even though he introduces himself as Master Sage. He really doesn't even expect people to call him Sir, although I can't understand for the life of me why anyone would think they were deferring to him by saying "excuse me, Sir" or "thank you, Sir". He doesn't even mind it when they call him by his first name. But it is REALLY irritating when a submissive at a munch is trying to get his attention for something and they holler out "Hey Sage!". As far as I'm concerned that is totally DIS-respectful.



kiwisub12 -> RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially (8/28/2008 4:27:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


And mist...I agree with you.  I've worked hard to get to where I am at.  I spent 4 years in the service and 6 years in school and lost 1 marriage along the way to become a doctor.  That is why it grates when someone calls my office and addresses me as Mr. _________.  I am NOT Mr. __________ and haven't been for 25 years.  I am Dr. _________.  Same way with a submissive, especially one I do not know.  I don't want Sir out of respect, I want it out of courtesy.  If you do not know me, why would you think you have the right to call me by my first name or to insist on it?  If I don't like my patients doing it either when they don't me or even after they've come to know me...why would I like you doing it?  Now, once you come to know me and I say I prefer my name to be used until I have earned your respect in the field of D/s BDSM such that you feel like addressing me as "Sir" out of respect, fine.




Thats really interesting, because when i  worked in New Zealand, if i was addressing a surgeon as "Dr", i would be reprimanded, and told the correct address is "Mr".

And i would have thought that if i was addressing you in a public forum ie party, internet, we would be as equals - person to person, rather than doctor to joe public/patient. As an equal i would address you as introduced - and i rather doubt you would be introduced in this setting as "Dr. _______ .   And yes, if you were introduced as Dr ____, i would probably call you by your title, but that is because i have been brainwashed by years of hospital indoctrination. [:)].






CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially (8/28/2008 4:31:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Sir doesn't expect anyone to call him Master even though he introduces himself as Master Sage. He really doesn't even expect people to call him Sir, although I can't understand for the life of me why anyone would think they were deferring to him by saying "excuse me, Sir" or "thank you, Sir". He doesn't even mind it when they call him by his first name. But it is REALLY irritating when a submissive at a munch is trying to get his attention for something and they holler out "Hey Sage!". As far as I'm concerned that is totally DIS-respectful.



Heck, I consider hollering across a room full of people to be disrespectful and rude (not just to the person being addressed, but to all the people holding conversations in-between). I was taught that if you can't get a person's attention in a normal tone of voice, the proper method of getting that person's attention is to go to where they are, wait for a break in the conversation, and then say "Excuse me (to the group)... so-and-so (using the mannerly address suitable to the occasion), can you join us over there for a moment?"

*shrugs*
Calla Firestorm



leadership527 -> RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially (8/28/2008 4:33:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL:  mistoferin
But it is REALLY irritating when a submissive at a munch is trying to get his attention for something and they holler out "Hey Sage!". As far as I'm concerned that is totally DIS-respectful.

Again, how fascinating.  That never in a zillion years would've occurred to me as disrespectful.  This has been an enormously helpful thread to me.  I like to think of myself as flexible and I'd prefer to have the strength to meet others more than half way.  This is certainly going to modify how I see using titles, both in the BDSM world and otherwise.  Good god, I had never intended to offend anyone.  At least to my way of thinking, only a handful of immature and insecure semi-adults might actually be offended and I honestly thought it better that they grow up than be coddled.  This thread has definitely caused a major overhaul in my thinking on the topic.



SoulPiercer -> RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially (8/28/2008 4:39:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

I was going to reply to the "Don't call me Sir" thread, but I realised I was going to de-rail the discussion a bit, so brought this slant to a new thread.

My hubby/Dom did 20 years army enlisted, and to call him "Sir" bothers him.   Even so,  He and Master "Sir" each other, and it works somehow. I think it's respecting each others position within our dynamic.

BUT!  It drives me crazy to hear Master call his 30 year old boss "Sir".  He does it out of the southern tradition, but every time I hear it, I cringe.  In my mind, he might as well kneel for the kid.   Seems He has debased himself for someone undeserving. Completly effs up my headspace. 

When He uses it to other Dominants, it's appropriate in that setting, it's a peer-peer thing..  When He uses it in stores and restaurants, it's appropriate in that setting, but only because we're in the South now. Back home in Seattle, I'd have told him he was out of step with social norms.

So.. question is:  How do you feel about your big-D person using Sir or Maam?  I notice I have varied reactions to it, depending on the setting.

P.S.  
Notice on any of those cops shows, guy has spent 4 hours dealing dope on the corner, but when arrested, he's SIR-ing like crazy as they put the cuffs on.  Does this somehow imply he's just now discovered respect for the law? 


I wasn't raised in the south, I was raised by a Marine. In the Corps everyone of higher rank is Sir, including women. I was in the Army myself where enlisted men say "Don't call me Sir.. I work for a living." Even so .. when someone calls me Sir .. it doesn't bother me.

Addressing someone as Sir or Ma'am is how I was raised. Besides it sounds a lot better than saying, "Yes, dude" or "No, chick".

P.S. - Sir-ing five-o while they are handcuffing you increases the odds that you'll make it to the lock up alive, or at least with a few less bruises.



d1ll1gaf -> RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially (8/28/2008 9:15:29 PM)

I have always viewed the "sir" title as a respectful way to address someone in a position of authority. In the BDSM community I actualy don't like being addressed with the "Sir" title unless the person using it is at a minimum under consideration to become my slave.

Now on the other hand in the martial arts (at least the traditional pre-UFC martial arts) all black belts are addressed as sir by those of lower rank (this includes lower ranking black belts) and instructors are always addressed as sir, even by those who's belts outrank them. This has meant that when I was 15 I had 70 year olds addressing me as sir in public and it never made me uncomfortable.

P.S. - Sir-ing five-o while they are handcuffing you increases the odds that you'll make it to the lock up alive, or at least with a few less bruises.
- So does having your lawyer fathers business card next to your drivers license , police chiefs may look the other way about arrivng alive or bruised but draw the line at large dollar lawsuits. [;)]



califsue -> RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially (8/29/2008 12:45:14 AM)

My youngest sister lives in Florida and raised her son to call people Sir and Maa'm which he does in a very polite way. At 22, he is a polite young man and I did not ever think that it was socially impolite though I do hate being called 'Maa'm' by the 20 somethings at the retail stores.
Makes me feel way too old...Interesting Read....just goes to show that how and possibly where and how follows us and our perspective on life.



Evility -> RE: Dominants "Sir-ing" socially (8/29/2008 2:52:33 AM)

It's really sad... almost pathetic the way this "lifestyle" (meh) causes people the twist and distort interactions in every day life.



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