RE: The Economy, some good news (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid



Message


celticlord2112 -> RE: The Economy, some good news (8/27/2008 7:05:15 PM)

quote:

The only long term thing that is going to make things better is to force government to pay for itself-

How do you make an entity that produces nothing but requires a constant stream of tax dollars for sustenance pay for itself?

Thoreau had it about right:  "That government is best which governs not at all."




servantforuse -> RE: The Economy, some good news (8/27/2008 7:07:53 PM)

Grid lock is good......no new stupid laws get passed..




thishereboi -> RE: The Economy, some good news (8/27/2008 7:10:06 PM)

I can get you a 3 br for $9,000....not bad less than 1/2 of what I paid for my car.

http://realestate.yahoo.com/Michigan/Detroit/Homes_for_sale/result.html;_ylt=ApWpx_uVAH83WILfdvnPDCTnMrQs?typeBak=realestate&p=detroit%2C+MI&type=classified&search=Search&priceLow=0&priceHigh=10000&bedroomLow=&bathroomLow=&redir=1




Thadius -> RE: The Economy, some good news (8/27/2008 7:11:37 PM)

When I saw the price, I thought of Pontiac. [8|]

Edited to add:

I present a 3BR house for $800 and there is even a lease option. [;)]
http://realestate.yahoo.com/Michigan/Pontiac/Homes_for_sale/c2e5ab6969b88f52b943f5a34a7208e;_ylt=AvCAXaBtbNYst0_gWyEj1tznMrQs?cc=realestate&p=Pontiac,%20MI&priceHigh=10000&priceLow=0&nodeId=750007014&radius=&bedrooms=&bathrooms=&type=classified&sortBy=price+1&ltype=0




celticlord2112 -> RE: The Economy, some good news (8/27/2008 7:11:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Grid lock is good......no new stupid laws get passed..

It is a fact that in only five of the last 20 Congresses has the majority party been the same one occupying the White House.

Come to think of it, most of the economic growth Bill Clinton loves to take credit for occurred after Newt Gingrich and the Republicans took over the House of Representatives.  The economic expansion of the 80s was also in an era of divided government.

Coincidence?




defiantbadgirl -> RE: The Economy, some good news (8/27/2008 7:27:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverWulf

The question is often asked, "Are you better off now than you were 8 years ago?"



I don't think I'm better off.  Eight years ago, it rarely took me more than three days to find a job and I was often hired on the spot. I recently found another job so I could relocate and it took me almost a month!! I have eight years experience and they say we'll call you? Something is definitely wrong with that. The length of time it takes to find a job is a good indicator of what shape the economy is in. We're definitely in a recession. Until we get a democrat in the white house, the economy is not likely to improve.




SilverWulf -> RE: The Economy, some good news (8/27/2008 7:51:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverWulf

The question is often asked, "Are you better off now than you were 8 years ago?"



I don't think I'm better off.  Eight years ago, it rarely took me more than three days to find a job and I was often hired on the spot. I recently found another job so I could relocate and it took me almost a month!! I have eight years experience and they say we'll call you? Something is definitely wrong with that. The length of time it takes to find a job is a good indicator of what shape the economy is in. We're definitely in a recession. Until we get a democrat in the white house, the economy is not likely to improve.


Did you bother to click the link that was posted?

The economy is better than it was, and is steadily getting better every year.  We are not in a recession, not even close to a recession actually.

Your personal situation may or may not mirror this. 

The ease of finding a job has nothing to do with the economy as a whole.  That has to do with where you live, what you want to do for a living, and what the local job market is like.  There are areas where there are very few jobs available, yet the economy is booming, and the local unemployment rate is near zero.  Everyone who wants or is able to work is working, and most all the jobs are taken.  Unemployment is very low in many parts of the country and continues to drop. 

People who are whining about not being able to find work need to make a decision;  stay where there is no work, or move to an area where jobs are abundant. (not saying this is you, just a general statement)




DarkSteven -> RE: The Economy, some good news (8/27/2008 8:05:31 PM)

What a pile of crap.


The Pie Got Bigger
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Tuesday, August 26, 2008 4:20 PM PT
Economy: Average U.S. income fell when George Bush took office in 2001. Naturally, Democrats and the media unfairly blamed him for it. But now Americans are better off than when Bill Clinton was president.

I don't recall anyone blaming him for what happened when he took office.  Matter of fact, I recall him claiming 9/11 was really Clinton's fault.  Bush has been VERY adept at avoiding blame for his own policies.
 
What is meant by "When Clinton was President"?  I'm positive we're better off than when he TOOK office, but not sure we are than when he LEFT office.





Read More: Economy







According to the latest data from the Internal Revenue Service, average adjusted gross income in 2006 hit $58,029 in 2006 dollars. It was the first time that average income had exceeded the peak year of 2000, the year before incomes began to decline. The average income in 2006 was 1.2%, or $739, higher than in 2000, when incomes were swollen by capital gains from a roaring market, and $1,369 over the 2005 average.

Translation - since Bush took office, incomes dropped and it took six years to recover.  Also, when you look at the chart, it is not clear that results have been adjusted for inflation.
 
We've heard a lot about how Bush has mismanaged the economy, but there's no evidence of this. In fact, incomes began growing in 2003 after falling in 2001 and 2002 and have trended upward every year since. The small bump in 2003 was followed by gains of $2,291 in 2004 and $2,210 in 2005.




[image]http://ibdeditorials.com/images/editimg/issues02082708.gif[/image]Meanwhile, there's been only one quarter of negative GDP growth, the fourth quarter of last year, which was preceded by two quarters of 4.8% gains.
It can hardly be argued that Bush is responsible for falling incomes in 2001 and 2002, or that he's been a poor steward of the economy.

Why not?  He pushed through tax cuts that swelled the deficit.  Did they have no effect? 
 
He inherited a decline that began on Clinton's watch with negative growth in the third quarter of 2000 and again in the first quarter of 2001.

Agreed.  Clinton's economy could not be sustained and was followed with some declines.  But the economy sure did well before that.

A stock market crash and the 9/11 attacks hit incomes hard, as did a series of Fed rate hikes. The effects of the resulting slowdown continued until Bush's economic policies, especially his tax cuts, kicked in.

Huh?  A stock market crash and Fed rate hikes were unrelated to Bush's policies, but the tax cuts boosted the economy and he IS responsible for that?  Sorry, but you can't take credit for the positives and refuse to take responsibility for the negatives.
 
Thanks to a growing economy, Americans' real disposable income has increased every quarter but two from the beginning of 2003, when Bush's policies started going into full effect, to the first quarter of 2007. Some of the growth was remarkable, including a 7.5% jump in the fourth quarter of 2004 and a 6.3% increase in the third quarter of 2003.

So who gave the author the right to ignore the awful years of 2001 and 2002, when Bush began tax cuts?  Why did it take three years for his policies to "take full effect", or was that an excuse to call a mulligan on a 10% drop in presumably inflation non-adjusted earnings?
 
In November, voters will pick a candidate to replace a president who did an exceptional job of steering the economy through tough circumstances, but hasn't gotten a shred of credit for it. The best choice is the man who's more interested in increasing income than redistributing — and ultimately shrinking — it.

Sorry, IBD, but neither candidate will increase income.  Bush spent us all into a hole that will only be resolved by higher taxes or hellacious inflation.
 
BTW, I'd like to see the above statistics done by MEDIAN income instead of mean.  The mean income is skewed by the growing income disparity under Bush.




Thadius -> RE: The Economy, some good news (8/27/2008 8:10:55 PM)

Seeing as any budget that Bush took part in would have started in Oct of 2001, I feel safe saying that his budget decisions had nothing to do with the economy in 2001.

Just sayin.




defiantbadgirl -> RE: The Economy, some good news (8/27/2008 8:13:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverWulf

People who are whining about not being able to find work need to make a decision;  stay where there is no work, or move to an area where jobs are abundant. (not saying this is you, just a general statement)


Many areas where jobs were once plentiful now have very few jobs. Every day more and more jobs are either being off shored or are taken by foreigners with H1B Visas. There is no way to know which areas are temporarily booming and which areas will remain strong.  How many times should people have to move? Are you suggesting everyone that's working age should sell their homes and become like a traveling circus?




SilverWulf -> RE: The Economy, some good news (8/27/2008 8:27:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverWulf

People who are whining about not being able to find work need to make a decision;  stay where there is no work, or move to an area where jobs are abundant. (not saying this is you, just a general statement)


Many areas where jobs were once plentiful now have very few jobs. Every day more and more jobs are either being off shored or are taken by foreigners with H1B Visas. There is no way to know which areas are temporarily booming and which areas will remain strong.  How many times should people have to move? Are you suggesting everyone that's working age should sell their homes and become like a traveling circus?


Conversely, many areas that once had poor prospects for jobs now have an abundance.

Move as often as needed to support self and family.  The days of working for the same company over an entire career and retiring with a comfortable pension are all but over.  Staying in an area that is declining is irresponsible and idiotic.

Yes, there are jobs going overseas.  What you may not realize is that there are just as many jobs being created and/or being brought into the country. (of course this isn't being reported or acknowledged by the liberal media)  And no, these are not all minimum wage service sector/burger flipping jobs either.




Owner59 -> RE: The Economy, some good news (8/27/2008 8:31:47 PM)

"The ease of finding a job has nothing to do with the economy as a whole."


Oh really? Did you learn that earning your master`s degree in economics?


Declining wages(for the middle class,you and me) as wall street explodes.Is that the good news your referring to?


http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0199-5173187_ITM

Sure,corporate America is doing well.While the rest of America gets it in the neck.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_19950304/ai_n10075963

http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/ib240



Now that the neo-cons have trumpeted the good news(implying Bush gets the credit),are you guys going to take responsibility for the bad news?

Don`t bother answering.Everyone knows the answer to that one already.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/01/business/main4313184.shtml?source=RSSattr=Business_4313184


I could give a rat`s ass what a business journal has to say about how good the economy is.


Where the rubber meats the road is where people earn money and build good lives.


Middle class families and the income they depend on,is the frik`n economy.That`s what real to people.


I could give a rat`s ass about who`s still doing ok in these interesting  times.The measure, is of the totality of our citizens prosperity,not just one segment,or individuals.

The Great Depression was very real and wide spread.Yet my grandparents did quite well.They owned a car dealership,auto salvage yard,insurance agency,and dirt track racetrack.My grand mother sold the insurance and taught folks how to drive heavy trucks and buses.
They had a farm that produced food and feed hay.


Hey Bush defenders,count your blessings you`re doing well.The "let them eat cake"  tude looks awfully arrogant.



I hope McCain declares the good news too.Loud and often.It would make him look completely out of touch.




defiantbadgirl -> RE: The Economy, some good news (8/27/2008 8:34:04 PM)

Would you mind naming a few and telling me what areas they are in?




christine1 -> RE: The Economy, some good news (8/27/2008 8:38:19 PM)

yeah, let's put a democrat in office and let him skin the working class alive with public health programs and more aid to other countries, that's the way to go.   i'm not sure the republican choice would be much better, as far as i'm concerned the US is a little bit screwed this election.




SilverWulf -> RE: The Economy, some good news (8/27/2008 8:57:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Would you mind naming a few and telling me what areas they are in?


I'll name the areas I'm familiar with.

Texas, Oklahoma, Colorado, New Mexico, Kansas, South and North Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, Utah, Idaho.

All of these areas are experiencing growth and some are absolutely booming with oil and gas exploration.  There are thousands upon thousands of available jobs, most of them paying very well.  The jobs range from engineering to accounting, secretary to truck driver, and rig hand to geologist.

Mining is making a resurgence in Wyoming and some of the surrounding states as well.

All of these jobs have an effect on the local area, so more jobs are available in all sectors.

There was a report recently on the nightly news, NBC I think, about a town in North Dakota that is literally begging people to move there to live and work.

I drive a truck and most of what I do is haul oil field equipment from Texas up to the Dakotas and the surrounding States.  Every time I go to deliver I get offered several jobs without fail, when I refuse they ask me to pass the word that they are looking for help and then offer me the job again when I see them a couple of weeks later.

Most of the mountain west was suffering just a few short years ago, now there aren't enough people to fill the available jobs.  I have heard from others that the oil and gas 'boom' extends to many other states in the mid west and south.  I haven't personally been in those areas recently.




Termyn8or -> RE: The Economy, some good news (8/27/2008 9:15:31 PM)

To the point in the OP.

Is it actually the average, median or what income that has increased ? Maybe it's based on the fiftieth percentile. Whatever it is, a figure like this does not always show the whole picture.

Certain segments of society have seen increases by leaps and bounds. Many publicly traded large corporations make executive salaries public, but that doe not show the whole picture. With preferential stock options and other investments, they get dividends and whatnot. This is not reflected in most figures that are made public, now if they make their tax return public we would most likely see a different story. It all hinges on what the figures are based.

As I have written before, we need a manufacturing base again. The reason for that is because we need jobs for able bodied people who might not have the capacity to be a doctor or engineer or whatever. Sure it would be a nice country that would only have people with Phds, be the best designers and scholars, the best in technology and innovation, but for one we are not. For two even if we were, in a normal society not taken over by tyrants, free trade would not be a bad thing. In fact it would be fair trade IMO. Not free, but fair. If we had enough engineers etc., to operate worldwide, and job out all the labor, that could work.

All we need is enough of them to do this to support the service industry. It can be a difficult task though, when some people can't read their own diploma.

We need the kind of jobs that Henry Ford provided. Workers with some wherewithal to read measuring instruments, program a CNC, make things. Physically able to work in foundries and factories.

The reason money runs in families is not because of inheritance, it is because education starts in the home. If it isn't started early enough, the rest does not fall into place. That does not mean these people are useless, they are who used to be the middle class. Not engineers or scholars, but skilled in some way or another.

Mass production is a moneymaker, but all we seem to be left with is the service industry and some engineering. Even the car companies are struggling.

What I say is it not only that numbers do not tell the whole truth, sometimes they lie.

T




NeedToUseYou -> RE: The Economy, some good news (8/27/2008 9:59:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverWulf

The question is often asked, "Are you better off now than you were 8 years ago?"

http://ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=304643903414901

quote:


According to the latest data from the Internal Revenue Service, average adjusted gross income in 2006 hit $58,029 in 2006 dollars. It was the first time that average income had exceeded the peak year of 2000, the year before incomes began to decline.

We've heard a lot about how Bush has mismanaged the economy, but there's no evidence of this. In fact, incomes began growing in 2003 after falling in 2001 and 2002 and have trended upward every year since.

Meanwhile, there's been only one quarter of negative GDP growth, the fourth quarter of last year, which was preceded by two quarters of 4.8% gains.

It can hardly be argued that Bush is responsible for falling incomes in 2001 and 2002, or that he's been a poor steward of the economy.
He inherited a decline that began on Clinton's watch with negative growth in the third quarter of 2000 and again in the first quarter of 2001.






That's not really good news you know, those numbers don't account for inflation. They don't account for debt accumulation, either, and those quarterly numbers, are already computed annualized numbers. So, it's not 4.8% growth for the quarter against the cumulative sum of the whole economy, it is rather 4.8% growth if that growth continued for the whole year. There is a vast difference there. I'm not sure if you thought that or not, but I've read the report because it was refered to in another thread and that is essentially how it works.

quote:

The average income in 2006 was 1.2%, or $739, higher than in 2000.
So, if prices have increased more than 1.2% since 2000, and I'm 100% sure they have we are making less still as an averaged cumulative whole.

Adjusted Gross Income in the way the IRS uses doesn't infer adjusted for inflation, but rather after expenses. Define:Adjusted Gross Income in google.  So, unless there is some perversion of terminology no accounting for inflation took part.

I don't know what the point here is but we as a cumulative averaged whole, have less buying power than in 2000, according to that article. Unless you are saying inflation is less than 1.2% inflation total between 2000 to 2008, which is not the case at all. Actually, it is as possible, as me being immortal.




Archer -> RE: The Economy, some good news (8/27/2008 10:04:57 PM)

"...in 2006 dollars."

When a report claims the numbers are given in a set years dollar that means they have adjusted for inflation.




NeedToUseYou -> RE: The Economy, some good news (8/27/2008 10:08:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

"...in 2006 dollars."

When a report claims the numbers are given in a set years dollar that means they have adjusted for inflation.


OK, may have jumped early, I'll try to find the original IRS source. As that article doesn't fill me confidence, but I'll admit if I'm wrong.

Post back, later with findings.




NeedToUseYou -> RE: The Economy, some good news (8/27/2008 10:29:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

"...in 2006 dollars."

When a report claims the numbers are given in a set years dollar that means they have adjusted for inflation.


OK, may have jumped early, I'll try to find the original IRS source. As that article doesn't fill me confidence, but I'll admit if I'm wrong.

Post back, later with findings.



okay found the unadjusted numbers, and it appears they are adjusted for inflation. So, that is good news. I'm still wondering though what accumulated debt would do to them. But I was wrong on that point, about Income and inflation adjustment. [:(]

So ashamed, Second time I've been wrong ever. [8|]




Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875