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I would like some information about choking - 8/21/2008 12:14:15 AM   
JL9060


Posts: 8
Joined: 12/16/2007
Status: offline 		I am getting into a relationship and finding out what this girl is into and she brings up choking.

Everything else that she told me turns her on I find fun and exciting too (slapping, hair pulling, biting, subissive play) but this is the one point that I have no experience with and I am afraid of.

I have heard very bad stories about brain damage and death.  She does not like to be choked to the point where she passes out.  But with the way she veiws pain as pleasure I dont think that she would give me a safe word/ tap because she will be enjoying it too much.

I would like to know about some reasources that I could look at and I would also like to hear your thoughts and opinions on this.  I would never want to permanantly hurt someone or worse because of this kind of play.
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RE: I would like some information about choking - 8/21/2008 2:17:19 AM   
TwistedLeather


Posts: 189
Joined: 3/9/2008
Status: offline 		Three words.... C. P. R.

It's a very dangerous game to play, and you would be the one ultimately responsible for her welbing. From my perspective, there's really no real safe way to experiment with this. Find a mentor, someone who's had lots of experience with it. Talk to them, allow them to show and teach you... i guess.

And understand there are two ways of doing this. One, by cutting off oxygen. And two, by restricting blood from reaching the brain. Both can ultimately result in the same things...

Safe. Sane. Consensual!

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RE: I would like some information about choking - 8/21/2008 2:45:39 AM   
silkncarol


Posts: 318
Status: offline 		What my last Master would do is put his hand on my face pinching my nosed closed and covering my mouth.....alot less risky than choking someone out...but you still get the fear factor...which for me is what i find exciting....looking into someones eyes, trusting them..knowing you'll be fine....then the moments when you can't breath, the first threads of panic start to wrap around your brain..you wait, you hope...                                    .

It's amazing how much begging you can do only using your eyes........

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RE: I would like some information about choking - 8/21/2008 2:56:29 AM   
Guest123


Posts: 58
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline 		it can be very dangerous and i would not do it with someone i did not trust, but i love it, i love the feeling of the darkness closing in the rush as the panic comes in, the struggle even, knowing i can trust that special someone, but still needing air, the struggle between letting go and fighting for the first breath the last breath, not knowing which it will be... letting someone else decide which, and knowing that if it does go to far, they can bring you back, cpr is a must for those that play with life and death... above all conscentual is a must...
forcing someone to take over the control is not wise either if they are not ready... regardless of my experience with it, i know that there are some that will not, could not, don't want to take that control or responsibility, they have to have a level head about them as well, and not panic, or force,.... trust is the key here, and education... a must.!!!!

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RE: I would like some information about choking - 8/21/2008 3:05:49 AM   
angelynne


Posts: 65
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline 		I agree with the above posters.  It can be very dangerous and knowing CPR is a very good thing.  I used to LOVE choking, we did it by constricting the blood vessels that go up the neck to the brain, and I didn't get so much of a panicky feeling (having had panic attacks for years, I don't enjoy that) as I did just a feeling of darkness and slipping away... and then it feels SO good when you come back.  If I remember right somewhere in my research on the topic I read that the body has a mini orgasm when coming back as an automatic response, and that's what I loved about it.

Now, though, I don't do it at all, I don't have anyone in my life that I trust that much.  Good luck.

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RE: I would like some information about choking - 8/21/2008 3:23:38 AM   
DavidS8ist


Posts: 97
Joined: 7/8/2004
From: NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JL9060

I am getting into a relationship and finding out what this girl is into and she brings up choking.

Everything else that she told me turns her on I find fun and exciting too (slapping, hair pulling, biting, subissive play) but this is the one point that I have no experience with and I am afraid of.

I have heard very bad stories about brain damage and death.  She does not like to be choked to the point where she passes out.  But with the way she veiws pain as pleasure I dont think that she would give me a safe word/ tap because she will be enjoying it too much.

I would like to know about some reasources that I could look at and I would also like to hear your thoughts and opinions on this.  I would never want to permanantly hurt someone or worse because of this kind of play.


I'm *not* a doctor.

OK, disclaimer aside.

However, I *have* discussed this at length with docs, RN's, and paramedics, all involved in S&M.  All agree that the potential risks outweigh rewards.  There's no way to ascertain the degree of arterial plaque in the carotids.  Pressing on the arteries *may* cause the plaque to adhere to itself, restricting blood flow to the brain long after you release pressure.

Slight pressure on the trachea is probably harmless, but it's still a relatively fragile area.

A bit safer and a bit more controllable, something we use extensively, is breath play, pinching the nostrils and clapping the palm over the mouth.

But make no mistake, all if this is inherently riskier than flogging and spanking.

D.


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RE: I would like some information about choking - 8/21/2008 4:42:54 AM   
IrishMist


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quote:

but this is the one point that I have no experience with and I am afraid of.

This should tell you  right here and now that choking/breath play is an area you should stay away from.

Just my opinion though.

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RE: I would like some information about choking - 8/21/2008 9:03:05 AM   
Guest123


Posts: 58
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline 		if i never did anything i was afraid of.... i would never do anything... *laughs*... i don't concider myself a risk taker, but part of the thrill of doing it and getting to the other side, victoriously overcoming, however, i do like having someone to hold my hand and lead me, instead of shoving me through to the other side... *laughs again*.
fear can be a good thing, as well as a negative emotion....


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RE: I would like some information about choking - 8/21/2008 9:44:15 AM   
IrishMist


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Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Guest123

if i never did anything i was afraid of.... i would never do anything... *laughs*... i don't concider myself a risk taker, but part of the thrill of doing it and getting to the other side, victoriously overcoming, however, i do like having someone to hold my hand and lead me, instead of shoving me through to the other side... *laughs again*.
fear can be a good thing, as well as a negative emotion....


Not when that fear is centered around the control of life and death...literally.

He's afraid of choking her...he should not even be contemplating such play.

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RE: I would like some information about choking - 8/21/2008 9:52:13 AM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline 		To me, breath play is not a matter of overcoming fear as much as it is a very serious thing to "toy" with and the consequences are far more immanent than the analogy we hear all the time about walking out and getting hit by a bus.

Breath play is intoxicating and intriguing for that reason. When i find myself in the mood to be choked, i find that i rely a lot on the Dom to hold me back...once ive seen stars the first time, im pushing farther and farther ahead without regard for my own safety...its only for a matter of seconds, this disregard, but its not smart at all to allow that to go unchecked. Also not smart is that im a healthcare professional and really really should be anti breathplay.

Guilty as charged and hanging my head in shame...but all the while holding my choke strap out to see if you pick it up....i need some therapy.

btw...read the success rates of cpr and youll rethink if youre sane...and also important to note...cpr doesnt cure the complications you suffer from a stroke, which is what cutting off your O2 supply does as well as dislodging plaque in your arteries...

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RE: I would like some information about choking - 8/21/2008 10:16:45 AM   
BadJezebel


Posts: 138
Joined: 4/29/2006
Status: offline 		Is it breath-play/asphyxiation that she loves or the feel and threat of hands around her neck? 

If it’s the former, you have some great suggestions above.  If it’s the latter, here is what I have done.  At the base of the neck (make sure that you are really at the bottom), where it meets the shoulders, dig your fingers into the area right above the clavicle.  (There are pressure points above the clavicle that when pressed will cause a little pain.) While doing that, put some pressure on the jugular but, be careful that it is NOT TOO MUCH.  Angle the middle of your hand slightly away from her neck so that that it doesn’t clamp down on her and possibly cause some damage.

If it’s both breath-play and the threat of hands around her neck, do the above with one hand and cover her mouth with the other.  I just did this the night before last and his reaction was incredible.  If you (or someone else) need a visual image, I can try to ad one to my profile photos in the next week or two, just mail me. 

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RE: I would like some information about choking - 8/21/2008 11:08:58 AM   
JL9060


Posts: 8
Joined: 12/16/2007
Status: offline 		I knew this was the place to ask.  All of the scary parts worry me.  I have roughed her up a bit, put my hands on her neck for pressure, but not really cutting off complete air or blood.  I think thats as far as I'm willing to take it unless I knew how to make it safe, which I hear it can never be.

UFC fighters get choked out all the time, are they getting brain damage?  Do they have a risk of dying?  Again, she does not want to be choked out, just choked.

I know CPR, but I also know that it doesn't work most of the time.  I would never want to have to rely on it to bring someone back from something we did for fun.

I have covered her nose and mouth but not for long, but it seems what she likes is the choking aspect.

I do tust her, but she is a pain junky, so I don't know if she would know when to signal me to quit.

There are other areas of fun for us to enjoy.  She never had anyone pour hot wax on her before (you would think she would have done this before choking!) and she told me she got elated and light headed after we played with the wax and it was like the high she gets from choking.  So I guess we can always pursue other methods of naughty fun.  If she gets the same kicks from the wax then choking seems hardly worth it to put her at risk.

Thank you all for your information.

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RE: I would like some information about choking - 8/21/2008 2:54:08 PM   
BadJezebel


Posts: 138
Joined: 4/29/2006
Status: offline 		Be careful that you use the right kind of wax.  Some waxes melt at safe temperatures and others can burn the skin.  ALWAYS test it out.   Even different colors from the same brand can have a different melting point. 

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RE: I would like some information about choking - 8/21/2008 3:00:33 PM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

Not when that fear is centered around the control of life and death...literally.

He's afraid of choking her...he should not even be contemplating such play.


I don't quite agree with this- it's good to have some fear of choking your partner out. This way he's more apt to be cautious when he goes about it.


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RE: I would like some information about choking - 8/21/2008 3:06:40 PM   
IrishMist


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Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I don't quite agree with this- it's good to have some fear of choking your partner out. This way he's more apt to be cautious when he goes about it.

This is going to be tricky to explain because I absolutly go nuts when someone starts to choke me; it is, outside of guns and knives, my favorite passtime
I have only participated in this with one person and I can honestly say that he had no training or knowledge of it...he just reached out one day, grabbed my throat and squeezed...neither one of us thought that my reaction would be what it is. He was going for fear and instead it turned into something else.

That said...this is not something that I would ever...ever...tell a novice that they should try. It's just way too dangerous; too many things can go wrong and in a panic, you can make things worse. I don't care if you are the Chief of Surgery; breath play is extremely dangerous and to tell a novice...especially one that admits its not HIS kink...that all he needs to do is go slowly, take precautions, and learn the proper techniques does not sit well with me.

I understand where you are coming from; but I can not agree with it.

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RE: I would like some information about choking - 8/21/2008 4:33:16 PM   
secretsubnova


Posts: 22
Joined: 12/25/2006
Status: offline 		Mmmmm choking & breath play... these are a few of my favorite things.  My advice is to talk to some professionals about it (I say some because I think talking to more than one is important - some are dead set against it while others may be willing to give you some tips on making it as safe as possible.)  I would also recommend trying to find some people in your local area that are familiar or even better experts in this topic.  If you have a local Black Rose group or TNG or anything similiar I'm willing to bet you may be able to get some useful advice and help there.  I wouldn't by any means start choking your interested partner without first doing the necessary research and learning different techniques.  And yes, learning CPR is never a bad idea... hopefully you'll never need it but it's easy enough to take a quick CPR class at your local Red Cross or hospital and who knows when it may come in handy.  All that being said, some people will never approve of any sort of breath play and they're right - it's not suitable for everyone and there certainly are risks involved no matter how careful you are.  There are risks involved in everything though and just as "RACK" implies, it's up to you and your partner to determine what risks the two of you are consenting to.  Either way it never hurts to seek out some education on the topic - you may decide it's something you would like to try and you may find out it's not right for you.  To each his own. Personally, I can't get enough of it. :-)

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RE: I would like some information about choking - 8/21/2008 4:53:33 PM   
Midnght


Posts: 98
Joined: 4/24/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		  Well what you see in wrestling or ultimate fighting is not air choking it's a sleeper type hold IE cutting off the blood to the brain that makes them pass out. Not oxygen depravation.

"
Blood choke A blood choke or carotid restraint specifically refers to a choke hold that compresses one or both carotid arteries and/or the jugular veins without compressing the airway, hence causing cerebral ischemia and a temporary hypoxic condition in the brain.[3] Regardless of who the opponent is, a well applied blood choke leads to unconsciousness in 4-10 seconds, and if released, the subject usually regains consciousness in double the time the choke was applied after he had blacked out (e.g. Choke applied for 15 seconds after person passed out results in the person regaining consciousness 30 seconds later).[citation needed] Compared to traditional manual strangulation, properly applied blood chokes require little physical strength, and can be applied successfully by a comparatively weak person.[4] Blood chokes are considered safe for practice and application,[1]Judo, one death has occurred in the use of the blood choke.[4]"

although being a lethal technique when held long enough. In No matter what be it breath or blood choke you need to be constantly aware of what you are doing and the signs of your sub.
Initially try it out for very short periods.
Pillows work well while actually having sex. Hard to breathe through but not impossible and you control it Ie lift up let her catch a breath I'd love to give you some time frames but can't every ones different and you just have to do it slowly till you get a feel for what you are doing and the signs she makes at various levels.
I personally suggest never use a choke chain because it CAN get caught on itself and not instantly released. You can use a belt but again not through the loop don't tie a knot etc.I make something I call a choke strap you can make one yourself or heck email me I'll whip you one up for ten bucks. It's about 2 inches wide of nice 6-8 oz latigo leather and about 2 feet long with two O rings on either end on being small enough to pass through the larger O ring.

The nice thing about this strap is as soon as you let go it releases. There's nothing to bind it up and they can breath get blood etc and adds nice all around pressure to the neck.

persephonee mentioned hers it's made by me and never completely safe but much safer to use than other around the neck items. Hands are always best to start with as are pillows.

Fear should be there but you need to be mindful and cautious as well.

I can speak from experience on what it feels like to asphyxiate. I've gotten a cough so bad I couldn't get air I've passed out and hit the floor for the paramedics to show up and realize I'm totally fine. Is it weird hell yeah do I like it no way, but I do know what it's like and the signs of going that far. Luckily when you do pass out so long as nothings around your throat to stop you from breathing your body rights itself generally. Ie I stopped coughing and the body started breathing.

I'm not saying go choke yourself till you pass out but if you ever had such a spell as I did it would give you a good insight into what they are feeling.
The closest feelings in your head I could compare it to are the effects or large doses of nitrous. You get light headed and see stars. when you see stars you need to stop the sub will feel a little punch drunk and may collapse on you if you go to far you have to be ready to keep them form hitting the ground or their head. If they are swaying and slightly like they are going limp STOP immediately and keep them steady don't let 'em walk around or try to hold themselves up you do the work.

That's the best advice I can give from my own real world experiences.

Disclaimer: If anyone thinks I'm wrong or has a problem with what I have said sorry but this is my opinion and experience and I'm going to tell it as I know it you got your views I've got mine and I'm happy to leave it at that you should be to.

< Message edited by Midnght -- 8/21/2008 5:03:27 PM >

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RE: I would like some information about choking - 8/21/2008 6:50:12 PM   
JL9060


Posts: 8
Joined: 12/16/2007
Status: offline 		Interesting, I'd like to thank you all this is a great resource for information like this. 

I test the wax out on myself before putting on her, no burns so I guess it worked out well, and she felt light headed, she said like she feels after choking.  Is this the 'flying' sensation I have read others talk about?

I agree that I am worried about hurting her, but if it was safe it would be something I would consider, but it seems like most of the information is nowhere neare saying this can be done safely.  I have been rough with her, holding her neck, but neve with the intent of cutting off completly the blood or air, I was asking her how hard she wanted it to be. 

She didn't seem too down when I told her I wasn't into that and it didn't seem like a deal-breaker for her.  I just wanted to know about it so that I could figure out if it is something I would ever try.

Do most people who enjoy this like blood chokes or breath chokes, or both?  Do they both acheive the same result for you?

I am still pretty new to all of this stuff, it is exciting having someone to play with who just loves pain and roughness, I have played like this before but never with someone who is enjoying it this much.

Can any of you reccomend any websites that would have more information about choking dangers and saftey?  I should contact a professional, but I think online resorces could work easier.

Thanks again for everyone being very supportive and helpful.

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RE: I would like some information about choking - 8/21/2008 8:14:57 PM   
Alumbrado


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RE: I would like some information about choking - 8/21/2008 9:41:34 PM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
Status: offline 		Quick reply

I enjoy breath play, but do not play with choking by the neck. Besides the usual health/death risks there is a risk of bruising, the problems with visible bruising should be fairly obvious.

Dolf

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