RE: selfish bottom (Full Version)

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CreativeDominant -> RE: selfish bottom (8/21/2008 7:27:08 AM)

Actually persephonee, I see nothing wrong in what you have stated about yourself and your views of bottoming and of submitting. 
When I first began reading your thread, I admit the cynic in me said "Oh great...we get to hear from another "submissive" who is trying to explain why she won't submit and who is going to justify making the dominant jump through hoops first".  BUT...that is not what I read at all.  I read quiet explanations of what you see as the difference between the two, I read that you like for those topping you to receive pleasure from the equation (actually, as mist pointed out in her own admirable fashion, a less-selfish act than that of many bottoms) so that both are receiving pleasure of one sort or another.  I read of someone who acts submissively, in a restrained fashion, towards those who understand her desires and wishes and accept them without judging them...probably those who feel that she makes a clear distinction between the two.

My opinion only...but a great thread, in my opinion. 



persephonee -> RE: selfish bottom (8/21/2008 7:31:50 AM)

Thanks CD. ~blushes...



Midnght -> RE: selfish bottom (8/21/2008 4:26:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee
i just get upset when i hear words like selfish and narcissistic in relation to a person who bottoms i get my widdle feewings huuut.


Don't let that hurt your feelings because in reality there is a LOT of room for selfishness in the bottoming equation. When I have bottomed I am completely selfish in it. Bottoming doesn't always indicate a relationship or a person who only likes to give up control in the bedroom. It can also indicate the person taking the bottom role in a scene. There is NO submission in that.

I spent a couple years single after my ex Master and I split. To satisfy my own need for play I regularly bottomed to a select few dominant friends. But make no mistake about it, I wasn't submitting to them....not even a little. I was there to fill my own personal agenda....to have MY need for play fulfilled. Of course, that was made very clear to them....but not one of them was expecting anything that resembled submission from me either. They knew that I was there for my own purposes. Granted, they were there for theirs also so in that respect we came to a mutually fulfilling understanding....but was it me being selfish? Oh hell yeah!


mistoferin~

Thank you for saying that better than i ever could. While im single i will play. This in no way should color anyone's opinion of how well or whatever i could submit in a relationship. And, frankly, the people i scene with publicly are friends in day to day life, so i am not wandering around the dungeon presenting my ass to just anyone with a bullskin flogger and an attitude...altho....~WEG~

IDK...i do in my heart wish to be taken seriously. i take WIITWD very seriously and want nothing more than to find one person to focus on. Of course, he'd have to be willing to "grandfather in" at least 2 of my playpartners once in a while for old times sake.( i am only half kidding).

i think im going to at least add one sentence to my profile. i have tried to revamp that thing about one hundred times but when i read what i wrote i agree too much.


Kidding? Damn I don't want to lose you. }:>(  I'de be a sad Daddy then.



Midnght -> RE: selfish bottom (8/21/2008 4:33:44 PM)

Well I can say being one of those who (hopefully) would be grandfathered in. p is a wonderful person and knows what she wants and isn't afraid to let you know. She's also not afraid to say knock that off I don't like it. For a good while all I ever got from our play was my own enjoyment in getting a subbmissive off, but we've evolved a little form there. As all relationships will do. We played we made out I adore her. I will be very sad if we are to never be able to play again but that is life and I understand it can happen. Hopefully when she finds THE ONE they will be territorial but not so with me and realize I only want her happiness and what's best for her, my current relationship allows for me to enjoy others, but I'm dedicated and have more honor than some Dom's I've seen in my pinky than they have in their little pea brains, and i'm loyal to the one I have so I'd never work to remove her form a happy situation. I'd rather be part of their life adding flavor and spicy to the mix than seperate anyone when they are happy in love etc, but i'm well aware there may be a good long period where we may not play till their own trust is built towards each other and that can take a very very long time for some people.



persephonee -> RE: selfish bottom (8/21/2008 9:05:12 PM)

M~

Youre so cute.

p



MaamJay -> RE: selfish bottom (8/21/2008 11:49:12 PM)

perse, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders and also some caring "grandfather Doms"! In that you are way ahead of a lot of prospective subs! I would tend to think of you as a prospective sub, someone who is genuinely interested in the prospect of submission to the right Dominant, but who is choosing to broaden their experience meantime by bottoming to selected friends. As erin said, when bottoming in the context of play, there is something to be selfish about, it needs to meet at least some of your needs or why do it? The fact that you are wired in to it also needing to meet at least some of the Top's needs means you are not being selfish in a negative sense.

I'll give a real life example from My own past experience with subs:

sub A - lovely young lad, too young to be Mine permanently, that was understood from the start. he wouldn't be My sub, he would be My bottom for play only. I had no other control over his life. he and I discussed what he was interested in trying and what I was willing to do. There were a lot of things that meshed, some that didn't. First couple of scenes, I stuck to the things W/we had in common. Trust grew. Later on, I expressed the desire to do something he hadn't orignally been interested in (wasn't a hard limit though). his answer? "Yes i am willing because i want to see Your pleasure Maam". W/we did it and it was awesome ... and he changed his mind on it too! I also researched something he was interested in that wasn't on My original list ... surprised him with it ... it was awesome too! And yes, I was a convert! That boy was a wonderful bottom, NOT selfish, still friends even though he is now on the far side of the world. Before he went overseas, he found a Domme in his own age range and ethnicity and I was absolutely delighted for him. And yes, I was "Grandmothered" in ... She had no wish to sever a treasured friendship and thanked Me for all the good care and experiences I had given him.

sub B: started seemingly the same way as sub A. However, after the first 2 play sessions, he turned up late and sulky to the 3rd. When I decided to have him do some service to try to get his mind in some sort of focus, he refused and said "When are You going to do what i want? i said i wanted to be tied up and You haven't done it! You're not a real Domme" ... and flounced out. Good riddance I figure! I routinely do NOT do bondage on early play sessions as I want someone to know they can "escape" if they feel the need ... only when I can trust them to be at ease with it do I do it, whereas I might test their reaction to rope by creating a rope harness (as I had done with him in session 2). Now, THAT was a selfish bottom!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]



Owner4SexSlave -> RE: selfish bottom (8/22/2008 12:03:57 AM)

My mind is walking in two different directions with this on.

One is what I call a D/s relationship and another of what I considered to be an M/s relationship.

However, when it all comes down to it.  Everybody has their own needs.

Personally, I don't view such things as being selfish, meaning that it's too much to ask for in exchange.

A BDSM relationship or D/s relationship is still that, and it takes two people with similar mindsets and interests and goals to make work.

Some Submissives or slaves seek to surrender all and any self interests for their Dom/Masters.   Some Masters/Doms desire a submissive to do as such.  It's obvious that these kind of minded people are Great Matches.

Anyways, it's best to find somebody with a like mind as you.   That is not really all that selfish. 

I think I outright spilled it out on another thread, that I want somebody with interests in things besides me.   That I don't want to be the complete center of everything in their life.   Now, this can be applied in either M/s or D/s context.   After all, this is something I'm looking for in a partner.

There's something to be said for exploring the Depth of a persons soul.  To know what makes them tick and what does not. 

To be honest, this is just me and my tastes.   The world does not revolve around me, nor does anything I express, means there is a right or wrong way of doing things. 

Some people might consider you to be a Greedy Bitch..  I'm not of that mindset.



persephonee -> RE: selfish bottom (8/22/2008 5:48:22 AM)

~FR~
Thank you both MJ and O4SS.

i dont really know anyone else in my relatively small community who identifies as a bottom only. And it doesnt really come up unless im trying to explain to someone online what my level of involvement has been thus far in the life. Mostly it was a profile decision. What i found on the other side, was that i was getting the same mail from the "hng's" as all the other women on the site were, and was doing what any good sub would do and blocked and deleted. Now that im more established and shown no interest in the crap that a girl must slog through online, i get sincere communications from actual folks. (not in large volume, but quality always trumps quantity.) And i have a full dancecard as one of my Dom partners points out with a chuckle.

i am honestly going to review my feelings about my actions and heartfelt wishes and perhaps revamp my own profile...take the plunge, so to speak, and adjust my assessment of where i am.

What's in a name?

i have read consistent opinions on whether a person is submissive (adj) or a submissive (noun by popular use) and the consensus seems to be that a person is what they are regardless of the mirror of their partner. i think this may be a personal quirk of mine...when i was dating only women and relating only to women i didnt have one problem in the world as identifying as lesbian...but i never ever had a problem with men and would defitinitely get the "eye" when i would announce that amongst my peers in that community.
And i would have identified as bisexual but for the fact that i really never thought i would be with a man again. Once i found my interests evolving and my inherant personality traits coming to the surface and being given a name once again, i didnt want to make the same mistake and not be true to myself.
Thus the quandry. i personally dont need to use the word "bottom" in my day to day life, unless im presenting mine to someone in a most pleasing and submissive manner (grins).

So...i am going to continue on my merry way and as LA said...the ones who know me will know who and what i am. The rest can find out on their own when they get to know me.

i just dont want to miss a good Dominant potential partner simply because i chose my words unwisely. And as time goes by and i watch the relationships unfold surrounding me, im learning more and more each day about what i want and what i dont in my own future relationship.

Again...thanks to everyone for the comparative stories...i definitely fall into one catagory and not so much the other.

peace and play

perse

edited for spelling...



Skully7000 -> RE: selfish bottom (8/22/2008 2:47:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

~FR~
Thank you both MJ and O4SS.

i dont really know anyone else in my relatively small community who identifies as a bottom only. And it doesnt really come up unless im trying to explain to someone online what my level of involvement has been thus far in the life. Mostly it was a profile decision. What i found on the other side, was that i was getting the same mail from the "hng's" as all the other women on the site were, and was doing what any good sub would do and blocked and deleted. Now that im more established and shown no interest in the crap that a girl must slog through online, i get sincere communications from actual folks. (not in large volume, but quality always trumps quantity.) And i have a full dancecard as one of my Dom partners points out with a chuckle.

i am honestly going to review my feelings about my actions and heartfelt wishes and perhaps revamp my own profile...take the plunge, so to speak, and adjust my assessment of where i am.

What's in a name?

i have read consistent opinions on whether a person is submissive (adj) or a submissive (noun by popular use) and the consensus seems to be that a person is what they are regardless of the mirror of their partner. i think this may be a personal quirk of mine...when i was dating only women and relating only to women i didnt have one problem in the world as identifying as lesbian...but i never ever had a problem with men and would defitinitely get the "eye" when i would announce that amongst my peers in that community.
And i would have identified as bisexual but for the fact that i really never thought i would be with a man again. Once i found my interests evolving and my inherant personality traits coming to the surface and being given a name once again, i didnt want to make the same mistake and not be true to myself.
Thus the quandry. i personally dont need to use the word "bottom" in my day to day life, unless im presenting mine to someone in a most pleasing and submissive manner (grins).

So...i am going to continue on my merry way and as LA said...the ones who know me will know who and what i am. The rest can find out on their own when they get to know me.

i just dont want to miss a good Dominant potential partner simply because i chose my words unwisely. And as time goes by and i watch the relationships unfold surrounding me, im learning more and more each day about what i want and what i dont in my own future relationship.

Again...thanks to everyone for the comparative stories...i definitely fall into one catagory and not so much the other.

peace and play

perse

edited for spelling...


Personally I've noticed a MUCH higher ratio of tops and bottoms in the Fetish scene while more doms and subs in the Lifestyle scene...(but thats just a gross generalization)



KnightofMists -> RE: selfish bottom (8/22/2008 3:57:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

i am simply learning and wanted to know, especially from the veterans of this site, if by me identifying as a bottom reads automatically that i am selfish to such an extent that i would have trouble finding what i am ideally looking for....a D/s dynamic that works for all parties involved.

Thank you in advance for your time in answering. Please know that i approach with the utmost respect to everyone reading this post.


In a word... NO... it doesn't read or is perceived by me that you are being selfish.  In fact... I find your self-awareness and honesty of your current situation as well as you goals and ambitions to be very refreshing.  I personally don't see "Bottom" as a negative.  For many... Being a Bottom is a transition point for themselves.  Some of course are very content at being a Bottom in the BDSM scene and opening the door to the power dynamics of D/s or M/s relationships is not something they are seeking.  I have alot of trouble with those that seem to equate Bottoming or Topping in the scene as making themselves a Submissive or a Dominant.  That to me is no different than saying in a mainstream context... since I fucked you!... we must be Husband and Wife.    Just because a person bottoms doesn't make them a submissive personality or a submissive to the person they bottomed to.  However, it so happens that often.. Husband and Wife fuck!  Just like Dominants and Submissives will Top and bottom in the BDSM scene.  I find it sad that people have difficulty appreciating that BDSM and D/s are two seperate concepts/situations that often co-exist in a given relationship.  This makes it particularly difficult for new people into the lifestyle and/or single people in the lifestyle.

persephonee I believe that you are taking the steps that make sense to you and I think you should be complimented on the common sense that you are approaching this lifestyle.  I expect that many are going to look at your approach in a negative light... unfortunately you will find that they have very narrow views on how this lifestyle should be approached or lived.  I suggest you avoid such narrow-mindedness.  But.. many are going respect your approach and agree with it.   I think it would be best if you listened to more positive and open-minded ideals and not worried on how a few might few you from their narrow view of life..



persephonee -> RE: selfish bottom (8/22/2008 5:38:23 PM)

Skully~

ive noticed that as well.

perse



nwcutie102 -> RE: selfish bottom (8/22/2008 5:44:26 PM)

i like to be coddled and cuddled and treated well. when treated this way, i WANT to submit just alittle further, and alittle further..... is this selfish? some may think so, yet it seems part of the D/s dynamic to me.



persephonee -> RE: selfish bottom (8/22/2008 5:49:00 PM)

KoM~

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
i honestly do not pay much attention to people who are too judgemental in any walk of life...but especially this one. And frankly, its only anonymous folks online who occasionally challenge my place in the community and they are easily dispatched.

i just really dont want to ruin whatever chance i have to create a relationship with a quality person of the dominant persuasion over a poor choice in words. Which isnt really a problem as i see it as if he were to disregard me over one word, then he wouldnt be the man for me nor would he fit into my life in any positive way.

Thank you for your kind words. i truly appreciate them.

Btw....im sorta crushing on kyra...shes a hoot.

Be Well

perse



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