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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 6:29:01 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Which half?

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 6:31:44 PM   
Aileen1968


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From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		Ha.   Yeah Ok.  I'm curious.  Which half?

edited to add...great minds think alike Thad. 

< Message edited by Aileen1968 -- 8/18/2008 6:32:56 PM >

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 6:39:41 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
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Status: offline 		I don't know that I qualify as a great mind.  However, the same thought came to both of our minds, are you thinking what I am right now?  Let's just say it involves jumper cables, aligator clips, a battery, and fake skin.

I am hoping Barr can get his poll numbers up to 15% so that he has a seat at the debates.

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 7:32:43 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Unfortunately, it's true. Intelligent, nuanced answers just don't cut it in an election cycle. McCain does have the advantage of being a "ten word answer" type politician. (Actually, substatially fewer than ten words... about as close to a neanderthal grunt as you can get.)

"Drill here... drill now!" (four)
"Defeat it." (two words, about evil)
"Bomb, bomb, bomb... bomb Iran." (six words)
"I believe in President Bush's policies." (six words)

Yup, very intelligent, reasoned responses... for bumper stickers. Didn't we just go through 8 fucking years under a guy who had this same talent?

"I'm the decider."
"You're either with us, or with the terrorists."
"Mission accomplished!"

I think I'm ready for a big ol' heaping plate of nuance, thanks.

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 8:53:59 PM   
Steponme73


Posts: 552
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Status: offline 		Here comes Hillary!  Watch her take the convention by storm!

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 9:29:46 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		      I'm of two minds on how to read the story of the OP.  My first reaction is that it simply is part of the build-up to the grand moment of Unity at the convention.  Do these guys not know Obama has a book of "specifics" set for release in early September (IIRC)?  My instinct is to toss it in the "choreographed" bin with Jesse Jackson muttering about Obama's nuts.

        (edit:  Yeah, here it is...
Interest in him is so strong that even an upcoming policy book, usually the toughest of sells, is catching on. A compilation of speeches and policy statements by Obama and his campaign staff, "Change We Can Believe In," had reached the top 75 on Amazon.com by Monday evening, less than a day after The Associated Press reported the book would come out in September. )
 
 


    But we have the race factor.  I have no idea how many life-long yellowdogs are going to vote R before they vote for a (insert hate-speech here), but I know damn well there are some.  Many will be back, but not all.  Maybe these 15 Dem's are a lot clearer on the numbers.  (If nothing else, Obama's legacy in this election might be the number of people who find themselves looking a little deeper into own values and motivations)

     Then we have Hillary.  Nixon with a vagina.  Will she shred the Party out of spite and ambition, or just set a lazy tone in her support?

      The problem I'm having with calling the Dems on this one is becoming obvious.  I keep overestimating how stupid they cannot possibly be.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 8/18/2008 9:37:09 PM >

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/19/2008 4:41:39 AM   
housesub4you


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'll be as pissed as anyone, but I don't see how Hillary's nonsense could justify voting in someone who presumably stands for all you don't.


McCain has some good ideas, and does not stand for all I don't.  But of the two, I happen to support Obama, and if he can't get his shit together he may not have that either.

As for HC, she lost and she can't deal with it.  Hell just two weeks ago standing in front of 20-30 people she likes, see America still supports me for president.....Yea ok Hil

< Message edited by housesub4you -- 8/19/2008 4:45:07 AM >

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/19/2008 5:47:56 AM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Unfortunately, it's true. Intelligent, nuanced answers just don't cut it in an election cycle. McCain does have the advantage of being a "ten word answer" type politician. (Actually, substatially fewer than ten words... about as close to a neanderthal grunt as you can get.)

"Drill here... drill now!" (four)
"Defeat it." (two words, about evil)
"Bomb, bomb, bomb... bomb Iran." (six words)
"I believe in President Bush's policies." (six words)

Yup, very intelligent, reasoned responses... for bumper stickers. Didn't we just go through 8 fucking years under a guy who had this same talent?

"I'm the decider."
"You're either with us, or with the terrorists."
"Mission accomplished!"

I think I'm ready for a big ol' heaping plate of nuance, thanks.



Should have known you would take it this route...

We can shorten Obama's answers to everything too, and it seems to fit very well with his positions... "it's above my paygrade".
Oh did you catch the reason why he said he wouldn't have picked Thomas for the supreme court?  Not enough experience.

Enjoy the nuances,
Thadius

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/19/2008 6:36:13 AM   
DomDolf


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Status: offline 		Did the "it's above my paygrade" comment stun anyone else?



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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/19/2008 6:47:16 AM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

Did the "it's above my paygrade" comment stun anyone else?





It confused the hell out of me.  If he cannot make a decision on that one, especially since he has stated he is pro-choice, what other issues is he going to use the "it's above my paygrade" on?

How hard would it have been to say simply "At birth"?

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/19/2008 6:51:44 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

Did the "it's above my paygrade" comment stun anyone else?



        Taken in the context I think it was intended (ie;  I'm not God), it worked.  But yeah, he's really going to regret having had those words come out of his mouth. 

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/19/2008 7:23:13 AM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

Did the "it's above my paygrade" comment stun anyone else?



       Taken in the context I think it was intended (ie;  I'm not God), it worked.  But yeah, he's really going to regret having had those words come out of his mouth. 


In the context it didn't come off that way to me.

quote:

Q.  AT WHAT POINT DOES A BABY GET HUMAN RIGHTS IN YOUR VIEW?

A.  WELL, I THINK THAT WHETHER YOU ARE LOOKING AT IT FROM A THEOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVE OR A SCIENTIFIC PERSPECTIVE, ANSWERING THAT QUESTION WITH SPECIFICITY, YOU KNOW, IS ABOVE MY PAY GRADE.

and then he adds...

quote:

ONE THING THAT I'M ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED OF IS THERE IS A MORAL AND ETHICAL CONTENT TO THIS ISSUE.  SO I THINK THAT ANYBODY WHO TRIES TO DENY THE MORAL DIFFICULTIES AND GRAVITY OF THE ABORTION ISSUE I THINK IS NOT PAYING ATTENTION.



How would his answer to that question suggest humility.  Human rights is something he has claimed to fight for everybody, and yet deciding when a person is entitled to them is above his paygrade?  The simple answer for a pro-choice candidate is at birth.  Not dancing around it.

It couldn't have anything to do with his stance on the "born alive infant protection act", could it?

Just my opinion,
Thadius

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/19/2008 12:25:07 PM   
Vendaval


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Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I took it the same way, Rich.  Those who are on one side of this issue will hold the statement against him, those on the other side will be supportive of his position.  He does remember one of the cardinal rules of public speaking, know your audience.


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

Did the "it's above my paygrade" comment stun anyone else?



       Taken in the context I think it was intended (ie;  I'm not God), it worked.  But yeah, he's really going to regret having had those words come out of his mouth. 


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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/19/2008 2:19:30 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf
Did the "it's above my paygrade" comment stun anyone else?

I was. I expected a certain amount of dissemblage on the question--abortion is one of those questions that manages to defy finality (30 years of Roe v Wade and the issue still raises blood pressures on both sides). However, if taking a position is above his "paygrade", how can he justify even casting votes on abortion bills?

Regardless of whether one is pro-choice or pro-life, Obama's answer was gutless.

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/19/2008 2:24:56 PM   
housesub4you


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Status: offline 		Ya know CL

We don't agree often, but if Obama is pro-choice he should just make the dam statement and live with it.  Standing on the fence is the most fucked up place to be......jump dammit so I know where you are

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/19/2008 2:28:00 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
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Status: offline 		Ooooh... big surprise there! CL takes Obama's statement in the worst possible light! Film at eleven!

(So have you put infor your advance copy of "Obama Nation" yet? Should be some good "one handed reading" for ya.)

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/19/2008 2:39:05 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber
Ooooh... big surprise there! CL takes Obama's statement in the worst possible light! Film at eleven!

I take Obama's words at their face. If the decisions about abortion and when life begins is "above his paygrade," then he has disqualified himself from having the competency to cast any vote on any abortion legislatiion, whether pro or con.

Every vote is a decision. If any man lacks the standing to decide, he lacks the standing to vote.

Further, regardless of the metaphor one seeks to apply to his words, they are tactically unwise as well. Obama has offered up yet another sound bite that will return in due course to bite him in the ass. I can easily envision a battleground state ad with Obama's vacillations on the unfolding situation in Georgia, high gas prices, and even who will bear the brunt of his tax policies intercut with "it's above my paygrade."

As Obama himself famously opined in the primaries, "words DO matter."

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/19/2008 2:46:24 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Everything is PR, including the political threads on these boards. Even wars are sold with the use of public relations techniques. Needless to say, this phenomenon trickles into everything, including politics - it's nothing new: you must be aware that this is even more apparent during election times. You're another one of these people who's holding Obama up to a higher standard than any other candidate in history. Why, only you know .


You've got it kitten. Obama is in danger of simple celebrity...trying to be a Reagan. You know...a grade b actor that did a couple grade b movies and attained the nickname of 'The Great Communicator.' But, just what did he communicate ? Oh he said it's 'Morning in America again.' My kinda slogan...replete with substance and policy. All Reagan had to do was run against Jimmy Cater so all Obama has to do is run against MaCain...distortions and all.

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/19/2008 2:53:03 PM   
housesub4you


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Status: offline 		You're joking right?????  Trying to be Reagan, how could anyone try to be Reagan more than Bush?  Bush  never lived on a ranch until he bought one 6 months before he ran for the White House, because the GOP told him it would make him more "Reagan", do you think all those photos of him tossing hay where real????? 

Check the tax records in Crawford or ask Reagan's family who do not support Bush

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/19/2008 3:03:46 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		The really sad thing about this is that any of you people gives a flying duck's fuck what anybody else than yourselves think about abortion (and it's sad that political leaders should be put on the spot with it too). The subject's become like religion: a completely irrelevant matter to the really important issues that concern this country that gets discussed for purely mercantile and political means.


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