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RE: The Light - 8/16/2008 9:28:14 PM

Leatherist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AcademyForSlaves

My personal opinion is that if a person likes submitting and chooses to, and no one gets abused, then it's not wrong.

How do you determine something as being the "darkside" unless your admitting to yourself that it's wrong, bad, or evil?

I would never dominate out of anger. I don't think hate, anger, or resentment should be a part of BDSM. That's when a therapist is needed.

Projecting your own hate, resentment, and anger against others non consensually in the guise of "therapy" is the sickest thing to do.

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RE: The Light - 8/17/2008 6:51:19 AM

TysGalilah

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One of the more accurate barometers I have about my own personal growth and self-awareness is HOW I embrace...how I hug.
So, your post made me smile, because what it felt like I was reading, was you giving a warm, enveloping and accepting hug.............to yourself.

enlightenment....light....lightbulb moment...whatever you call it> when I knew a light had gone on somewhere in my head was when I stopped feeling the need to pick and choose which parts of me were acceptable/unacceptable and began to embrace all of me.

light dark            good bad         lamb lion

aggressive passive               happy sad           smart ignorant

rich poor               fat thin            slut prude

angry serene           sane insane       accepting unaccepting

          and on and on   ...and alot of what is inbetween each of those.

truth is.......they are all a part of me, if I am honest with myself.
and   > how well (unconditionally) I embrace myself ( all components of me) is directly connected with how I hug the people in my life..   and maybe visa-versa?

personally, I would rather be able to claim self-awareness than enlightenment.   It's much easier to shine a light outward onto others to "see a path" ...   but much more difficult to look inside to see where I need to go next.

I heard this line at the end of a movie recently and I keep thinking about how it relates in my life. ( I need to look up the movie and who said it)   It seems appropriate to what you posted...
   " The world will continue to tell me who I am, until "I" tell the world who I am "

Cyndi

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.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

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RE: The Light - 8/17/2008 7:15:34 AM

SimplyMichael

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quote:

A question, though. How does BSB help you work things out?

Perhaps it's also that you've been able to let down walls with her based on your mutual trust and love?

You answered your own question rather perfectly. She listens of course but over time I have come to trust that I can be open and vulnerable without her thinking I am whimpy/defective/weak/bad/sick or anything else. Pretty damn fine woman overall.

quote:

quote:

So... what are the right questions to answer?

Starting with this one would make the process a whole hell of a lot easier.

Look for the times when your reaction seems out of proportion. Another is when things that you keep asking for the same thing over and over but don't seem to be satisfied. Lastly, look for patterns in your behavior and ask why.

Those are signs that something from your past is fueling/controlling your behavior. Out of proportion reactions are often because you are dragging in some hurt or wrong from past relationships or even childhood. If you keep asking for something and your partner does it but somehow it doesn't scratch the itch, then you lack clarity on what it is you really need. Patterns of course...well if you keep picking assholes or if you keep destroying relationships with nice guys just as you realize you feel good, those are patterns you need to look back and find the root cause.

I recognize certain patterns in my bdsm experience, I had had three major bdsm related relationship and a couple of important but shorter term ones. Two of those are/were long distance and the third became so after we had lived together for a couple of years. The local ones were all short term secondary ones with women I wasn’t too invested in emotionally.

I realized that part of why the thought of losing BSB had driven me to such heights of panic and emotion was because I feared I would not or could not get another woman like her. So then I had to look at why I felt that way. Well, bottom line is that I am not in the place in life I should be, some of that is because I am back in school but CERTAINLY not all of it. I had to own that, to look deep into that mirror of self reflection and admit I wasn't the man I should be. That wasn't pleasant but it was true and in the long run, truth is far better than hiding. PLUS, for me, KNOWING why I or my partner feel certain ways, even if I hate the feeling, provides me with clarity and calm. I know what is going on and when I know I can fix it.

Growth IS possible, I have changed greatly but you can only do so if you are willing to be honest with yourself and then shut the hell up and work on the issue. Which means stopping to check yourself to see if you are on that path to the change you need to do and like all growth, one cannot predict where it will take you

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RE: The Light - 8/17/2008 7:22:41 AM

gypsygrl

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Counseling had an amazing impact on me, even though, for years I was very much against the idea. There's a point where a person is ready for that kind of scary inward looking thing. And its odd how much my psychic make-up resembled what you described in your op, although I was a little bit more subtle about it. (It never dawned on me to talk a female into meeting me gagged and blindfolded, with her legs open.) It took a series of crises to get me there--some crises were of my own making and other crises were just things that life does to you. But the culmulative effect was to basically exhaust me and my defenses and there was a lot riding on my ability to hold it together long enough to get some kind of help. It was time. I was ready.

I was lucky because I didn't have any health insurance so I had to find someone working on the fringes. I found the perfect new age spiritualist healer type who didn't believe in the psychiatric model. She's a talker and an explorer. If I had the time/money, I might have found someone more pragmatic but at that time in my life, I probably didn't need to be any more hard boiled than I already was.

And, so I spent a good two years exploring feelings. Even the one's I denied and refused to feel. Like fear.

quote:

My darkside is still there, still important to me but I couldn’t enjoy it as fully as I do without the light I have striven to shine into my life and will continue to seek.

This is one of those paradoxes of self awarness. It doesn't change anything. It only brings it to the surface so it can be appreciated and talked about and makes things more open and honest.

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RE: The Light - 8/17/2008 7:43:35 AM

NeedingMore220

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You've given me some things to think about, Michael. As have others on this thread. Thank you for being so open - it's much appreciated.

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RE: The Light - 8/17/2008 8:32:57 AM

cpK69

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I had been trying to put these thoughts together for a while now. Your post reminded me of it and helped me to finish it. So I thought I would share.

Tell me without words, the things I need to hear.
Reach me without touch, in those places that I fear.
Show me without sight, where the path lay through the dark.
So, in time I grow, and learn to listening with my heart.

Thanks,
Kimberly

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RE: The Light - 8/17/2008 8:44:10 AM

rookey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
I am that man not because of my darkness but because of the light I have allowed into my life. It is because of that light that I have the most amazing woman in my life. My darkside is still there, still important to me but I couldn’t enjoy it as fully as I do without the light I have striven to shine into my life and will continue to seek.

Yep there's lots of mileage in self-honesty. If you don't address what's bad in yourself, you will continue to lead a bad (unsatisfying) life. Be honest with yourself, a brave thing to do sometimes, and then you can address what it is about yourself that is making your life an unhappy one. Perhaps this is what they mean by Karma?

Michael you write alot of smart words, even if the font is a tad small sometimes.

(Edited to add the following:)

quote:

Maxwell67
This community is a great resource for reminding us not to fall for our own bullshit.

Very true. As indeed are other such boards/communities. I worked through my issues using the advices and postings of a Buddhist board.

I learned to step back from myself. I learned to look at myself from the outside so to speak. So insteading of looking at other people and thinking what a problem they were, I started to look at myself and think what a problem I was. How my world-view, attitudes and the consequent behaviour that stemmed from them caused grief.

Sure such introspection can be painful, we look at ourselves and see things and the lies we despise. This is unpleasant, perhaps painful even, so why do it?

You realise your life is a painful mess and you want out.

The more you want out, the more the motivation and the more the chances of succeeding. You'll seek the experience of others and see how they handled it. What questions they asked and how they found their answers.

< Message edited by rookey -- 8/17/2008 9:14:00 AM >

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RE: The Light - 8/17/2008 10:14:38 AM

kiwisub12

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When i started therapy i was such a mess that i couldn't do my work by myself. I had to have an unbiased person to point me in the way i needed to go. Now, i am able to do my own work, to be self directed. Its not easy to learn the language of self evaluation by yourself. Reading books and talking to a therapist taught me enough to that i could end therapy and deal with myself and my dark and light and how they interact by myself.

i went from someone who avoided "romantic" relationships like the plague - for ten years!- to being able to think of trusting my inner self with another, and actually going out and looking for someone.

There are great rewards for those who delve into the murky depths of their psyche.

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RE: The Light - 8/17/2008 12:29:02 PM

leadership527

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Michael:

I struggled with how to respond to this post.. it kind of wandered around. But if I was going to try to summarize what you wrote, it would be something like:

Hey, look. Among all the dark nooks and crannies, it's good to flash a bit of sunlight here and there. It's ok. My penis didn't fall off suddenly one day when I didn't unecessarily confront someone.

So I deleted about 6 responses and am getting it down to this.

a) I find it rather amusing that in the BDSM world, both in the limited real world meetings I've gone to and online, "goodness" is a concept that people feel needs to be defended whereas "evil" (or at least the pretense of it) is kind of cool.
b) Genuine darkness is dark. There is nothing "good" about it. There is no "I should just accept" regarding my dark self. Despite what various sorts of cultist leaders like to say, down is not up. You cannot fight a war for peace. You cannot be enslaved to win your freedom. Evil is not good. Dark is not light. I do not embrace my genuine darkness.

It's no surprise to me that the good things in your life have come from your light efforts, not your dark. We call that karma, neh? Sadly, it's the dark side guys that get to shoot that ultra cool lightning from their fingers and cackle... *sighs*

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RE: The Light - 8/17/2008 12:33:54 PM

SimplyMichael

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Funny you should post this because I was thinking along similar lines. WE go into the dark populated by demons, we are NOT the demons in the dark. At least I have no desire to actually be genuinely evil, wicked perhaps but not truly evil. So even if we are "dark" we are still venturing into that space bringing light.

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RE: The Light - 8/17/2008 12:39:45 PM

LaTigresse

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I wonder, do you think that alot of people, both people coming into BDSM and those on the outside looking in.......have an incorrect assumption that it is just that, all evil darkness?

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RE: The Light - 8/17/2008 1:20:17 PM

ExSteelAgain

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If you get off beating women, find women who want to be beat. Easy. If things get confused, go back to the basics.

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RE: The Light - 8/17/2008 1:25:43 PM

leadership527

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Well, I'm one of those "new people looking in" as it were Tigresse. It pretty clearly never looked like "evil darkness" to me. More like a bunch of high school tuffs play-acting at being badasses... fantasy darkness. I do think, however, that losing track of that causes a ton of problems. There is a world of difference between wanting someone who is "tall, dark and dangerous" and wanting to be in a relationship with Hannibal Lector.

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RE: The Light - 8/17/2008 1:56:15 PM

yourMissTress

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First, Michael, thank you for sharing your thoughts on your journey. I appreciate you being open and honest about your process. For most of us, it is hard enough to take that journey of introspection and really shine light in the corners of our hearts and minds and see what's there, for good or for ill. Then to take it a few steps further, and make attempts to change that which we find undesirable, accept that which we are unable to change, and come to peace with where we are in our journey at the moment, that is truly where things become difficult, challenging and ultimately rewarding.

I have been on a similar journey. I have found, the answer to be balance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I wonder, do you think that alot of people, both people coming into BDSM and those on the outside looking in.......have an incorrect assumption that it is just that, all evil darkness?

Excellent question LaT. My answer is yes, and no.

< Message edited by yourMissTress -- 8/17/2008 1:58:35 PM >

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RE: The Light - 8/17/2008 3:39:44 PM

NeedingMore220

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quote:

I wonder, do you think that alot of people, both people coming into BDSM and those on the outside looking in.......have an incorrect assumption that it is just that, all evil darkness?

Yes, most definitely I think a lot of people think that way, whether from the media, tv, movies, or even possibly fear of the unknown.

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RE: The Light - 8/17/2008 4:34:30 PM

oblige

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First, Michael, thank you for this thread. The whole yin/yang of D/s, with or without any kink is fascinating to me. Thanks also the the.dark, and many others..

Stella, your ramble was great! The below peice really jumped out at me. I am in a new D/s not much based on sex and not at all on kink relationship.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

"As we move closer towards the light we evolve and realise that BDSM isn't just about sex and our genitalia, but about control and mastery, both of ourselves and of our relationships. "

Thanks all of you! Be well, ~oblige

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RE: The Light - 8/17/2008 5:29:09 PM

MasterHermes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Funny you should post this because I was thinking along similar lines. WE go into the dark populated by demons, we are NOT the demons in the dark. At least I have no desire to actually be genuinely evil, wicked perhaps but not truly evil. So even if we are "dark" we are still venturing into that space bringing light.

Michael,

Every emotion you have in you, is shared by rest of the human beings living in this world. We all feel anger, fear, pleasure, we all have hopes, desires , demons and so on.. The problem of one of us is the problem of all humanity. Who is really free of fear, and anger, and inner deamons? We may have different contexts but the roots of the emotions are the same. We may be responding to them different. We might represent them differently , but thats the surface.

This is important , because we judge you, we condemn you, or we support you , we say he is a dark person, or this is light , but we never look at ourselves. We always prefer to face with problems over other people's realities. And here you are, saying I looked at myself and this is what I saw. Then it doesnt matter if you saw anger, or fear or demons. It doesnt matter because you are not running away from it, you are not justifying it, you are not rationalizing it, you are looking at it, you are facing it. When one keeps looking at it, duality may come to an end.

Hermes

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